GunnerBill Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) And you don't draft a QB high in a draft class where the draft is loaded everywhere but QB is the weak link. Interestingly I have just listened to Schopp and Bulldog interviewing the guy who runs PFF. His view on this draft corresponds with mine - if is not loaded with elite talent (I only have 2 more 1st round grades than I had last year) but it is deep and there are guys who would normally be day 2 value who will go deep into day 3. That is absolutely how I see it. He also took the view that the 4 Quarterbacks were in line talent wise with the two who were overdrafted 1st and 2nd overall in 2016 and that the 2018 class all have their own issues too and teams shouldn't wait expecting that class to be the silver bullet. Now if you subscribe to that view... that this draft is not elite player heavy but has really good depth at a number of spots (which I happen to) then I think that strengthens the case for a QB at 10, because you can find a safety and a corner and linebacker to contribute immediately in 2017 if you want to through days 2 and 3. I have previously said I think there are 8 elite players in this class... I actually think there might be 4 - Garrett and the 3 DBs and 4 very very good players (Allen, Foster and the 2 WRs). Edited March 29, 2017 by GunnerBill
JohnC Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 Its actually 16 years, but whose counting Weird...the Bills offense the last 2 years are the highest scoring 2 years in Bills history outside the first 3 SB runs. Even higher scoring than 3rd and 4th SB years combined. But hey, people still seem to think passing yards matter more than Points around here, so theres that. And you don't draft a QB high in a draft class where the draft is loaded everywhere but QB is the weak link. Sorry, its just stupid to do that. How did overdrafting at QB work out for the Bills thus far? All EPIC failures. Why, because its STUPID to reach for QB's and pass up better talent at positions we don't even have a starter at yet. Especially when fielding a high scoring, run oriented offense already that outscored most the playoff teams this year. Offense and scoring are NOT our biggest issues. PERIOD. No amount of rants can change that. It's actually closer to twenty three years for non-playoff participation. I'm simply making a conservative projection based on how this organization functions. The Bills don't have a legitimate franchise qb on its roster. It has been that way for almost twenty years which unsurprisingly corresponds to the period of time it hasn't made the playoffs. I agree with you that this is a rich draft class. That is an argument that using a first round pick on a good qb prospect is not a major gamble or a wasteful pick . Where I fundamentally disagree with and is the basis of our competing stances is that I disagree with you on the assessment of this qb class. It is acknowledged that none of them will be ready to start in their rookie year but that doesn't mean that ultimately some of them won't eventually be good franchise qbs. Just think if the Bills would have drafted Derek Carr or Russell Wilson or Cousins or Prescott or Dalton how the perception and prospects for this franchise would be dramatically different? You are making the mistake that is often made when evaluating qbs in that you are excessively scrutinizing prospects to the extent that you are allowing the pursuit of perfection to be the enemy of the good. What has condemned this franchise to wretched historical mediocrity is its failure to act when opportunities existed. By recommending a dithering approach on the qb issue you are promoting a status quo approach that has this backwater stuck in the muck of mediocrity. Maybe that's the road you want to take but not I. I want the Bills to pick the best quarterback available except if it is E J Manuel or Trent Edwards then don't pick them. I want the Bills to trade up if necessary for a QB unless it is J P Losman, then I don't want them to trade. I want the Bills to trade for a promising young QB unless it is Rob Johnson, then don't bother. I want the Bills to take a flyer on free agent QB's unless it is Doug Flutie, Tavaris Jackson, Matt Flynn or Ryan Fitzpatrick. I want them to draft Russell Wilson or other later round starting QB's that were passed over by 80 draft picks because it turns out they are really good. And then I want to remind everyone that we have not made the playoffs in 18 years because I am pretty sure that people posting on a Bills message board do not remember that, even if it has only been 16, so I think it bears repeating in every post. The EJ pick was simply a bad pick. He was a third to fourth round talent who was selected in the first round. It was a gross mis-evaluation. If your solution to not making a mistake when drafting a qb is not to take a qb then you that is a novel approach to take. Thanks for such innovative thinking.
GunnerBill Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Just think if the Bills would have drafted Derek Carr or Russell Wilson or Cousins or Prescott or Dalton how the perception and prospects for this franchise would be dramatically different?Not sure I would have Dalton in there with those others. Dalton made the playoffs with great weapons, a good line and a top defense. First the defense stuttered, then his weapons diminished and now his line is decimated. He was average last year and suffers from some of the same problems as Tyrod. Put Taylor on those early Dalton years Bengals teams with two coordinator and a QB Coach who are current serving Head Coaches and I think Tyrod has 4 playoff appearances and no wins too. EDIT: not disagreeing with your point I just think Dalton is a similar can do it when everything around him is favourable the same as Tyrod. Edited March 30, 2017 by GunnerBill
JaCrispy Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 It's actually closer to twenty three years for non-playoff participation. I'm simply making a conservative projection based on how this organization functions. The Bills don't have a legitimate franchise qb on its roster. It has been that way for almost twenty years which unsurprisingly corresponds to the period of time it hasn't made the playoffs. I agree with you that this is a rich draft class. That is an argument that using a first round pick on a good qb prospect is not a major gamble or a wasteful pick . Where I fundamentally disagree with and is the basis of our competing stances is that I disagree with you on the assessment of this qb class. It is acknowledged that none of them will be ready to start in their rookie year but that doesn't mean that ultimately some of them won't eventually be good franchise qbs. Just think if the Bills would have drafted Derek Carr or Russell Wilson or Cousins or Prescott or Dalton how the perception and prospects for this franchise would be dramatically different? You are making the mistake that is often made when evaluating qbs in that you are excessively scrutinizing prospects to the extent that you are allowing the pursuit of perfection to be the enemy of the good. What has condemned this franchise to wretched historical mediocrity is its failure to act when opportunities existed. By recommending a dithering approach on the qb issue you are promoting a status quo approach that has this backwater stuck in the muck of mediocrity. Maybe that's the road you want to take but not I. The EJ pick was simply a bad pick. He was a third to fourth round talent who was selected in the first round. It was a gross mis-evaluation. If your solution to not making a mistake when drafting a qb is not to take a qb then you that is a novel approach to take. Thanks for such innovative thinking. The bolded part times 1000...really excellent stuff.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Interestingly I have just listened to Schopp and Bulldog interviewing the guy who runs PFF. His view on this draft corresponds with mine - if is not loaded with elite talent (I only have 2 more 1st round grades than I had last year) but it is deep and there are guys who would normally be day 2 value who will go deep into day 3. That is absolutely how I see it. He also took the view that the 4 Quarterbacks were in line talent wise with the two who were overdrafted 1st and 2nd overall in 2016 and that the 2018 class all have their own issues too and teams shouldn't wait expecting that class to be the silver bullet. Now if you subscribe to that view... that this draft is not elite player heavy but has really good depth at a number of spots (which I happen to) then I think that strengthens the case for a QB at 10, because you can find a safety and a corner and linebacker to contribute immediately in 2017 if you want to through days 2 and 3. I have previously said I think there are 8 elite players in this class... I actually think there might be 4 - Garrett and the 3 DBs and 4 very very good players (Allen, Foster and the 2 WRs). It's actually closer to twenty three years for non-playoff participation. I'm simply making a conservative projection based on how this organization functions. The Bills don't have a legitimate franchise qb on its roster. It has been that way for almost twenty years which unsurprisingly corresponds to the period of time it hasn't made the playoffs. I agree with you that this is a rich draft class. That is an argument that using a first round pick on a good qb prospect is not a major gamble or a wasteful pick . Where I fundamentally disagree with and is the basis of our competing stances is that I disagree with you on the assessment of this qb class. It is acknowledged that none of them will be ready to start in their rookie year but that doesn't mean that ultimately some of them won't eventually be good franchise qbs. Just think if the Bills would have drafted Derek Carr or Russell Wilson or Cousins or Prescott or Dalton how the perception and prospects for this franchise would be dramatically different? You are making the mistake that is often made when evaluating qbs in that you are excessively scrutinizing prospects to the extent that you are allowing the pursuit of perfection to be the enemy of the good. What has condemned this franchise to wretched historical mediocrity is its failure to act when opportunities existed. By recommending a dithering approach on the qb issue you are promoting a status quo approach that has this backwater stuck in the muck of mediocrity. Maybe that's the road you want to take but not I. Lets be clear, I am a BIG fan of drafting QB's and have advocated forever here to do so. I just don't share the final conclusion you share on Tyrod...its that simple. You both feel that TT is awful and can't get better. I on the other hand just watched our offense average over 26 points per game with Tyrod under center, hit 25 points 10 times in his 15 games, and do so despite not having much to throw to, having an OC switch in week 2, and overall inept structure around him in just his 2nd season as a QB. I have also watched him make plays that few, if any, other QB's in the NFL right now could make. Yes, he has a lot to work on, but you guys all over look something very critical as to why there may be room for him to grow as a passer....TRUST. Do not under estimate the importance of trust for a QB in his receiving options, especially when he is a dual threat QB. TT has clearly established trust with Sammy, and when Sammy was healthy after the bye week in 2015, him and TT had a great connection and deep ball game those 9 games to end the season. Tyrods BIGGEST issue is that he doesn't pull the trigger enough or take enough chances and is quick to pull the ball down and run. However, when Sammy is at full strength he certainly treats him differently and does take more shots. Woods and the rest of the WR group are nothing close to Sammy, and what I saw with Tyrod is that he seemed to trust his legs more than he did his WR's and would be quick to pull the ball down to run and missed seeing guys open down field. Clay is a perfect example...never have I cursed at my TV so much over a TE than I did this year...Clay dogged out a lot of plays and failed to make plays because of it. Thats the kind of thing that keeps a QB from looking your way or making a tough throw. So while I, and everyone else fully acknowledge that Tyrod needs to improve this year, we are also fully aware that there is a lot of things around him improving already (better WR group, better coaching, and most importantly hopefully a healthy Sammy) and he has done enough to warrant optimism that he could improve. We also know that when you average 26 points per game, and give up over 25 points per game...defense is a bigger issue than scoring. So while Tyrod still has something to prove, he was far from our biggest problem. Even a modest improvement on D we would have made the playoffs this year. And we lost BOTH our top 2 draft picks on D last year for part or all of the season, our best DL for half the season, our best communicator for most the season in AW (and our only decent safety), etc. McDermott alone should help the D rebound plus we get Shaq, Rags, Dareus, etc back and added better Safety already and probably more S talent in Draft. There is a lot to be optimistic about in terms of our D improving compared to last 2 years. GO Bills.... PS: The most annoying thing is that there are people here who literally make things up to discredit real successes and production by Tyrod to fill their agenda...FireChan, Ryan Billz, etc. No one cares they don't like Tyrod, but there absolute declaration that they are right and the lengths they go to prove it is absurd. No one knows what will happen, but what we do know is that FireChan and Ryan just like this year will root and cheer for Tyrod to fail like they did last year. They don't come on and prop him up when he has a good game or does something impressive...they stay quiet. But when something bad happens, they are the most active posters here in Shout box and board...and I am pretty sure the community around here is getting sick of it. Peace...and GO BILLS Edited March 30, 2017 by Alphadawg7
JaCrispy Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 Not sure I would have Dalton in there with those others. Dalton made the playoffs with great weapons, a good line and a top defense. First the defense stuttered, then his weapons diminished and now his line is decimated. He was average last year and suffers from some of the same problems as Tyrod. Put Taylor on those early Dalton years Bengals teams with two coordinator and a QB Coach who are current serving Head Coaches and I think Tyrod has 4 playoff appearances and no wins too. EDIT: not disagreeing with your point I just think Dalton is a similar can do it when everything around him is favourable the same as Tyrod. Not sure I would have Dalton in there with those others. Dalton made the playoffs with great weapons, a good line and a top defense. First the defense stuttered, then his weapons diminished and now his line is decimated. He was average last year and suffers from some of the same problems as Tyrod. Put Taylor on those early Dalton years Bengals teams with two coordinator and a QB Coach who are current serving Head Coaches and I think Tyrod has 4 playoff appearances and no wins too. EDIT: not disagreeing with your point I just think Dalton is a similar can do it when everything around him is favourable the same as Tyrod. I think I would include Dalton...a few years ago, before he broke his hand, he was playing at an elite level...I remember hearing several people say he was playing almost as good as Brady...now, has he regressed in the playoffs? yes...but the guy knows how to play the QB position very well...and plays with a grit and toughness you don't see in most QBs imo.
JohnC Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 Not sure I would have Dalton in there with those others. Dalton made the playoffs with great weapons, a good line and a top defense. First the defense stuttered, then his weapons diminished and now his line is decimated. He was average last year and suffers from some of the same problems as Tyrod. Put Taylor on those early Dalton years Bengals teams with two coordinator and a QB Coach who are current serving Head Coaches and I think Tyrod has 4 playoff appearances and no wins too. EDIT: not disagreeing with your point I just think Dalton is a similar can do it when everything around him is favourable the same as Tyrod. I disagree with your comparison between Dalton and TT. I put Dalton in the category of being an average franchise qb, but a franchise qb. He will never be an all pro caliber qb but he is a qb who can function in a well rounded offense using all parts of the field. I also listened to the same interview you referred to on WGR. I agree with his assessments of the top qb prospects in this draft and how he compared it to the prior and next draft. The top four prospects are not elite prospects but are good prospects. As you stated and Alphadoggie stated this is a rich draft in which good prospects can be had in the following rounds. That is an argument for taking a qb this year.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 You want something to laugh about? The Bills have not had a franchise qb for over 20 years. Do you want to hear something else that is really hilarious? The Bills have not made the playoffs for 18 consecutive years and still counting in a system designed for parity. You want to hear even more comical material? The Bills have a history of passing on good qb prospects that other teams are willing to select and move forward with. There is a good chance that the Bills will be in a position to take the first qb in this draft. The odds are nil that they will select a qb in a high round. That's what the Bills do. That's why they are one of the least successful franchises in modern time. Some people might consider that to be a laughable situation and others not so much. This post ROCKS! Well freaking done, John. Get a quarter back already and stop fooling yourselves pretending a Fitz or a Tyrod is good enough
JohnC Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 Lets be clear, I am a BIG fan of drafting QB's and have advocated forever here to do so. I just don't share the final conclusion you share on Tyrod...its that simple. You both feel that TT is awful and can't get better. I on the other hand just watched our offense average over 26 points per game with Tyrod under center, hit 25 points 10 times in his 15 games, and do so despite not having much to throw to, having an OC switch in week 2, and overall inept structure around him in just his 2nd season as a QB. I have also watched him make plays that few, if any, other QB's in the NFL right now could make. Yes, he has a lot to work on, but you guys all over look something very critical as to why there may be room for him to grow as a passer....TRUST. Do not under estimate the importance of trust for a QB in his receiving options, especially when he is a dual threat QB. TT has clearly established trust with Sammy, and when Sammy was healthy after the bye week in 2015, him and TT had a great connection and deep ball game those 9 games to end the season. Tyrods BIGGEST issue is that he doesn't pull the trigger enough or take enough chances and is quick to pull the ball down and run. However, when Sammy is at full strength he certainly treats him differently and does take more shots. Woods and the rest of the WR group are nothing close to Sammy, and what I saw with Tyrod is that he seemed to trust his legs more than he did his WR's and would be quick to pull the ball down to run and missed seeing guys open down field. Clay is a perfect example...never have I cursed at my TV so much over a TE than I did this year...Clay dogged out a lot of plays and failed to make plays because of it. Thats the kind of thing that keeps a QB from looking your way or making a tough throw. So while I, and everyone else fully acknowledge that Tyrod needs to improve this year, we are also fully aware that there is a lot of things around him improving already (better WR group, better coaching, and most importantly hopefully a healthy Sammy) and he has done enough to warrant optimism that he could improve. We also know that when you average 26 points per game, and give up over 25 points per game...defense is a bigger issue than scoring. So while Tyrod still has something to prove, he was far from our biggest problem. Even a modest improvement on D we would have made the playoffs this year. And we lost BOTH our top 2 draft picks on D last year for part or all of the season, our best DL for half the season, our best communicator for most the season in AW (and our only decent safety), etc. McDermott alone should help the D rebound plus we get Shaq, Rags, Dareus, etc back and added better Safety already and probably more S talent in Draft. There is a lot to be optimistic about in terms of our D improving compared to last 2 years. GO Bills.... PS: The most annoying thing is that there are people here who literally make things up to discredit real successes and production by Tyrod to fill their agenda...FireChan, Ryan Billz, etc. No one cares they don't like Tyrod, but there absolute declaration that they are right and the lengths they go to prove it is absurd. No one knows what will happen, but what we do know is that FireChan and Ryan just like this year will root and cheer for Tyrod to fail like they did last year. They don't come on and prop him up when he has a good game or does something impressive...they stay quiet. But when something bad happens, they are the most active posters here in Shout box and board...and I am pretty sure the community around here is getting sick of it. Peace...and GO BILLS Good post. Well reasoned and stated. However, I'm not in agreement with how you assessed TT. Last year, his second year with the team, I was very troubled by what I saw beyond the stats. Much to my disappointment his game didn't progress. That's what bothers me so much about him. The deficiencies he exhibited in his first year with the team such as throwing into the middle of the field, making anticipatory throws and going through his progressions were still at a very primitive level in his second year. There is no doubt that he was plagued with roster limitations that affected his game. While you criticized Clay for not finishing his routes I saw something different. TT's ability to read progressions was so rudimentary that he reflexively bailed out on plays by running instead of allowing the plays to develop. Clay certainly did cut off some routes early but that was due to the fact that he knew that TT wasn't going to go beyond his initial read. How many passes did TT complete in the seam routes? He rarely made those type of throws because he lacked the timing and precision throw those types of passes. TT throws a beautiful long ball. One of the best in the league. But his game is so rudimentary and limited that I don't see much long term potential. Let's remember that although he has only started for two seasons he has been in the league for around seven years. So it is not unreasonable to believe that what you see is what you get. You are correct that Rex damaged our defense and that it was limited by injuries. Our defense can be patched up and rebound to the point of respectability, especially with smarter coaching. But what is your goal? If you want to be considered a serious team then you have to have a qb who is capable of running a fuller offense that includes a wider range of plays that go beyond TT's limitations. It may seem otherwise but I'm not a TT basher. We are fortunate to have him. He is a perfect bridge qb. But if you expect more out of him then you will be disappointed as this team continues to lag behind the rest of the contenders. Wishful thinking is usually a long shot approach to success. I don't recommend going to the betting window with that type of mentality.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) Good post. Well reasoned and stated. However, I'm not in agreement with how you assessed TT. Last year, his second year with the team, I was very troubled by what I saw beyond the stats. Much to my disappointment his game didn't progress. That's what bothers me so much about him. The deficiencies he exhibited in his first year with the team such as throwing into the middle of the field, making anticipatory throws and going through his progressions were still at a very primitive level in his second year. There is no doubt that he was plagued with roster limitations that affected his game. While you criticized Clay for not finishing his routes I saw something different. TT's ability to read progressions was so rudimentary that he reflexively bailed out on plays by running instead of allowing the plays to develop. Clay certainly did cut off some routes early but that was due to the fact that he knew that TT wasn't going to go beyond his initial read. How many passes did TT complete in the seam routes? He rarely made those type of throws because he lacked the timing and precision throw those types of passes. TT throws a beautiful long ball. One of the best in the league. But his game is so rudimentary and limited that I don't see much long term potential. Let's remember that although he has only started for two seasons he has been in the league for around seven years. So it is not unreasonable to believe that what you see is what you get. You are correct that Rex damaged our defense and that it was limited by injuries. Our defense can be patched up and rebound to the point of respectability, especially with smarter coaching. But what is your goal? If you want to be considered a serious team then you have to have a qb who is capable of running a fuller offense that includes a wider range of plays that go beyond TT's limitations. It may seem otherwise but I'm not a TT basher. We are fortunate to have him. He is a perfect bridge qb. But if you expect more out of him then you will be disappointed as this team continues to lag behind the rest of the contenders. Wishful thinking is usually a long shot approach to success. I don't recommend going to the betting window with that type of mentality. Good post as well, and I understand why you feel the way you do. Personally, I think we have a great opportunity to really load our roster in this draft during the first 3 rounds, and I would much rather do so than gamble by over draft a QB at 10. However, if we take one in the 2nd, I wouldn't hate it nearly as much as if we did at 10. I actually feel strongly that we DO need to draft a QB in this draft, I just don't prefer to do so early nor do I think we need to given Taylor is back. I would love to see us grab a high potential prospect like Chad Kelly in the 5th and focus our first 3 picks on another playmaker on offense, and 2 people in our secondary. All I want to do is win, and I feel one more playmaker and some secondary help puts us a lot closer than over drafting in an underwhelming QB class. This is one of the worst QB classes this decade IMO. Does NOT mean someone wont emerge or more than one, but going into the draft, its Meh. And given that the top 3 teams picking all desperately need a QB and none are likely to take one is all anyone needs to know about this draft class. In fact, none may go in the top 10 despite several teams needing a QB. PS: I don't consider you a TT basher...guys I mentioned before all would be silent during any Bills success, never cheer the team on, but then never shutup at any sign of struggle. They literally spent a season rooting against Tyrod and the Bills. After a big win...they would either barely post or spend time trying to discredit the win or success. After a big loss...take over every thread possible and shout box to spew venom at TT. Gets real old...but I don't ever classify you in that category, we just have healthy differing opinions on drafting a QB this year. Edited March 30, 2017 by Alphadawg7
FireChan Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 Good post as well, and I understand why you feel the way you do. Personally, I think we have a great opportunity to really load our roster in this draft during the first 3 rounds, and I would much rather do so than gamble by over draft a QB at 10. However, if we take one in the 2nd, I wouldn't hate it nearly as much as if we did at 10. I actually feel strongly that we DO need to draft a QB in this draft, I just don't prefer to do so early nor do I think we need to given Taylor is back. I would love to see us grab a high potential prospect like Chad Kelly in the 5th and focus our first 3 picks on another playmaker on offense, and 2 people in our secondary. All I want to do is win, and I feel one more playmaker and some secondary help puts us a lot closer than over drafting in an underwhelming QB class. This is one of the worst QB classes this decade IMO. Does NOT mean someone wont emerge or more than one, but going into the draft, its Meh. And given that the top 3 teams picking all desperately need a QB and none are likely to take one is all anyone needs to know about this draft class. In fact, none may go in the top 10 despite several teams needing a QB. PS: I don't consider you a TT basher...guys I mentioned before all would be silent during any Bills success, never cheer the team on, but then never shutup at any sign of struggle. They literally spent a season rooting against Tyrod and the Bills. After a big win...they would either barely post or spend time trying to discredit the win or success. After a big loss...take over every thread possible and shout box to spew venom at TT. Gets real old...but I don't ever classify you in that category, we just have healthy differing opinions on drafting a QB this year. I didn't post all season.
TheFunPolice Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 We had Gilmore. What difference did it make? The Patriots have drafted more QBs with Brady at the helm than the Bills have. But we've had our guy a few times! How will you ever get a long term answer at QB if you don't try? You are not winning jack squat if you don't have a modern NFL offense.
GunnerBill Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) I just don't share the final conclusion you share on Tyrod...its that simple. You both feel that TT is awful and can't get better.I don't feel Tyrod is awful. Far from it. Ryan and Gungy might but I certainly don't. I feel he is a QB that you can win with and who, when everything is right around him, can take a team to the postseason. He isn't going to lose you games (though "careful with the football" is a description I hate in Quarterbacks -as Parcells once said to Phil Simms... if you are not throwing picks you are not trying hard enough) and Tyrod will make enough big plays here and there with his legs or his deep ball (his two strongest assets). It is, however, true to say that I think it is unrealistic to expect significant improvement in Tyrod's game at this stage based on what you see when evaluating him over the past two seasons. I don't think he is suddenly going to break out and catapult himself into Franchise Quarterback status. If he can't - in your words - trust Brandon Tate or Justin Hunter when they are absolutely wide open, as they were often last year then I have to conclude that it us either he doesn't see them or sees them too late or he is simply not an anticipation thrower willing to take enough risks with the football. He holds it too long and he bails clean pockets too quickly, too often. He is to my eyes what he is. The 20th or so best Quarterback in the NFL. I have to say the renegotiation that the Bills undertook with Tyrod this offseason strongly indicates that they feel the same. They see him as a bridge Quarterback. The point I make on this very thread to JohnC is that I would feel the same about the 3 or 4 guys I have just above Tyrod in that game manager category. I don't want to stand pat with an Alex Smith or an Andy Dalton or a Ryan Tannehill either. They are not true franchise Quarterbacks if you don't believe that they could win you a Superbowl and I don't with any of those guys. If those 3 and Taylor won 1 between them in the rest of their careers that would be a stretch. And whilst I 100% agree with you that the defense not the offense was the problem last year - ruined by a Head Coach who I said on day 1 would likely fail here - I still think Quarterback is the single most important position and if you don't have a guy you would give that "franchise" moniker to then you should be taking shots to find one early and often. To me this is a draft where our positions of need are deep with talent into the 2nd and 3rd and beyond.... I am not sure we lose anything by taking a shot on one of these Quarterbacks.... Watson or Trubisky or a wildcard shot on Pat Mahomes if you want to really roll the dice (and many here do). Edited March 30, 2017 by GunnerBill
PaattMaann Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 and so the "Mahomes creeping up draft board" speculation by the media will begin...when really, NFL Scouts and GMs have known for some time that this is the best QB in the draft... Cardinals had Mahomes in for private workout with their staff and FO, and all came away beyond impressed... Now the media will and mock drafters will start mocking him to them at 13...or trade up for him... Give it a week or so and other teams will be linked to him and we will see him going in the top 5, as he should....hes the GOAT
jeffismagic Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 and so the "Mahomes creeping up draft board" speculation by the media will begin...when really, NFL Scouts and GMs have known for some time that this is the best QB in the draft... Cardinals had Mahomes in for private workout with their staff and FO, and all came away beyond impressed... Now the media will and mock drafters will start mocking him to them at 13...or trade up for him... Give it a week or so and other teams will be linked to him and we will see him going in the top 5, as he should....hes the GOAT I'd rather have Mahomes than Wentz or Goff. Jets and Bears scare me. Some teams will like Trubisky or Watson. What will anger me more is watching the Bills pass on another franchise QB.
PaattMaann Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 I'd rather have Mahomes than Wentz or Goff. Jets and Bears scare me. Some teams will like Trubisky or Watson. What will anger me more is watching the Bills pass on another franchise QB. 9ers should scare you too I agree 100% about being more mad at watching us pass on Mahomes than him getting drafted before us...hopefully thats the case because it will be hard to stomach watching us pass on him for another cornerback or god forbid, positionless (and really, not very good) Peppers
Roundybout Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 I hope that Kizer gets inflated enough for someone like the Jets or 49ers to snag him. Preferably the Jets, because Kizer is terrible and they will be handicapped with a terrible trio of Petty, Hack, and Kizer. This would let Mahomes to fall to us. Right now I see Kizer going to the Cards as a replacement for the corpse of Carson Palmer.
Maury Ballstein Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) PS: The most annoying thing is that there are people here who literally make things up to discredit real successes and production by Tyrod to fill their agenda...FireChan, Ryan Billz, etc. No one cares they don't like Tyrod, but there absolute declaration that they are right and the lengths they go to prove it is absurd. No one knows what will happen, but what we do know is that FireChan and Ryan just like this year will root and cheer for Tyrod to fail like they did last year. They don't come on and prop him up when he has a good game or does something impressive...they stay quiet. But when something bad happens, they are the most active posters here in Shout box and board...and I am pretty sure the community around here is getting sick of it. Peace...and GO BILLS You know what's even more annoying ? Listening to someone make things up. I know you and Firechan argue but leave me out of it. Name 1 thing I've made up about Taylor ? Just 1 is all I need. He is 1-6 vs .500 teams. He is sandwiched between Simien and Tannenhill on the qb lists on NFL.com. Just because you love him, doesn't mean I have to, I watched him soil his pants in big games vs the raiders, steelers, and pats. Apologies for not being louder when we beat the 49ers, Jags, and Browns. He's meh, and it's easy to see when a real qb is on the opponents team. Qb at 10. Let's do this. Edited March 30, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
thebandit27 Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 I hope that Kizer gets inflated enough for someone like the Jets or 49ers to snag him. Preferably the Jets, because Kizer is terrible and they will be handicapped with a terrible trio of Petty, Hack, and Kizer. This would let Mahomes to fall to us. Right now I see Kizer going to the Cards as a replacement for the corpse of Carson Palmer. I think Kizer has Bears written all over him.
Chuck Wagon Posted March 30, 2017 Posted March 30, 2017 I think Kizer has Bears written all over him. Kizer absolutely feels like the Bears. I've thought for a while that it feels like Watson - 49ers , Kizer - Bears, Trub - Jets with someone potentially moving up to 7-11 to get Mahomes ahead of the Browns pick at 12. The narrative has been written these QBs won't go top 10, but there's too big a need and plenty to like from each one, it's not like these teams are going to come out to the mock drafters and say "well actually, we want the QB".
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