YoloinOhio Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 Shanahan created the board for the Browns who ignored it and drafted Johhny Drunkball because a homeless guy told the owner to take him. where did you see that? The Browns paid a lot of money to a consulting firm to determine which QB to take in 2014, and the result was Bridgewater at the #1 spot. Clearly they didn't follow the advice of the consultants and took Manzeil.
jeffismagic Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 HOUSTON -- Kyle Shanahan admitted at the Super Bowl Thursday that he really liked Patriots backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo coming out in 2014 when he was offensive coordinator of the Browns, and a source said he had him ranked right behind Derek Carr on his QB list. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/02/kyle_shanahan_liked_derek_carr.html You can say he is making it up but if the Browns scouts know he is lying he will get called out for it and he has not. where did you see that? The Browns paid a lot of money to a consulting firm to determine which QB to take in 2014, and the result was Bridgewater at the #1 spot. Clearly they didn't follow the advice of the consultants and took Manzeil. Yes, they also paid for an analytics study that said Bridgewater. They should have listened to Shanahan.
thebandit27 Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 HOUSTON -- Kyle Shanahan admitted at the Super Bowl Thursday that he really liked Patriots backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo coming out in 2014 when he was offensive coordinator of the Browns, and a source said he had him ranked right behind Derek Carr on his QB list. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/02/kyle_shanahan_liked_derek_carr.html You can say he is making it up but if the Browns scouts know he is lying he will get called out for it and he has not. Yes, they also paid for an analytics study that said Bridgewater. They should have listened to Shanahan. there's always the "we liked that guy" stories after the draft. You literally never hear the story teller get called out.
Rob's House Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 I'm a little iffy on Cahomes. I realize he has a lot of potential but I can't think of too many guys who have successfully reworked their mechanics. He seems much more likely to be the guy who teases you with flashes of greatness but never quite puts it all together.
jeffismagic Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 there's always the "we liked that guy" stories after the draft. You literally never hear the story teller get called out. Cabot called the Browns to fact check, "and a source said he had him ranked right behind Derek Carr on his QB list." I'm a little iffy on Cahomes. I realize he has a lot of potential but I can't think of too many guys who have successfully reworked their mechanics. He seems much more likely to be the guy who teases you with flashes of greatness but never quite puts it all together. He doesn't need to rework mechanics. He does need to be more consistent with his footwork because he does do the baseball shortstop thing when he is scrambling. If he does that he becomes even more accurate.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 Cabot called the Browns to fact check, "and a source said he had him ranked right behind Derek Carr on his QB list." He doesn't need to rework mechanics. He does need to be more consistent with his footwork because he does do the baseball shortstop thing when he is scrambling. If he does that he becomes even more accurate. So because Jimmy G was supposedly 1 spot behind Carr that means they were 1 & 2? Funny, in the actual draft Jimmy G was the next QB to go after Carr, but 3 others went before them.
jeffismagic Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 So because Jimmy G was supposedly 1 spot behind Carr that means they were 1 & 2? Funny, in the actual draft Jimmy G was the next QB to go after Carr, but 3 others went before them. Thursday, Shanahan spoke to Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com where he confirmed that he advised the Cleveland Browns to draft Raiders quarterback Derek Carr or Patriots QB Jimmy Garoppolo over Johnny Manziel to no avail. http://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2017/02/04/kyle-shanahan-advised-browns-to-take-raiders-qb-derek-carr-over-johnny-manziel/
thebandit27 Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 Cabot called the Browns to fact check, "and a source said he had him ranked right behind Derek Carr on his QB list." He doesn't need to rework mechanics. He does need to be more consistent with his footwork because he does do the baseball shortstop thing when he is scrambling. If he does that he becomes even more accurate. I don't see any mention of MKC fact-checking that with the organization, nor does it say that he had Carr as his #1. Doesn't mean it's not true, but the organization also has no reason to confirm or deny it. All I'm saying is that we have no evidence that Shanahan or Cooter would be able to identify and draft a franchise QB.
Rob's House Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 He doesn't need to rework mechanics. He does need to be more consistent with his footwork because he does do the baseball shortstop thing when he is scrambling. If he does that he becomes even more accurate. I can't think off too many who have made drastic improvements with footwork and pocket presence either.
jeffismagic Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 I don't see any mention of MKC fact-checking that with the organization, nor does it say that he had Carr as his #1. Doesn't mean it's not true, but the organization also has no reason to confirm or deny it. All I'm saying is that we have no evidence that Shanahan or Cooter would be able to identify and draft a franchise QB. Mary Kay Cabot is a Browns reporter with tons of sources in Cleveland. She mentioned right there in the story that she confirmed the story with one of those sources. Look, I know many Bills fans assume drafting a QB is completely random. But there are top end QB people who know more than a Doug Whaley or McDermott about QB play. Cooter and Shanahan are two of the elite of the elite with understanding QB play. I can't think off too many who have made drastic improvements with footwork and pocket presence either. He has great pocket presence. Footwork can be improved. That is true. Rather have that than a guy that can't throw a spiral or someone with bad pocket presence.
thebandit27 Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 Mary Kay Cabot is a Browns reporter with tons of sources in Cleveland. She mentioned right there in the story that she confirmed the story with one of those sources. Look, I know many Bills fans assume drafting a QB is completely random. But there are top end QB people who know more than a Doug Whaley or McDermott about QB play. Cooter and Shanahan are two of the elite of the elite with understanding QB play. I know Mary Kay a bit back from my AP days And no, it doesn't say that she confirmed his draft board. The story says that a source said that Shanahan said he had Jimmy G behind Carr. Regardless, the semantics don't matter. Nothing can be proven at this point so there's zero repercussion for anyone trumping up their draft evaluation. And please don't generalize or talk down to other fans about what we may think regarding drafting QBs (or any other players for that matter). If you believe that Shanahan or Cooter has an eye for QBs, that's fine. Time may prove that to be true, and it may not. I don't have enough information to make a call on that. To say that either guy has a proven track record for identifying and drafting QBs is simply false at this point.
Roundybout Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/848922101226536960 Looks like we are having him in later. Might have to compete with the Jets.
jeffismagic Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 I know Mary Kay a bit back from my AP days And no, it doesn't say that she confirmed his draft board. The story says that a source said that Shanahan said he had Jimmy G behind Carr. Regardless, the semantics don't matter. Nothing can be proven at this point so there's zero repercussion for anyone trumping up their draft evaluation. And please don't generalize or talk down to other fans about what we may think regarding drafting QBs (or any other players for that matter). If you believe that Shanahan or Cooter has an eye for QBs, that's fine. Time may prove that to be true, and it may not. I don't have enough information to make a call on that. To say that either guy has a proven track record for identifying and drafting QBs is simply false at this point. It's right there in black and white. Shanahan talked up his board at the Superbowl and Cabot's source confirmed it.
PIZ Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 Did we know this?: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000797024/article/report-patrick-mahomes-works-out-for-new-york-jets
Maury Ballstein Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 It's obvious, man. The media is trying to force-feed us Trubisky and Kizer as first-rounders. That's a bad sign. Teams are going to overdraft these guys, as usual. I just hope the Bills don't panick and make that mistake again. They need good starters in the 1st and 2nd. Trubisky doesn't need hype. He ran as fast as Watson and is insanely accurate. He will be a monster at the end of the day.
jeffismagic Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Trubisky doesn't need hype. He ran as fast as Watson and is insanely accurate. He will be a monster at the end of the day. If the Bills pass on Trubisky and the Browns take him at 12 then everyone's seat at One Bills Drive will get red hot if the Browns win similar games with a rookie while we win 5-6 games with Tyrod a veteran who will cost 18 million next year and who is what he is. Edited April 3, 2017 by jeffismagic
LeGOATski Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 TTrubisky... is insanely accurate. So accurate, that it's insane? Awesome! But, is it epic?
KOKBILLS Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) He has great pocket presence. Footwork can be improved. That is true. Rather have that than a guy that can't throw a spiral or someone with bad pocket presence. Exactly... IMHO what is going on with Mahomes by some folks is not all that different (in a general way) than what happened with A Rodgers, Carr, and Russell Wilson...Over-analysis promoting paralysis... I just don't believe in micro-scouting QB's...When you have the God given talent Mahomes has it's the intangibles that are going to matter a hell of a lot more than the footwork...And his footwork will improve once he gets about 100 million reps as a Pro anyway... What I see when I watch Mahomes is a guy with tremendous confidence and swagger who can sling it...He has elite arm talent and he's not a dummy...Is he perfect? Hell no...Who is? But the comparisons to Cutler make me laugh a bit...Mahomes is more cerebral...I'll just leave it at that...He's football smart and he's confident...But I don't see him as an overly cocky or disrespectful kid...He just knows he's real good and he works hard at it... What I really, really, love when I watch Mahomes is that his head is constantly up and his disregard for, along with his ability to avoid, the pass rush and pressure is...IMHO...incredible...It's elite...It's better than most NFL QB's already...And when I'm studying QB prospects that is the #1 thing I look at assuming the kid already has the necessary boxes checked (arm strength, accuracy, ability to read Defenses and work through progressions, field leadership, etc)...Can the QB keep his eyes down field while moving to create more time?...Or...Do they see the rush and just pull it down to run?...Or worse yet do they flat out panic?...I've seen fear of pass rush and eyes dropping kill plenty of good QB prospects over the years...Including a few right here in Buffalo...I think it's a HUGE factor, and Mahomes is SO good in this area...He was only sacked on 4.6% of his passing attempts (that same % would put him at #11 overall in NFL history) over the past two years at Tech...And that's while facing Defenses that were pretty much assuming Pass on most downs... So...considering there is absolutely no such thing as a 100% sure fire QB prospect anyway, I think taking a chance on a QB with the total package Mahomes brings to the table is literally a no-brainer...It's ALWAYS a risk to take a QB...Always...But with Mahomes the reward could be outstanding... Edited April 3, 2017 by KOKBILLS
Chuck Wagon Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 The last couple of weeks it seems Mahomes has really turned into the hot guy. It's starting to feel like we might not even get a shot at him with pick #10.
jeffismagic Posted April 3, 2017 Posted April 3, 2017 Exactly... IMHO what is going on with Mahomes by some folks is not all that different (in a general way) than what happened with A Rodgers, Carr, and Russell Wilson...Over-analysis promoting paralysis... I just don't believe in micro-scouting QB's...When you have the God given talent Mahomes has it's the intangibles that are going to matter a hell of a lot more than the footwork...And his footwork will improve once he gets about 100 million reps as a Pro anyway... What I see when I watch Mahomes is a guy with tremendous confidence and swagger who can sling it...He has elite arm talent and he's not a dummy...Is he perfect? Hell no...Who is? But the comparisons to Cutler make me laugh a bit...Mahomes is more cerebral...I'll just leave it at that...He's football smart and he's confident...But I don't see him as an overly cocky or disrespectful kid...He just knows he's real good and he works hard at it... What I really, really, love when I watch Mahomes is that his head is constantly up and his disregard for, along with his ability to avoid, the pass rush and pressure is...IMHO...incredible...It's elite...It's better than most NFL QB's already...And when I'm studying QB prospects that is the #1 thing I look at assuming the kid already has the necessary boxes checked (arm strength, accuracy, ability to read Defenses and work through progressions, field leadership, etc)...Can the QB keep his eyes down field while moving to create more time?...Or...Do they see the rush and just pull it down to run?...Or worse yet do they flat out panic?...I've seen fear of pass rush and eyes dropping kill plenty of good QB prospects over the years...Including a few right here in Buffalo...I think it's a HUGE factor, and Mahomes is SO good in this area...He was only sacked on 4.6% of his passing attempts (that same % would put him at #11 overall in NFL history) over the past two year at Tech...And that's while facing Defenses that were pretty much assuming Pass on most downs... So...considering there is absolutely no such thing as a 100% sure fire QB prospect anyway, I think taking a chance on a QB with the total package Mahomes brings to the table is literally a no-brainer...It's ALWAYS a risk to take a QB...Always...But with Mahomes the reward could be outstanding... Great stuff. I do understand the Cosell point of view where mechanics and process can scare people. But Mahomes has imperfect mechanics for a couple of reasons. The baseball background and the insane arm that allows him to not have to step into throws. I am a gambler so I go with Mahomes. Too many teams out there and if you hit a bullseye with him the franchise is changed. Corners, linebackers, and WR's can't do that like a QB can.
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