Chicken Boo Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 I advocate a "Fire Whaley" billboard if Mahomes is there at 10 and Whaley doesn't take him and we miss out on him. I'll even start and contribute to the Gfundme account. Conversely, I will advocate a "Fire Whaley" billboard if Mahomes is there at 10 (he definitely will be) and the Bills select him. I do not understand the hype around this guy. He looks nowhere near ready to start an NFL game.
jeffismagic Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 Don't worry, the Bills will not take Mahomes. I just heard Bills puppet Chris Brown dissing Mahomes and Trubisky and praising Watson for throws he made in shorts. Bills can market Watson easier and wouldn't know a QB if they reached out and jumped in their path.
17 Josh Allen Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 Bills need to clean house with there media people, Chris Brown & Murph should be the 1st to go no one believes anything they say. Just spewing company line !
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 Don't worry, the Bills will not take Mahomes. I just heard Bills puppet Chris Brown dissing Mahomes and Trubisky and praising Watson for throws he made in shorts. Bills can market Watson easier and wouldn't know a QB if they reached out and jumped in their path. To be fair, Watson has had some pretty great throws in pads too... and many times in games against defenders that are also getting drafted this year
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted March 6, 2017 Posted March 6, 2017 All Whaley has to do is hit on a QB and the guy will be a genius, will we draft one or is he going to go the veteran route is the million dollar question?
LABILLBACKER Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 The Bills have not had a franchise qb in over 20 yrs. The Bills have not made the playoffs in 18 consecutive years. The Bills have displayed a higher level of ineptitude longer than other franchises . How can you not be impressed? We need to draft 2 QBs this april...maybe Mahomes, Watson or Trubisky @10 and take a Peterman or Kelly late...draft multiple guys...and I'definitely even do it if we keep TT...
Bill_with_it Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 "I get it. Youre afraid of your team drafting a gunslinger. Theyre unpredictable. They make dumb mistakes. Their brand of football gets sloppy. Many of you will be terrified at the prospect of Patrick Mahomes joining your favorite team. If youre predisposed to anxiety, hell up the volume: He scrambles, he throws off balance, hell throw it across his body, and hell squeeze the ball into windows that would make Alex Smith faint and Kirk Cousins jealous. If Mahomes mental-emotional transition to the conceptual rigors of the NFL, look out. He plays the position with the flair of an All-Star shortstop and hes the most entertaining quarterback Ive seen in a long time." Matt Waldman https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2017/02/02/rsp-boiler-room-no-79-qb-patrick-mahomes-off-script-pass-placement/ Great a football writer with no scouting experience at all. Guess we should listen to every analyst that has an opinion of draftees vice the ones that are actually experienced scouts. Hint hint they do exist.
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 Great a football writer with no scouting experience at all. Guess we should listen to every analyst that has an opinion of draftees vice the ones that are actually experienced scouts. Hint hint they do exist. The amateur scouting community does a great job. Waldman has more than an hour of video on Mahomes where he goes over tape with another college QB breaking down film. I find that far more valuable than any scouts opinion. The fact is that NFL teams are routinely WRONG on QBs. If it wasn't so we would have more I trust Doug the professional threads.
GunnerBill Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) The amateur scouting community does a great job. Waldman has more than an hour of video on Mahomes where he goes over tape with another college QB breaking down film. I find that far more valuable than any scouts opinion. The fact is that NFL teams are routinely WRONG on QBs. If it wasn't so we would have more I trust Doug the professional threads. I don't love Mahomes.... I think it is one thing slinging the ball accurately with terrible footwork when your guys are wide open - and his guys were often WIDE open in the Big 12 - and another when you have the pressure of tighter coverage and tight windows. His accuracy was noticeably more spotty in the redzone on tape when those windows were a little tighter. The ceiling is huge there and I woudn't hammer the Bills if they took a shot (though in the 1st I'd prefer if it followed a trade down) but he is a guy more than any other who needs to sit for a year and tighten up some of that footwork. He might be the guy to target if you decide to keep Tyrod. However, I do agree with you on the amateur scouting community. There are a lot of guys out there doing really tremendous work now, and many of them appear to have watched the tape more closely and have a stronger basis for their opinions than some of the old network talking heads. Evaluating potential NFL Quarterbacks is just about the hardest job in sports and nobody has designed a fool proof method of working out the good ones from the busts - if they did, they would make a fortune. But people should not have a snobby view about amateur scouts (and I don't say that just because I do some myself.... I am amateur even within the confines of amateur) read or watch their work, consider whether you think they are demonstrating an understanding of what they are seeing and then accept that people have different opinions. As Kirby often says for all those who "knew" Russell Wilson was going to be a franchise Quarterback there are at least double who have "known" the same about Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker and Manziel and countless others. I really liked Blake Bortles in 2014 (at the moment doesn't look so hot), but I was also higher than most on Dak last year and had a 2nd round grade on him. It is not a science. We all get some right and some wrong.... whether it is Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Matt Miller or me in my lounge. Edited March 7, 2017 by GunnerBill
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I don't love Mahomes.... I think it is one thing slinging the ball accurately with terrible footwork when your guys are wide open - and his guys were often WIDE open in the Big 12 - and another when you have the pressure of tighter coverage and tight windows. His accuracy was noticeably more spotty in the redzone on tape when those windows were a little tighter. The ceiling is huge there and I woudn't hammer the Bills if they took a shot (though in the 1st I'd prefer if it followed a trade down) but he is a guy more than any other who needs to sit for a year and tighten up some of that footwork. He might be the guy to target if you decide to keep Tyrod. However, I do agree with you on the amateur scouting community. There are a lot of guys out there doing really tremendous work now, and many of them appear to have watched the tape more closely and have a stronger basis for their opinions than some of the old network talking heads. Evaluating potential NFL Quarterbacks is just about the hardest job in sports and nobody has designed a fool proof method of working out the good ones from the busts - if they did, they would make a fortune. But people should not have a snobby view about amateur scouts (and I don't say that just because I do some myself.... I am amateur even within the confines of amateur) read or watch their work, consider whether you think they are demonstrating an understanding of what they are seeing and then accept that people have different opinions. As Kirby often says for all those who "knew" Russell Wilson was going to be a franchise Quarterback there are at least double who have "known" the same about Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker and Manziel and countless others. I really liked Blake Bortles in 2014 (at the moment doesn't look so hot), but I was also higher than most on Dak last year and had a 2nd round grade on him. It is not a science. We all get some right and some wrong.... whether it is Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Matt Miller or me in my lounge. Thank you Gunner. I love reading your takes and I do listen to others who spend time on breaking down film. When I get solid tips from people who have been right before I then look at game film myself to see what is there. Many NFL paid professionals are there because the NFL is an old boys club. And Mahomes is polarizing. Even his fans like myself acknowledge that.
The_Dude Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 Conversely, I will advocate a "Fire Whaley" billboard if Mahomes is there at 10 (he definitely will be) and the Bills select him. I do not understand the hype around this guy. He looks nowhere near ready to start an NFL game. If you don't understand the hype then you've either never seen him play, or you lack the ability to identify talent. Those are the only two plausible conclusions. So where would the money go? Are you going to buy a billboard? or just buy beer to bury our misery when Whaley sticks around another few years? No front office can see the future. You are correct on that front. The difference is that we have needed a QB for what seems like an eternity now. It's one thing to not draft Brady. He was a random fifth round selection after all. It's another to constantly avoid taking a QB in the second or third round when you aren't set at the position. Nothing would bring me more joy than the Pegula's getting negative pub.
thebandit27 Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I don't love Mahomes.... I think it is one thing slinging the ball accurately with terrible footwork when your guys are wide open - and his guys were often WIDE open in the Big 12 - and another when you have the pressure of tighter coverage and tight windows. His accuracy was noticeably more spotty in the redzone on tape when those windows were a little tighter. The ceiling is huge there and I woudn't hammer the Bills if they took a shot (though in the 1st I'd prefer if it followed a trade down) but he is a guy more than any other who needs to sit for a year and tighten up some of that footwork. He might be the guy to target if you decide to keep Tyrod. However, I do agree with you on the amateur scouting community. There are a lot of guys out there doing really tremendous work now, and many of them appear to have watched the tape more closely and have a stronger basis for their opinions than some of the old network talking heads. Evaluating potential NFL Quarterbacks is just about the hardest job in sports and nobody has designed a fool proof method of working out the good ones from the busts - if they did, they would make a fortune. But people should not have a snobby view about amateur scouts (and I don't say that just because I do some myself.... I am amateur even within the confines of amateur) read or watch their work, consider whether you think they are demonstrating an understanding of what they are seeing and then accept that people have different opinions. As Kirby often says for all those who "knew" Russell Wilson was going to be a franchise Quarterback there are at least double who have "known" the same about Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker and Manziel and countless others. I really liked Blake Bortles in 2014 (at the moment doesn't look so hot), but I was also higher than most on Dak last year and had a 2nd round grade on him. It is not a science. We all get some right and some wrong.... whether it is Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Matt Miller or me in my lounge. I'm a Mahomes guy, and I have been since 2015. I love the raw material and moxie, and I love the snap-to-release time when he knows he needs to speed things up. I think he's going to need a lot of work, but as I've said, the Mahomes-Stafford comparisons are real IMO. As to records on QBs, mine is really up-and-down. I was a Cousins guy, but I missed wildly with guys like Kaepernick. It happens.
Maury Ballstein Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I'm a Mahomes guy, and I have been since 2015. I love the raw material and moxie, and I love the snap-to-release time when he knows he needs to speed things up. I think he's going to need a lot of work, but as I've said, the Mahomes-Stafford comparisons are real IMO. As to records on QBs, mine is really up-and-down. I was a Cousins guy, but I missed wildly with guys like Kaepernick. It happens. Not so sure you missed with Kaepernick. He was electric on his super bowl runs.
JohnC Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I don't love Mahomes.... I think it is one thing slinging the ball accurately with terrible footwork when your guys are wide open - and his guys were often WIDE open in the Big 12 - and another when you have the pressure of tighter coverage and tight windows. His accuracy was noticeably more spotty in the redzone on tape when those windows were a little tighter. The ceiling is huge there and I woudn't hammer the Bills if they took a shot (though in the 1st I'd prefer if it followed a trade down) but he is a guy more than any other who needs to sit for a year and tighten up some of that footwork. He might be the guy to target if you decide to keep Tyrod. However, I do agree with you on the amateur scouting community. There are a lot of guys out there doing really tremendous work now, and many of them appear to have watched the tape more closely and have a stronger basis for their opinions than some of the old network talking heads. Evaluating potential NFL Quarterbacks is just about the hardest job in sports and nobody has designed a fool proof method of working out the good ones from the busts - if they did, they would make a fortune. But people should not have a snobby view about amateur scouts (and I don't say that just because I do some myself.... I am amateur even within the confines of amateur) read or watch their work, consider whether you think they are demonstrating an understanding of what they are seeing and then accept that people have different opinions. As Kirby often says for all those who "knew" Russell Wilson was going to be a franchise Quarterback there are at least double who have "known" the same about Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker and Manziel and countless others. I really liked Blake Bortles in 2014 (at the moment doesn't look so hot), but I was also higher than most on Dak last year and had a 2nd round grade on him. It is not a science. We all get some right and some wrong.... whether it is Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Matt Miller or me in my lounge. When you haven't had a franchise qb in over twenty years and you refuse to aggressively secure that position it becomes tantamount to dereliction of duty. You can take any prospect and dissect the player to the point that you can convince yourself that selecting the player isn't worth the risk. In the end what does that obsessive scrutiny get you? Reverting to the standby response of drafting an attractive DB who will depart after the first contract due to prohibitive costs i.e. (Clements/Gilmore) That hesitant approach gets you placed in the history books for the ignominious distinction of a quarter century of consecutive years out of the playoffs in a system designed for parity. (I'm confidently assuming more years of non-playoff seasons.) Go back and review the scouting book on Derek Carr. He wasn't an elite prospect that teams were coveting. Yet this top of the second round selection has done more to elevate a deeply buried franchise that was prone to being mocked for being such an erratic franchise. Now they are contending team. Do I have to ask you why? Dak Prescott wasn't an elite prospect. Yet he was able to come in and competently take over when the starter got hurt. Do you think the Cowboys regret drafting Dak, a qb who was their third or fourth preference on their draft list? Instead of examining a qb from the perspective what the prospect doesn't do well how about altering one's scouting framework and viewing what the qb does do well and how that translates to the pro game. A few days ago I was listening to a podcast where the GM of the Eagles was being interviewed. The host asked the GM why they took such a big risk and give up a lot for the drafting of Wentz? His response was illuminating. He said absolutely not. He explained that the risk was not in doing what you had to do to taking a qb, the risk was not doing what you had to do to get a qb. If you don't act in securing that position you have little chance to succeed. Compare that attitude to the passive mentality of the Bills? My point is obvious to the fans of this archaic franchise. If this pathetic organization continues to act with timidity on the qb issue and allows other teams to pass it by it richly deserves the scorn and mocking that is directed at it. I'm a Mahomes guy, and I have been since 2015. I love the raw material and moxie, and I love the snap-to-release time when he knows he needs to speed things up. I think he's going to need a lot of work, but as I've said, the Mahomes-Stafford comparisons are real IMO. As to records on QBs, mine is really up-and-down. I was a Cousins guy, but I missed wildly with guys like Kaepernick. It happens. You are astute and perspicacious. The problem with the approach that a lot of people take when evaluating qbs is that they focus on the shortcomings without balancing it out with what they do well. They are taking a static approach when scouting a player instead of taking a more dynamic approach and projecting what the player is capable of doing with good coaching and work ethic.
FireChan Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) I'm a Mahomes guy, and I have been since 2015. I love the raw material and moxie, and I love the snap-to-release time when he knows he needs to speed things up. I think he's going to need a lot of work, but as I've said, the Mahomes-Stafford comparisons are real IMO. As to records on QBs, mine is really up-and-down. I was a Cousins guy, but I missed wildly with guys like Kaepernick. It happens. I loved Wentz. And Tannehill..... Nobody has a good record on QB's. But you only need to get 1/100 right. Edited March 7, 2017 by FireChan
GunnerBill Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 John - I am not advocating standing pat at Quarterback. I have been quite clear that the Bills need to be more aggressive in getting hold of a true franchise guy. But you still have to watch the tape and be true to yourself evaluating the prospects. I can be not mad on Mahomes and still want us to take a Quarterback.... hell I have said I'd be okay with Mahomes with a trade back in the 1st and I have a 3rd round grade on him... so that is the opposite of being passive in acquiring a guy. I have a ton of respect for Bandit and his evaluations. Often he and I see things in a similar way. We differ on Mahomes.... that is okay, it happens. It doesn't mean I don't want to take a Quarterback. Watson is the #1QB on my board if he is there at 10 I'd run to the podium and pick him.
JohnC Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 John - I am not advocating standing pat at Quarterback. I have been quite clear that the Bills need to be more aggressive in getting hold of a true franchise guy. But you still have to watch the tape and be true to yourself evaluating the prospects. I can be not mad on Mahomes and still want us to take a Quarterback.... hell I have said I'd be okay with Mahomes with a trade back in the 1st and I have a 3rd round grade on him... so that is the opposite of being passive in acquiring a guy. I have a ton of respect for Bandit and his evaluations. Often he and I see things in a similar way. We differ on Mahomes.... that is okay, it happens. It doesn't mean I don't want to take a Quarterback. Watson is the #1QB on my board if he is there at 10 I'd run to the podium and pick him. I don't care what horse you are riding as long as it is a qb horse.
Bill_with_it Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 I don't love Mahomes.... I think it is one thing slinging the ball accurately with terrible footwork when your guys are wide open - and his guys were often WIDE open in the Big 12 - and another when you have the pressure of tighter coverage and tight windows. His accuracy was noticeably more spotty in the redzone on tape when those windows were a little tighter. The ceiling is huge there and I woudn't hammer the Bills if they took a shot (though in the 1st I'd prefer if it followed a trade down) but he is a guy more than any other who needs to sit for a year and tighten up some of that footwork. He might be the guy to target if you decide to keep Tyrod. However, I do agree with you on the amateur scouting community. There are a lot of guys out there doing really tremendous work now, and many of them appear to have watched the tape more closely and have a stronger basis for their opinions than some of the old network talking heads. Evaluating potential NFL Quarterbacks is just about the hardest job in sports and nobody has designed a fool proof method of working out the good ones from the busts - if they did, they would make a fortune. But people should not have a snobby view about amateur scouts (and I don't say that just because I do some myself.... I am amateur even within the confines of amateur) read or watch their work, consider whether you think they are demonstrating an understanding of what they are seeing and then accept that people have different opinions. As Kirby often says for all those who "knew" Russell Wilson was going to be a franchise Quarterback there are at least double who have "known" the same about Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker and Manziel and countless others. I really liked Blake Bortles in 2014 (at the moment doesn't look so hot), but I was also higher than most on Dak last year and had a 2nd round grade on him. It is not a science. We all get some right and some wrong.... whether it is Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Matt Miller or me in my lounge. When I see Mahomes I see a tall Tyrod. Every bit of the things Mahomes does Tyrod can and has done if not better. One of the videos done up regarding Mahomes being highly touted about in this thread literally showed himrunning away from pressure, heres the thing my grandma was running faster then every defender chasing him. Almost every throw on any of the videos is a deep go or out, nothing else. The offense is so simplistic I dont think many would have a problem running it. Coupled with bare naked wrs with apparently no safety to help the opposing cb and you produce results as everyone on here thinks Mahomes could do in the NFL. Whew, on to your next statement. Im not snobby towards any amateur scout. Firstly, his own bio doesnt list him as a scout, he is a football analyst writer. If he isnt claiming the accolades dont give it to him and act like his opinion as a writer is any more in depth or true than any others thinking, because it likely isnt. He gets paid to write ptoducts that people will read, if jis product said he predicts Mahomes to throw more ints than a blind Brett Favre in the NFL who would read or pay for that?
TheFunPolice Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 Could we get him in the 2nd? I think (like always) QBs will get "over-drafted" because teams need them. I say "over drafted" because let's say Dallas picked Dak in round 1 last year and he had the season he did. Nobody would care that he was "over drafted." I am a firm believer that if you love a QB and think he will be "the guy" for 15 years+ you take him as soon as you can, because there is always the chance that you aren't the only one who thinks that.
jeffismagic Posted March 7, 2017 Posted March 7, 2017 Could we get him in the 2nd? I think (like always) QBs will get "over-drafted" because teams need them. I say "over drafted" because let's say Dallas picked Dak in round 1 last year and he had the season he did. Nobody would care that he was "over drafted." I am a firm believer that if you love a QB and think he will be "the guy" for 15 years+ you take him as soon as you can, because there is always the chance that you aren't the only one who thinks that. Mahomes will probably go around 15-25 is my guess.
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