How does a team develop a young QB???

[JohnC]

I found this question to be thought provoking and difficult to respond. I think I feel this way because I'm not sure if the word "develop" is the right term. Teams don't really develop QB's anymore. Almost every franchise QB in today's NFL was thrown into the fire early in their career. Teams don't draft QB's to sit on the bench like in they did in the past. It really doesn't take long in today's NFL to know if a QB is going to be a good one early in his career. All of the today's franchise QB's were very good by their third season at the latest.

 

I think the better question is how do you put a young QB in the best situation to succeed? This is what helps a young QB. Guys don't jump off the bench in their fifth season and suddenly become franchise QB's. This is why the Cardale situation makes me laugh. It's difficult to believe that he's working on learning the pro game, and could one day become a franchise guy. There are no franchise QB's currently in the league whose team was petrified to play as a rookie.

Kirk Cousins didn't play until I think his fourth year. During that time he was diligently preparing and he was doing the same in the offseason where he would attend qb camps.

 

Aaron Rogers didn't much see the field until I believe his fourth season but he also worked hard in practice to prepare himself when the opportunity came.

 

The LA franchise knew very well when they drafted Goff that he wasn't prepared to play in his rookie season. The preparation strategy was due to the major transition from his college offense to the pro offense.

 

With respect to Cardale he was worth the selection at the price of a fourth round investment because of his physical tools. The Bills could have drafted Dak Prescott in the third round but what do you expect from an organization that hasn't demonstrated much of an ability to evaluate that position?

[ganesh]

1. REPS, dammit!

2. Support. (Build confidence)

3. Simple, low stress, offensive scheming.

4. Find them a go-to guy... Reliable target

5. O-line help.

6. GIVE THEM THE WHEEL!

 

You guys have any better methods? -Speak now, or forever hold your peace!

And have a defense that can take pressure of a young QB. QBs like Brady, BigBen and Eli have won SuperBowls because they could depend on their defense/Special Teams at the beginning of their career.

I don't agree at all. A bunch of those guys were developed Russell Wilson didn't come into the league as the QB he is today. Nor did Big Ben, nor did Flacco. They were able to be successful as they developed because they went to teams that did a good job putting pieces around them and limited what they were asking them to do.

 

To say none of those 3 developed is crazy talk to me.

I think what he is trying to say is that these guys succeeded enough with the other pieces surrounding them and they didn't sit on the bench for a couple of years developing (Like Rodgers).

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Kirk Cousins didn't play until I think his fourth year. During that time he was diligently preparing and he was doing the same in the offseason where he would attend qb camps.

 

Aaron Rogers didn't much see the field until I believe his fourth season but he also worked hard in practice to prepare himself when the opportunity came.

 

The LA franchise knew very well when they drafted Goff that he wasn't prepared to play in his rookie season. The preparation strategy was due to the major transition from his college offense to the pro offense.

 

With respect to Cardale he was worth the selection at the price of a fourth round investment because of his physical tools. The Bills could have drafted Dak Prescott in the third round but what do you expect from an organization that hasn't demonstrated much of an ability to evaluate that position?

Great points about Rodgers and Cousins. I totally forgot about those two. I would make the arguement that they both could have been just as productive if they took the field as rookies. I just believe that good QB's will become good QB's in the NFL. The idea that you must sit them for a certain period of time is obsolete. With some exceptions I don't think you "ruin" a guy by playing him as a rookie anymore. The only reasons Rodgers and Cousins didn't play were named Favre and RG3.

 

As far as Cardale is concerned I certainly don't blame the Bills for drafting him. I just don't see hope for him as a franchise QB as some here do. The best I could hope for out of him is to become a reliable backup. Goff is a guy who will be a bust. How many "project QB's" have become franchise guys?

And have a defense that can take pressure of a young QB. QBs like Brady, BigBen and Eli have won SuperBowls because they could depend on their defense/Special Teams at the beginning of their career.

 

I think what he is trying to say is that these guys succeeded enough with the other pieces surrounding them and they didn't sit on the bench for a couple of years developing (Like Rodgers).

That's the way it has worked for most QBs these days. Rodgers is definitely the exception rather than the rule. Almost every current franchise QB showed flashes of greatness in their rookie or second seasons. They weren't sitting around "developing". Rodgers may have been just as good had he played as a rookie. We will never know. According to most reports Favre had little to do with teaching him the ropes. Edited February 5, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[#34fan]

Kirk Cousins didn't play until I think his fourth year. During that time he was diligently preparing and he was doing the same in the offseason where he would attend qb camps.

 

Aaron Rogers didn't much see the field until I believe his fourth season but he also worked hard in practice to prepare himself when the opportunity came.

 

The LA franchise knew very well when they drafted Goff that he wasn't prepared to play in his rookie season. The preparation strategy was due to the major transition from his college offense to the pro offense.

 

With respect to Cardale he was worth the selection at the price of a fourth round investment because of his physical tools. The Bills could have drafted Dak Prescott in the third round but what do you expect from an organization that hasn't demonstrated much of an ability to evaluate that position?

 

Wow, This is patently false! -How much football do you actually watch, my friend????

 

Kirk cousins played 3 regular-season games as a rookie, and saw significant action! Week 5, week 14, and week 15, if memory serves RG3's knee blew out..

 

Pretty sure Cousins won that last game vs. the Browns convincingly....

 

But Shanny was getting him significant playing time even in the preseason games! -Cousins is probably one of the best examples of what I'm talking about.

Edited February 5, 2017 by #34fan

[swnybillsfan]

 

Quick decisions, or GOOD decisions? -Could it be the responsibily of the OC to make the former the same as the latter?

 

Sure, the young QB needs his decision making process streamlined and refined... But how do you do that without SLOWING THE ENTIRE PROCESS DOWN -As in Tyrod's case?

i almost view this as i do natural speed. you can only coach it up so much. you either have it or you don't i mean, you can teach anyone to play a song, but then you see some old SRV and you kinda crap your pants a bit. there are those that do it better than most. and then there are those that better than everyone else.

[JohnC]

 

Wow, This is patently false! -How much football do you actually watch, my friend????

 

Kirk cousins played 3 regular-season games as a rookie, and saw significant action! Week 5, week 14, and week 15, if memory serves RG3's knee blew out..

 

Pretty sure Cousins won that last game vs. the Browns convincingly....

 

But Shanny was getting him significant playing time even in the preseason games! -Cousins is probably one of the best examples of what I'm talking about.

I live in the Md/DC area so I am familiar with how much Cousins played. You got the story wrong. Cousin didn't get much playing time. He only got in when RGIII got hurt. When RGIII got healthy again he went back to being the starting qb.

 

The smart thing that Cousins did even when he was used as a scout qb in practice was work hard and prepare. When he finally got an opportunity to play he was ready.

 

Shanahan actually preferred Cousins over RGIII. But the owner's preference prevailed. So what Shanahan did was play RGIII to the point that he became a lame and battered horse. It wasn't until there was no other option that Cousins got an opportunity to play. When Gruden replaced Shanahan it didn't take him long to realize that Cousins was the better qb. It still was a challenge to convince the owner who made a major investment in draft picks (his decision against Shanahan's judgment) for Griffin. Eventually the owner had to relent and acknowledge the obvious that Cousins was a better pro qb.

 

The point of the story is that although he didn't play much in his first few years he was working hard to prepare and be ready when his opportunity came. That is a tribute to his character and hard work.

 

Goff is a guy who will be a bust. How many "project QB's" have become franchise guys?

 

I disagree with your view on Goff. Without any hesitation I would give up a first round pick for him. When the Rams selected him they knew and planned for him to use his first year as a prep year without much playing time, if any. But I believe that he is a top shelf talent. He throws a beautiful ball, has good mechanics, is accurate and has good arm strength. However, his college scheme was not very adaptable to the pro game. Making a judgment on his prospects based on his rookie year is very much too premature and is a mistake in my opinion.

[Dragonborn10]

Is there a single starting QB that was developed?

You keep drafting until you find a star and then you play him.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I like how Philadelphia surrounded their young QB with a bunch of guys that played QB in the league. One thing I would do if in McDermott's shoes (or any coach) is try to bring aboard a recently retired QB that was known as a "bright QB." He would work with the QB coach but with young QBs specifically. You could call him the QB development coach or something. Maybe someone like Orton or David Garrard or one of the McCown's (if they decide to retire) would make sense. The QB coach has to spend his time preparing the starter but that shouldnt preclude from having someone else working with the guys behind him.

 

Or Peyton, just saying

[PatsFanNH]

Both Brady and Rogers sat before they played. They are arguably To of the greats at that position right now.

[zonabb]

Starts with a draft analysis that allows them to draft an actually developable QB, something I think is more myth than reality. If you could simply draft and develop, every team would have an excellent backup and no team would be stuck with garbage year over year. The problem is, as far as I can tell because I don't follow little league or high school or college, the spread offense that puts athletes in the QB position, seems to limit the number of pro-ready, pro-style QBs in the pros. When a player spends his entire life not under center and from the gun, he's not developable in his 20s. Ain't happening.

 

I see all the flaws in QB drafting happening because of poor criteria used by teams. Some teams refuse to draft short QBs, passing on guys like Russell Wilson. Some continue to draft guys they think they can develop despite horrible problems with accuracy, footwork, vision and other criteria that have proven over and over unrepairable. Others fail to do much psychological and intelligence testing and still draft dummies, my constant rant on drafting sub-22 Wonderlic guys (no Super Bowl winning QB with a reported Wonderlic score was below 22 except for Bradshaw who apparently had some disability, maybe dyslexia?). Then there's the desperation over drafting, taking a guy early just because you're in QB purgatory. The Bills fit many of these problems.There are so many problems that are self created from the draft process.

 

I always liked Parcel''s criteria, which are by no means a guarantee but QBs who meet 4 of 4 or 3/4 of four have turned out to be pretty good. Plus, if you follow his, add in the no sub-22 Wonderlics, you'd end up with a good metric to measure the draftability of a QB who might be useful.

 

Tonite's game features two QBs with Wonderlics in 30s and if you include the Parcells criteria, Ryan is 4/5 and Brady 3/5. Again, no guarantees but there has to be better ways to separate the winners from the posers.

 

For me, any QB sub-22 is off my draftable list. That would have eliminated Losman (who scored in the teens the first time and then after probably being coached and practive, scored higher) but not Manuel.

[#34fan]

Kirk Cousins didn't play until I think his fourth year.

 

...Not trying to bust your hump JC, But Kiptin Kirk was a substantial part of this offense just two years after being drafted.... He was IN CHARGE of it just three years after the draft... Yes, It was due to I/R3's inability to stay healthy, but Shannahan saw that one comin' and insulated the team... They OWE that S.O.B. in my opinion...

 

What's the lesson?

 

Shanny fished for what was BITING in the '12 draft... In this case QB's... He bagged the limit, and the team was better of for it... This year it's TE, WR, DE... -Another great year to STAY AWAY from QB's in the 1st!

 

 

The point of the story is that although he didn't play much in his first few years he was working hard to prepare and be ready when his opportunity came. That is a tribute to his character and hard work.

 

Again, Yah, he kinda did... RGIII was a wreck by 2014

[#34fan]

 

next,,,,they need to have a coach working with them that works on mechanics WITHOUT making the qb think too much,,,,to me this is where david lee fails......a guy that does not just work on footwork but also progression reads and game day tendicies

 

Agree here... Lee specialized in analysis paralysis.

 

You draft the right QB for the right system. These days you don't "develop" a QB. You either drafted him or, you didn't.

 

Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, Dak Prescott, Ben Roethlisberger, Cam Newton, Joe Flacco, Marcus Mariota, Jameis Winston, Derek Carr, Drew Brees, are some names who were never "developed" to be the starting QB. They either took it over at training camp or were thrown into the fire because of an injury.

 

Not really rocket science. We're still waiting to draft the right QB, you don't "develop" one

 

Wow... How can you peddle this stuff in good conscience???... Drew Brees never developed??? Neither did Jameis, Mariota, or Carr??? -I'm speechless.

 

Big Ben and Dak definitely got off to hot starts... But they made their fair share of BAD throws and mistakes...

Edited February 6, 2017 by #34fan

[Maury Ballstein]

Aikman Payton M Luck Dak among others played day one.

 

Seasoning schmesoning. Put on the helmet and get out there

[#34fan]

Aikman Payton M Luck Dak among others played day one.

 

Seasoning schmesoning. Put on the helmet and get out there

 

Letting guys play day 1 is definitely one development strategy... Trial by fire... Player improves with each iteration... Especially with the "help" mentioned earlier in this thread.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

They change their name from "Bills."

[QuoteTheRaven83]

 

Agree here... Lee specialized in analysis paralysis.

 

 

Wow... How can you peddle this stuff in good conscience???... Drew Brees never developed??? Neither did Jameis, Mariota, or Carr??? -I'm speechless.

 

Big Ben and Dak definitely got off to hot starts... But they made their fair share of BAD throws and mistakes...

 

No...if you watch enough football, they teams that drafted them, played them. It's not fckin rocket science. Carr wasn't supposed to be the starting QB but he beat Schaub during Training camp. You honestly think the Raiders developed him in a month and a half of training camp to the QB he is now? lol.

 

As a QB you have it or you don't. You don't DEVELOP into a star QB. Sorry you can't comprehend this.

 

So you're saying that the teams with the best QB's can develop ANY QB into a star QB because they have some secret formula? LOL. Sure buddy

Edited February 6, 2017 by QuoteTheRaven83

[#34fan]

 

No...if you watch enough football, they teams that drafted them, played them. It's not fckin rocket science. Carr wasn't supposed to be the starting QB but he beat Schaub during Training camp. You honestly think the Raiders developed him in a month and a half of training camp to the QB he is now? lol.

 

As a QB you have it or you don't. You don't DEVELOP into a star QB. Sorry you can't comprehend this.

 

 

 

That's like saying an egg automatically develops into a Chicken... IT DOESN'T... It should..... But the conditions have to be right...

 

True, some eggs will be duds regardless. However, the right amount on incubation usually results in a successful hatching... I get what your trying to say... Sadly, any rational human being knows you're WAY off.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

That's like saying an egg automatically develops into a Chicken... IT DOESN'T... It should..... But the conditions have to be right...

 

True, some eggs will be duds regardless. However, the right amount on incubation usually results in a successful hatching... I get what your trying to say... Sadly, any rational human being knows you're WAY off.

I must bud in. Great analogy but not many QB's go through "incubation" anymore. They play right away, and often times succeed. For all the QB's who failed you can't necessarily blame it on them playing too soon. For the guys like Rodgers who sat, you can't say that's the reason they succeeded. He'd probably still be Aaron Rodgers even if he played as a rookie. You say "incubation usually results in a successful hatching" but this analogy is simply untrue pertaining to football. QB's who sit on the bench don't "usually" go on to success anymore than guys who play as rookies. This is an old fashion mind set that isn't true in todays game. Edited February 6, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[GunnerBill]

Playing early does not mean don't need development.

 

Big Ben played early and won his first 13 or something starts. But he was asked to do very little his first two years. They won because of their defense, special teams and running game. The first year they opened it up for him was his 3rd and he completed fewer than 60% of his passes and he threw more picks than touchdowns.

 

It was year 4 before Ben became Ben. They developed him whilst having success along the way by putting him in a position to succeed.

 

I am not saying you can put any Quarterback in and take that approach and it will work. They need to have the raw materials as well but the idea that Ben did not need developing he just came out and was himself is absolute nonsense.

[#34fan]

I must bud in. Great analogy but not many QB's go through "incubation" anymore. They play right away, and often times succeed. For all the QB's who failed you can't necessarily blame it on them playing too soon. For the guys like Rodgers who sat, you can't say that's the reason they succeeded. He'd probably still be Aaron Rodgers even if he played as a rookie. You say "incubation usually results in a successful hatching" but this analogy is simply untrue pertaining to football. QB's who sit on the bench don't "usually" go on to success anymore than guys who play as rookies. This is an old fashion mind set that isn't true in todays game.

 

Bud-in if you must, but first know that I actually agree with you... "incubation" doesn't have to mean sitting for countless ears behind a veteran.... I think Cardale SHOULD play more... He'll make mistakes, but sound coaching, and reps will help that going forward.