billykaykay Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 Corners don't really win or lose games IMO... outside the QB and coaching staff there isn't one position you can attribute that level of responsibility to. They simply improve or weaken the defense by virtue of their play, and Gilmore is the best one we have. I would be very surprised to find a better corner in this year's draft, in any round, that would come in and replace his production day one. Not saying that we can do better than G in the draft. But, perhaps we can put $14M to better use at another 1-3 positions. G is pretty good but he is definitely replacable.
FireChan Posted February 8, 2017 Author Posted February 8, 2017 Sam Shields was just cut by GB. He's had some off-field issues but has been a good corner. Anyone know offhand if he'd be a decent fit for McD scheme? I say yes without knowing because Bandit says so.
aristocrat Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 Sam Shields was just cut by GB. He's had some off-field issues but has been a good corner. Anyone know offhand if he'd be a decent fit for McD scheme? career might be done due to his concussions
YoloinOhio Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 The thing with Stephon is that he is a very good cover corner, but this past year, he did seem to shy away from tackles and not always give his full effort. Maybe some will put that on the coaches/scheme, a lot of players seemed unhappy with the system, etc. Some might put it on the fact that he was going to be a free agent and was avoiding injury. Whatever it was, a guy who doesn't seem to be giving full effort makes me nervous. What happens once he gets paid? Will he feel valued and ball out? Or will the lack of effort continue cause he got his? Again, he is a very good player, but not great or elite until he consistently gives it all he has. The Bills offered 10.5 million/yr at the start of the season, which would have put him at 8th highest paid corner with a guy like Byron Maxwell. Steph appears to want around 14 million/yr, which would be in the top 4 paid CBs with the likes of Josh Norman, Richard Sherman, Patrick Peterson, and Darelle Revis. These guys are all great cover corners (despite Revis' decline...he was paid for how he has played in the past, not this year), but they are all also physical players who always give effort. I just don't see Stephon in that class yet. I mean, is he worth 5 million/yr more than an Aqib Talib (who also made the pro bowl) or Robert Alford? Is he worth twice as much money as a Rodgers-Cromartie? For comparison, the other pro bowl CBs not named Peterson or Sherman were paid the following in 2016: Janoris Jenkins 12.5 million Aqib Talib 9.5 million Chris Harris 8.5 million Casey Hayward 5.1 million (rookie contract) Marcus Peters 2.4 million (rookie contract) Xavier Rhodes 1.9 million (rookie contract) I'm just not sure he is worth top 4 money and if his "Show me the Money" sneakers are any indication, I don't think he's going to settle for less. If that's the case I think you let him walk. I could see the Bills up their offer of 10.5 to maybe around 12 if the new staff really wants him. That would put him around 7th highest paid CB. There were only 9 corners in the league who even made 10+ million in 2016. 11-12 million/yr is not a slap in the face by any means. It seems to be right around where his value should be set. imo i think the difference is not whether he's a better corner than those guys. It's that he's a FA in 2017, not 2016 or 2015 or when we they signed those deals. You don't have to be the best, just really good and the most recent. The FA dollars/cap goes up every year and so do the contracts.
thebandit27 Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 Sam Shields was just cut by GB. He's had some off-field issues but has been a good corner. Anyone know offhand if he'd be a decent fit for McD scheme? He would, but he'd be a risk. He's got good size and solid ball skills, so I think he'd be a fit. It would have to be at a small number, because... career might be done due to his concussions Yep. IMO, this is the kind of guy you sign to an incentive-laden deal.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 i think the difference is not whether he's a better corner than those guys. It's that he's a FA in 2017, not 2016 or 2015 or when we they signed those deals. You don't have to be the best, just really good and the most recent. The FA dollars/cap goes up every year and so do the contracts. Do you know who the 15 guys with the most guaranteed money coming in the NBA are right now? Mike Conley Damian Lillard Bradley Beal Anthony Davis (tied with Beal) CJ McCollum DeMar DeRozan Steven Adams Giannis Antetokounmpo Andre Drummond Rudy Gobert Chandler Parsons Nicolas Batum Victor Oladipo James Harden Evan Fournier They range from $85M - $140,529,000 guaranteed
Tipster19 Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) How about a tag and trade? The Titans need CB help and they pick #5 overall in this year's draft. Trade them Gilmore and our 1st rd pick (#10 overall) for their #5 pick and their 2nd rd pick and possibly a late rd pick (4th or 5th rder) of their's as well. Edited February 9, 2017 by Tipster19
Big Turk Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Who needs a quarterback when we have an overpaid corner who gets roasted by Chris Hogan? Then turns and yells at his teammate about it instead of trying to make the tackle
#34fan Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Gilmore couldn't shut down the wheelchair entrance of a nursing home. Buh-bye!
purple haze Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) I feel like this is the Bills lowball offer ($12m) and then they can say "we tried." Possibly, but it seems to me that's not an "in person" conversation. That's a convo between the team and an agent. A player meets with ownership/management if things are getting done. Which leads me to believe he's not necessarily in Boca Raton to see the Pegula's IF he's even in Boca Raton at all. Edited February 9, 2017 by purple haze
thebandit27 Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Gilmore couldn't shut down the wheelchair entrance of a nursing home. Buh-bye! I see nobody wants to take me up on my request to compare Gilmore's 2016 stats to Richard Sherman's...it would probably save you from categorically-incorrect statements like this one.
YoloinOhio Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Do you know who the 15 guys with the most guaranteed money coming in the NBA are right now? Mike Conley Damian Lillard Bradley Beal Anthony Davis (tied with Beal) CJ McCollum DeMar DeRozan Steven Adams Giannis Antetokounmpo Andre Drummond Rudy Gobert Chandler Parsons Nicolas Batum Victor Oladipo James Harden Evan Fournier They range from $85M - $140,529,000 guaranteedexactly. Every FA season there is outrage that fill-in-the-blank team gave who how much?! He's not worth that! Omg! "Worth" is a very relative term when it comes to pro sports, free agency, and salary cap floors. The Browns now have 105 million in cap space. They WILL be overpaying players to go there. They have to start spending money and it's the only way they will sign anyone good anyway. Like Jax the last few years, they will be handing out ridiculous contracts and Gilmore is going to get what he wants this year or next from someone.
FireChan Posted February 9, 2017 Author Posted February 9, 2017 Do you know who the 15 guys with the most guaranteed money coming in the NBA are right now? Mike Conley Damian Lillard Bradley Beal Anthony Davis (tied with Beal) CJ McCollum DeMar DeRozan Steven Adams Giannis Antetokounmpo Andre Drummond Rudy Gobert Chandler Parsons Nicolas Batum Victor Oladipo James Harden Evan Fournier They range from $85M - $140,529,000 guaranteed Lesterwas the highest paid at his position when the Cubs signed him.
PaattMaann Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 I see nobody wants to take me up on my request to compare Gilmore's 2016 stats to Richard Sherman's...it would probably save you from categorically-incorrect statements like this one. I know how they compare based on previous conversations with you... I dont want to re-sign Gilmore, not based on talent, but based on team needs. McDermott has gotten great production from less than stellar corners previously....he also will likely run a zone, which doesn't require good cover man skills like Gilmore has. Why not let him walk, sign a cheap replacement who is good at zone coverage already, and use the money elsewhere? Gilmore is a luxury for us right now...id rather fill some necessities
Chuck Wagon Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Can't tackle and has no heart. I say no way to resigning him. What corner can tackle? If you need your corners to tackle 235 lbs backs, the rest of the team has already failed. I know how they compare based on previous conversations with you... I dont want to re-sign Gilmore, not based on talent, but based on team needs. McDermott has gotten great production from less than stellar corners previously....he also will likely run a zone, which doesn't require good cover man skills like Gilmore has. Why not let him walk, sign a cheap replacement who is good at zone coverage already, and use the money elsewhere? Gilmore is a luxury for us right now...id rather fill some necessities That line of thinking worked great for the Panthers last year....
YoloinOhio Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 What corner can tackle? If you need your corners to tackle 235 lbs backs, the rest of the team has already failed. That line of thinking worked great for the Panthers last year.... i think the Panthers situation with Norman was unique. They didn't exactly let him walk in FA. They very much wanted to re-sign him and ended up tagging him. He was in the process of switching agents and the Panthers pulled the tag out of frustration with the former agent. I believe there was some giant misunderstanding or mishandling of the situation from what I recall. they never thought he wasn't someone they needed or didn't want to pay.
HT02 Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 Who needs a quarterback when we have an overpaid corner who gets roasted by Chris Hogan? Couldn't agree more, Patriots, Falcons, Packers and Steelers were all in the bottom eight teams in terms of cap money spent on defense, all were in the conference championship game. Get the QB situation settled first
T master Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) Gilly is a top 10 CB. TT stinks. Deal. At least he thinks he's top 10 . He sure ain't no Josh Norman or richard sherman !! Gilmore ain't worth that much cash ... Especially with the talent on defense in the draft this year he can & should be replaced !! Edited February 9, 2017 by T master
Bill from NYC Posted February 9, 2017 Posted February 9, 2017 I see nobody wants to take me up on my request to compare Gilmore's 2016 stats to Richard Sherman's...it would probably save you from categorically-incorrect statements like this one.Bandit, do you think that Gilmore is a better cb than Jenkins? I am not trying to prove any point at all, I just am interested in your opinion. I don't pay as much attention to secondary play as I do to both lines so for what little it's worth, and without bothering to check stats, I think that Jenkins is clearly superior.
FireChan Posted February 9, 2017 Author Posted February 9, 2017 At least he thinks he's top 10 . He sure ain't no Josh Norman or richard sherman !! Gilmore ain't worth that much cash ... Especially with the talent on defense in the draft this year he can & should be replaced !! Gilmore was better than Sherman last year, but whatever dawg.
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