thebandit27 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 No. Dak played in the SEC Yeah I already corrected it above--I was thinking TTU (probably because we're talking about Mahomes).
Bill_with_it Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 No offense, but you aren't watching much of him if that's what you see. His best throw is the inside slant off of the blast PA. He routinely works the underneath middle off of very quick throws for YAC opportunities, and shows a good eye for pre-snap reads. Check out the Oklahoma game as an example: Right now I have him going 25 to Houston...if Buffalo wants him, they probably have to take him at 10 as a practical matter. On principle, if they want him, they should take him at 10 because he's a QB, and there's literally no good not to take a QB that you like in round 1. i dont think you quite know what you are seeing. 50%ish of those routes were comebacks which is a form of a go route, id say another 25% were out routes. He threw a couple of slants but what i see is a guy overconfident in his arm and gonna throw more picks than a blind jp losman. He also isnt as fast as he thinks he is. A ton of those throws he was absolutely bailed out on. Hes not a true 1st round talent. I wouldnt touch him till late second early third. Thats being generous and thats my opinion.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 Didn't they also produce Dak Prescott? Big 12 did produce Andy Dalton though
thebandit27 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) i dont think you quite know what you are seeing. 50%ish of those routes were comebacks which is a form of a go route, id say another 25% were out routes. He threw a couple of slants but what i see is a guy overconfident in his arm and gonna throw more picks than a blind jp losman. He also isnt as fast as he thinks he is. A ton of those throws he was absolutely bailed out on. Hes not a true 1st round talent. I wouldnt touch him till late second early third. Thats being generous and thats my opinion. Um, yes, I do know what I'm seeing. If you were able to watch the first 90 seconds of that video and didn't see him hitting the quick throws over the middle, then I'm not sure what you were watching. Also, no, a comeback route is not a form of go-route. A "comeback" can be a 3, 4, or deep 7 route. It's fine if you have a different opinion, but let's not ignore what's there. Edited March 7, 2017 by thebandit27
Maury Ballstein Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 i dont think you quite know what you are seeing Making so many new friends!
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 i dont think you quite know what you are seeing. 50%ish of those routes were comebacks which is a form of a go route, id say another 25% were out routes. He threw a couple of slants but what i see is a guy overconfident in his arm and gonna throw more picks than a blind jp losman. He also isnt as fast as he thinks he is. A ton of those throws he was absolutely bailed out on. Hes not a true 1st round talent. I wouldnt touch him till late second early third. Thats being generous and thats my opinion. What QB prospects do you like?
Chuck Wagon Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 Big 12 did produce Andy Dalton though No it didn't, they didn't join the Big 12 until after he left.
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 It's not like Mahomes never played teams outside the Big 12. The original point was a bit of hyperbole. He's a TT super fan. He's blowing me up w excuses in the Watson thread.Every qb stinks cuz TT can't be touched Now it all makes sense. When you love someone looking at other QB's must feel like cheating...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 Wentz played in Division II went top 2. Roethlisberger played in MAC and went 11th overall. Non QB's Khalil Mack played at UB but he looks ok. All good examples, but I could make the arguement that both Wentz and Roethlisberger played in far more pro style systems than Mahomes. The elite DII teams can prepare a guy for the pros just as much as DI. The MAC was also producing some quality NFL QB's at the time of Roethlisberger. The Big 12 has produced nothing of quality at the QB position. It's like a different sport. Teams run screens and all go's as receivers run unhindered all over the field. The Big 12 QB is like the point guard, and the end zone is the basket. Scores like 70-63 are not uncommon. Mahomes has a ton of arm talent. It's unfair to compare him to anyone else. Playing in the Big 12 doesn't negate the talent he has. I just would be afraid to use a high pick on him. It's not like Mahomes never played teams outside the Big 12. The original point was a bit of hyperbole. Now it all makes sense. When you love someone looking at other QB's must feel like cheating... Having concerns about the conference and style of play is not hyperbole. It's just an opinion that leaves some feeling less enthusiastic about Mahomes than others.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 No it didn't, they didn't join the Big 12 until after he left. Ah, I thought they joined in '10. Turns out it was '11.
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 All good examples, but I could make the arguement that both Wentz and Roethlisberger played in far more pro style systems than Mahomes. The elite DII teams can prepare a guy for the pros just as much as DI. The MAC was also producing some quality NFL QB's at the time of Roethlisberger. The Big 12 has produced nothing of quality at the QB position. It's like a different sport. Teams run screens and all go's as receivers run unhindered all over the field. The Big 12 QB is like the point guard, and the end zone is the basket. Scores like 70-63 are not uncommon. Mahomes has a ton of arm talent. It's unfair to compare him to anyone else. Playing in the Big 12 doesn't negate the talent he has. I just would be afraid to use a high pick on him. Having concerns about the conference and style of play is not hyperbole. It's just an opinion that leaves some feeling less enthusiastic about Mahomes than others. There is game tape of Mahomes playing LSU. Your statement made it sound like every Mahomes game should be dismissed because "no defense". And it works in other ways as well. Mahomes had terrible protection compared to other prospects, etc. You have to scout the traits and figure out what you have.
GunnerBill Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I haven't watched a lot of college football(outside of a few games I bet on during the season, I've watched none.) From what I've heard about Watson is that he's an all time great college QB, but his game won't translate well to the NFL. He doesn't make enough throws from the pocket, lacks accuracy too often, etc. I simply don't agree. The tape tells a very different story.
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I simply don't agree. The tape tells a very different story. For those that love TT, every college QB is a bust.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 There is game tape of Mahomes playing LSU. Your statement made it sound like every Mahomes game should be dismissed because "no defense". And it works in other ways as well. Mahomes had terrible protection compared to other prospects, etc. You have to scout the traits and figure out what you have. Fair enough. I don't want it sound like all his success is becaue of no defense. I'm just really afraid of a predetermined read air raid offense QB. He has all time great arm talent. It means nothing if he can't adjust to the pro game. It won't be easy because he is already faced with a steep learning curve.
wppete Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 There is game tape of Mahomes playing LSU. Your statement made it sound like every Mahomes game should be dismissed because "no defense". And it works in other ways as well. Mahomes had terrible protection compared to other prospects, etc. You have to scout the traits and figure out what you have. I agree with this^^^
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 For those that love TT, every college QB is a bust. I would probably be called one of those people. I actually don't love TT (I think he's average) but I think that this years QB class will be an all around bust. I don't know why some people think that every QB class must have a future star in it. Talk to me about next year and it's a different story.
BillsFan2313 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I would probably be called one of those people. I actually don't love TT (I think he's average) but I think that this years QB class will be an all around bust. I don't know why some people think that every QB class must have a future star in it. Talk to me about next year and it's a different story. You were probably saying this same exact thing last year.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) You were probably saying this same exact thing last year. No I wasn't. Why is it so unreasonable to think that an entire QB draft class can be a bust? It's not like it hasn't happened before. Why am I required to like one of the QB's this year? Edited March 7, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5
GunnerBill Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I would probably be called one of those people. I actually don't love TT (I think he's average) but I think that this years QB class will be an all around bust. I don't know why some people think that every QB class must have a future star in it. Talk to me about next year and it's a different story. For what it is worth my evaluations are only based on what I see on film. I don't try and force QBs up the board just to say one is worth a top 5 or top 10 pick. I was the biggest critic going of both the Eagles and Rams last year because I didn't think either of those Quarterbacks were worth near what they gave up for them. I don't think there is a QB in this class you should trade the farm for either. But I do think there is one with a very good chance to be a franchise guy and another who has a shot to be.
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) No I wasn't. Why is it so unreasonable to think that an entire QB draft class can be a bust? It's not like it hasn't happened before. Why am I required to like one of the QB's this year? Because that doesn't happen that often. I just looked at the last 6 classes and only 2013 could be described that way. 1/6= 16% Bills fans have EJ Syndrome, the fear of EJ around every corner!! Edited March 7, 2017 by jeffismagic
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