jms62 Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Just a lot of stupidity about him on this board. He will get away with what he does in the NFL. Because his release is very quick and probably the best. He has a strong arm, Very Strong. He will be the next Farve or Rogers if you don't try to change him. Yes so good coaching will help him some what. Did you watch Rogers throw against Dallas many throws were made with not the right mechanics or foot work and on the move. You don't change someone like that you embrace it. This is the QB I want the most. I would even take him with the first pick in the draft. I can see 5 years from now. Why did the Bills pass on this guy in the first round. Better be careful. The patriots may take late first round and will have another 17 years of not making the playoffs. Get off your high horse this guy is everything you want in a QB and more. So you are saying he will be a Hall of Fame QB? The beauty of the internet... People making absurd statements that won't be disproven for several years and this post will be long lost in the clouds.
Jauronimo Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Mahomes is athletic? He runs like a baby deer. Its like hes using his legs for the first time. How many times in his own highlight reel did he almost trip himself?
KGun12TD Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Don't pretty much all Qb's do well in this system and then fizzle out in the NFL? Didn't see him under center at all. I'm always Leary about QBs in a spread and/or shotgun only system. Bryce petty was the same as this guy. I'm not sure about him...but, I'm no scout.
K D Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Every year there is a next Favre who seems to have a strong arm and has the "gun slinger" mentality. We talk about them for a couple of months then you never hear anything about them again. It really is a roll of the dice. I don't think anyone has a clue about what it takes to make it as an NFL QB
H2o Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Just a lot of stupidity about him on this board. He will get away with what he does in the NFL. Because his release is very quick and probably the best. He has a strong arm, Very Strong. He will be the next Farve or Rogers if you don't try to change him. Yes so good coaching will help him some what. Did you watch Rogers throw against Dallas many throws were made with not the right mechanics or foot work and on the move. You don't change someone like that you embrace it. This is the QB I want the most. I would even take him with the first pick in the draft. I can see 5 years from now. Why did the Bills pass on this guy in the first round. Better be careful. The Patriots may take him with a late first round pick and then will have another 17 years of not making the playoffs. Get off your high horse, this guy is everything you want in a QB and more. As were all of the other media-hyped, overdrafted QB's before him. He's not Rodgers, he's not Favre, he's not Prescott, he's not. What's stupid is the comparisons of him to these HOF QB's and the one guy that landed in the perfect spot for him to excel this past season.
Fadingpain Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Cardale is a project. Mahomes could play this year with the right system and coach in the NFL. I think in the case of CJ, the term "project" is code for "not very good likely never will be." We need a plan B, C, D, E, F, and G.
jeffismagic Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 I think in the case of CJ, the term "project" is code for "not very good likely never will be." We need a plan B, C, D, E, F, and G. Yes, you are probably right. Cardale is the guy you grab at the end of the draft as another body and hope the light turns on. It seldom does.
Big Turk Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) "Sure thing" and college spread QB's should NEVER be used in the same sentence, and I don't care how many records they set or how many TD's they threw or what their statistics were... There are just too many things they are not required to do in college that they will have to do in the NFL.... not saying they CAN'T do them or that they won't be able to learn how to do them, but there is NO way to project them as 100% sure things that will be able to do them well... At best its a major, major projection based on really nothing you have to go on, which is why colleges are ruining the NFL QB pool these days as more and more teams go to these types of systems...they are great for colleges but terrible for the NFL and these kids chances. A kid who could have been doing NFL type things for 2 or 3 or 4 years in college is now forced to only start learning them in the NFL and so many of these QBs that might have actually been able to be decent NFL QBs if they had been actually doing these things in college are basically discarded quickly in the NFL if they can't master these concepts withing a year or two... Something has to change, but I'm not sure what or how it will...the NFL cannot continue to have 85% of college QBs that enter the draft who are unprepared to play in their league....it makes no sense. Edited January 18, 2017 by matter2003
The Jokeman Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 "Sure thing" and college spread QB's should NEVER be used in the same sentence, and I don't care how many records they set or how many TD's they threw or what their statistics were... There are just too many things they are not required to do in college that they will have to do in the NFL.... not saying they CAN'T do them or that they won't be able to learn how to do them, but there is NO way to project them as 100% sure things that will be able to do them well... At best its a major, major projection based on really nothing you have to go on, which is why colleges are ruining the NFL QB pool these days as more and more teams go to these types of systems...they are great for colleges but terrible for the NFL and these kids chances. A kid who could have been doing NFL type things for 2 or 3 or 4 years in college is now forced to only start learning them in the NFL and so many of these QBs that might have actually been able to be decent NFL QBs if they had been actually doing these things in college are basically discarded quickly in the NFL if they can't master these concepts withing a year or two... Something has to change, but I'm not sure what or how it will...the NFL cannot continue to have 85% of college QBs that enter the draft who are unprepared to play in their league....it makes no sense. This is why some have been pushing for a developmental league. As that's something the CFL and NFL Europe used to do.
Big Turk Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 This is why some have been pushing for a developmental league. As that's something the CFL and NFL Europe used to do. They need something, its dreadful, and by dreadful I mean at an all-time bad level and getting worse every year.
rant_and_go Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 3 years out before any contribution. I'll go with oline or safety, and keep Tyrod.I'm more concerned with coaching staff. What good are draft picks if they are never developed?
CanadianFan Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Pat Mahomes Floor= Johnny Football Medium = Jeff Garcia but with strong arm Ceiling= Derek Carr I'll take Jeff with a strong arm anyday. I'd say Jeff with a strong arm is better than Derek Carr. Jeff was a tough SOB for a small guy and he can run. Heck he would be a star in today's offenses - a star in the Bills O of the last two seasons. Derek's already broken in his second season. What makes Jeff wasn't just his athleticism, but his decision making and intelligence. That's the biggest thing for any QB. If they got the head to see the plays on the fly and get split second decision making right, even a rubber ducky arm can have success in NFL. So what's the prognosis on his decision making and intelligence?
Doc Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 I'll take Jeff with a strong arm anyday. I'd say Jeff with a strong arm is better than Derek Carr. Jeff was a tough SOB for a small guy and he can run. Heck he would be a star in today's offenses - a star in the Bills O of the last two seasons. Derek's already broken in his second season. What makes Jeff wasn't just his athleticism, but his decision making and intelligence. That's the biggest thing for any QB. If they got the head to see the plays on the fly and get split second decision making right, even a rubber ducky arm can have success in NFL. So what's the prognosis on his decision making and intelligence? Yeah but Garcia played in the CFL for what, eight years before coming to the NFL?
somnus00 Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Once again, so many people overthinking details. You know who had great footwork and mechanics? Trent Edwards. Ask Bill Walsh. When the QB makes a great 20 yard strike with pinpoint accuracy, how many people watching the game say, "Yeah, but did you see his footwork? Meh." I'm not saying Mahomes is going to be a star. No one really knows that because mental make-up is such a huge part of the equation. And no one here knows the kid's football smarts. That will come out at the combine. But the tools are there. Strong arm, accurate. I really like his potential. But I have no idea how smart he is with regards to football.
starrymessenger Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 He's an intriguing prospect for sure. A lot to like. A major concern for me are his poor mechanics throwing the football. I'm a little puzzled by this because as a high school senior he was draftable as a MLB pitching prospect and good mechanics re proper footwork, weight transfer and release point are absolutely essential to throwing a baseball regardless of position but especially if you are a pitcher and even more so if, like him, you specialize in heat instead of junk. Thing is, as some have mentioned, his mechanics are spotty or inconsistent rather than flat out bad. In other words he executes properly sometimes but not always. When he does his passes are beautiful. Playing in college his arm, like Cardale's, is good enuf for him to get the ball where he wants it to go but I for one don't think that would be good enuf in the NFL. So I dont agree that you should take him as is and turn him loose and in that sense I see him as a project. How much of a project idk. The fact that he is more spotty rather than bad suggests that he may well be able to have his bad habits coached out of him without derailing (only adjusting) the rest of his game. Mechanics are all important IMO however. All of the good to great ones essentially have good basic throwing mechanics even if their styles differ, and btw I include P. Rivers in that. The fact that he can be accurate and throw with zip does have some upside tho since the chaos of live action often precludes perfect mechanical execution - happens a lot to some QBs like M. Stafford to mention one. Rodgers is in a class by himself in that regard. I have difficulty even fathoming how a human being can make so many perfect difficult throws while fully on the run. But if you look closely at his footwork when in the pocket, where its easier to see, I think you have to conclude his mechanics are sound even in unusual/extreme circumstances. To me, if you believe his mechanics can be cleaned up, he is a first round prospect and maybe even early.
jeffismagic Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Once again, so many people overthinking details. You know who had great footwork and mechanics? Trent Edwards. Ask Bill Walsh. When the QB makes a great 20 yard strike with pinpoint accuracy, how many people watching the game say, "Yeah, but did you see his footwork? Meh." I'm not saying Mahomes is going to be a star. No one really knows that because mental make-up is such a huge part of the equation. And no one here knows the kid's football smarts. That will come out at the combine. But the tools are there. Strong arm, accurate. I really like his potential. But I have no idea how smart he is with regards to football. Thank you. If you were focused on mechanics you would have not drafted Phillip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, and Dak Prescott. Can he make NFL throws? Is he accurate?
starrymessenger Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Thank you. If you were focused on mechanics you would have not drafted Phillip Rivers, Aaron Rodgers, and Dak Prescott. Can he make NFL throws? Is he accurate? IMO good throwing mechanics are very important tho not sufficient. In other words it is possible to be sound technically and lack the other attributes that are necessary. Oh and if memory serves the Pack worked hard on Rodgers mechanics after he was drafted.
Heitz Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 So Tom Brady will eventually bite his ear off? Sounds fun / I hope that's a suspension!
jeffismagic Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Mahomes ran head coach Kliff Kingsbury's "Air Raid" offense in college, a system that uses tempo and spreads out the defense with four or five receivers on every down, almost always placing the quarterback in the shotgun. Mahomes threw 50 times per game in 2016, many of them quick screens to his running back or wide receivers on slants—plays that are staples of an Air Raid offense, which rarely uses a playbook and typically employs just 25-30 plays, each with slight variations. All of these things can scare NFL talent evaluators. But Mahomes happens to be one of the most physically gifted quarterbacks in the draft. His father Pat spent 11 years playing Major League Baseball, and the younger Mahomes received every last one of his dad's athletic genes. He played three sports in high school, excelling at the trifecta of football, basketball and baseball; but he thrived most on the diamond as a pitcher who possessed a 95-mph fastball. Mahomes was so good on the mound that the Detroit Tigers drafted him out of high school. He continued to play baseball as a freshman at Texas Tech before he decided to focus solely on football, where his physical abilities were on breathtaking display every Saturday. His numbers are amazing. This season, Mahomes passed for 5,052 yards and 41 touchdowns, then ran for 12 more. He threw for 734 yards in a loss against Oklahoma—no, that's not a typo. Mahomes' most tantalizing attribute is his Herculean arm strength, as evidenced by the 65-yard bomb he launched from his knees back in April (see the above video). His deep balls are pristine, even if he's off-balance when he throws. Look at this dime below. http://www.stack.com/a/meet-patrick-mahomes-ii-the-two-sport-freak-whos-already-the-talk-of-the-2017-nfl-draft
DasNootz Posted January 18, 2017 Posted January 18, 2017 Footwork frankly is a mess and throwing motion is a bit slingy. The latter worries me less than the former but there is also a lot there that intruiges me. As I said yesterday I only started watching Mahomes last night and an only two games in. I am working through my thoughts on the QBs to try and post a consolidated evaluation at the weekend. +1 His accuracy makes up for his poor mechanics at the college level - Not sure it will be the same with bigger/faster/better corners covering his receivers. He threw a lot of passes of his back foot in the pocket in that video and his delivery is flawed.
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