Cardale Jones

[jr1]

he needs second team reps

[JoeF]

 

Joe, how do you know what they see? You just made that up. You have no idea what they see unless you are there with them watching it listening to what they say. Come on man.

Look at his highlight tape from college PD.

 

1) His feet are seldom planted in the direction of the throw (kind of important)....he had improved on that consistently by preseason and in the Jets game. Footwork is a real key.

2) He hardly ever went through his reads in college--at OSU it was hey is primary open and if not he was on the run. He actually was going through some progressions in the preseason and on a couple of throws in the Jets game.

3) His size and arm are pretty easy to judge...

 

As much as we try to make this rocket science -- its really not.

 

He's rawer than raw -- its pretty easy to see progress from where he started even to the untrained eye.

 

Two other things -- I picked up from highlight tapes..

 

1) he's often a back foot thrower and not just in situations where he is under rush. He has a great arm but is really lazy in shifting body weight with the throw.

2) He's got a lot of lazy habits-- weak on play action and carrying out fakes..does decent on the roll out/on the move though.

 

Like I said-- not hard to look at someone who is raw and pick out the obvious things...in no way do I profess to know the finer points -- but I saw progress last year.

Edited February 4, 2017 by JoeF

[PolishDave]

It’s not tanking, it’s making sound business decisions in building your team the proper way. You can’t be expected to always go for the gold when the landscape and schedule just isn’t realistically there for you to do so. You don’t force yourself into making risky decisions like using a ton of cap money on a mediocre QB like Taylor, or burning a 1st rd QB pick on a talent poor or highly questionable class.

It looks like there’s going to be about 3 maybe 4 true franchise QBs in next year’s class. The sound decision is to sign a cheap free agent QB, then hope Jones will be ready to start a significant number of games (8-10?) to take over the starting duties from whoever that veteran QB is. Whatever long shot Jones is, at least you’ll have a chance (no matter how small that chance is) that he shows he’s got the “it” factor and he’s going to be the long term answer.

That Bills schedule is literally one of the toughest in the league. There’s no need to make rash or risky decisions so that it doesn’t look like you’re not tanking. This team is a 6 or 7 win team with Taylor starting. Make the proper decisions with the QB position that will get you to the top 3 or 4 years from now.

Just remember, the Bills are already behind the 8 ball with teams like the Raiders, Titans who have Carr and Mariota (even eventually the Colts with Luck). In the next couple of years, you’ll have a bunch of teams that have aging QBs (Steelers, Giants, Saints, Chargers, Cardinals, Vikings) who’ll be getting back into the QB market soon. I think there'll be a mad dash for QBs in the 2018 draft. Best to at least be in the range of getting one than winning two more games with Taylor and then having to burn 1st round picks to move up. If you aren’t in position because Cardale Jones turned out to be the steal of last years draft, then you don’t have to worry about it!

 

FYI - Tyrod isn't commanding a ton of cap money if extended. In fact he is on the cheap side for a starting QB. If his performance improves over this past year (which is very likely assuming he has healthy quality receivers) then you will have an even better bang for your buck.

 

Signing a cheap (proven not good) veteran QB like Hoyer will be seen as tanking. No way around it. 90% of football fans (whether Buffalo fans or not) would agree that Hoyer is a substantial downgrade compared to Tyrod. Even if they aren't right about whether he is a downgrade or not, it doesn't matter. The perception of the downgrade is there as soon as the Bills make that move. And because of that perception, fans will say - the Bills are tanking. Analysts will say it on national media channels like NFL channel and ESPN. It will get called into question immediately.

 

It is about as obvious as it can get.

 

If they were going to do that, they may as well just admit it and start Cardale or some rookie they draft this year.

 

If they went and got somebody like Romo - at least they would have a leg to stand on when they said they were trying to upgrade. But somebody who already had his shot and failed like Hoyer - nope. They won't convince people that is an honest effort. They will be admitting they want to lose.

 

If they move on from Tyrod and they want to sell tickets this year, then they are going to have to bring in a big name rookie like Watson or else a big name veteran like Romo (or his equivalent).

[YoloinOhio]

Cardale will be selling cars at Joes gently preowned car lot next year. 30 day guarantee.

he is currently at tOSU taking the last two classes he needs for his Bachelor's.

[Mike in Horseheads]

he is currently at tOSU taking the last two classes he needs for his Bachelor's.

Joe needs somebody to "cook the books"

[PolishDave]

Look at his highlight tape from college PD.

 

1) His feet are seldom planted in the direction of the throw (kind of important)....he had improved on that consistently by preseason and in the Jets game. Footwork is a real key.

2) He hardly ever went through his reads in college--at OSU it was hey is primary open and if not he was on the run. He actually was going through some progressions in the preseason and on a couple of throws in the Jets game.

3) His size and arm are pretty easy to judge...

 

As much as we try to make this rocket science -- its really not.

 

He's rawer than raw -- its pretty easy to see progress from where he started even to the untrained eye.

 

It is entirely possible he has improved immensely from college. I don't know because I think I only saw him play one game in college - and to be honest I don't remember his play from there.

 

I was talking about improving over the course of last season. The only thing any fan has to go on is what they saw in preseason and what they saw in the Jet's game. And in my opinion he looked better in a couple quarters in preseason. I know it is a very small sample size. He might very well have gotten better and just not shown it in that Jet's game. Maybe he does show it in practice.

 

I am merely questioning how any fan (in this case - you) can claim definitively that he has improved meaningfully (if at all) from preseason to the Jet's game. How in the world could you tell from that Jet's performance. That was not good quarterbacking by any stretch. During part of his last preseason performance he was extremely decisive and forcing the ball to receivers which was working at points. Part of his preseason was very unimpressive too. But he looked better at points in preseason than at any point in his limited time in the Jet's game.

 

That's why I question when you made the statement about what the coaches are seeing. You made that stuff up about the coaches saying "They see improved footwork throughout the year; improved ball placement throughout the year, the ability to grasp a fairly simple NFL passing system and the courage to throw into any window with literally a rocket arm."

[JoeF]

Cardale will be selling cars at Joes gently preowned car lot next year. 30 day guarantee.

Can he roll back odometers?

[BADOLBILZ]

Look at his highlight tape from college PD.

 

1) His feet are seldom planted in the direction of the throw (kind of important)....he had improved on that consistently by preseason and in the Jets game. Footwork is a real key.

2) He hardly ever went through his reads in college--at OSU it was hey is primary open and if not he was on the run. He actually was going through some progressions in the preseason and on a couple of throws in the Jets game.

3) His size and arm are pretty easy to judge...

 

As much as we try to make this rocket science -- its really not.

 

He's rawer than raw -- its pretty easy to see progress from where he started even to the untrained eye.

 

Two other things -- I picked up from highlight tapes..

 

1) he's often a back foot thrower and not just in situations where he is under rush. He has a great arm but is really lazy in shifting body weight with the throw.

2) He's got a lot of lazy habits-- weak on play action and carrying out fakes..does decent on the role though.

 

Like I said-- not hard to look at someone who is raw and pick out the obvious things...in no way do I profess to know the finer points -- but I saw progress last year.

 

 

Your optimism is admirable but he actually looked worse the more he played in the preseason and the Jets game was just an extension of that.

 

Taking steps back might be the path to getting better but sometimes it's not too.

[JoeF]

 

It is entirely possible he has improved immensely from college. I don't know because I think I only saw him play one game in college - and to be honest I don't remember his play from there.

 

I was talking about improving over the course of last season. The only thing any fan has to go on is what they saw in preseason and what they saw in the Jet's game. And in my opinion he looked better in a couple quarters in preseason. I know it is a very small sample size. He might very well have gotten better and just not shown it in that Jet's game. Maybe he does show it in practice.

 

I am merely questioning how any fan (in this case - you) can claim definitively that he has improved meaningfully (if at all) from preseason to the Jet's game. How in the world could you tell from that Jet's performance. That was not good quarterbacking by any stretch. During part of his last preseason performance he was extremely decisive and forcing the ball to receivers which was working at points. Part of his preseason was very unimpressive too. But he looked better at points in preseason than at any point in his limited time in the Jet's game.

 

That's why I question when you made the statement about what the coaches are seeing. You made that stuff up about the coaches saying "They see improved footwork throughout the year; improved ball placement throughout the year, the ability to grasp a fairly simple NFL passing system and the courage to throw into any window with literally a rocket arm."

You are correct--I have not talked to Coach McDermott, Culley, Dennison...,you win. I mean no one every does conjecture on an Internet message board, so I apologize if I offended you with my conjecture.

[FireChan]

Cardale's purpose is for Doug Whaley and his group of sychophants to have someone to point to if/when TT flames out.

 

"We still have a developing Jones on the roster, the QB position is fine" - Doug Whaley in the offseason following 2017.

[JoeF]

 

 

Your optimism is admirable but he actually looked worse the more he played in the preseason and the Jets game was just an extension of that.

 

Taking steps back might be the path to getting better but sometimes it's not too.

You honestly look at the preseason games and think that was a regression from the second year at Ohio State?

Edited February 4, 2017 by JoeF

[Mike in Horseheads]

Can he roll back odometers?

Odometers, inspections. emission testing everything can be "taken care of" at Joes. 30 day guarantee

[BADOLBILZ]

You honestly look at the preseason games and think that was a regression from the second year at Ohio State?

 

 

He regressed DURING the preseason and looked as bad in the Jets game as he did at the end of the preseason.

 

Not to be unexpected........he didn't play much at Ohio State.

 

Does a guy who hasn't won a QB competition since High School have the fight and focus in him to turn his high end physical skills into high end NFL QB play?

 

Urban Meyer basically branded him a flake on the way out the door at Ohio State so as big of a fan as I was of that pick from a talent standpoint....... I am not going to put the rose-colored glasses on when I watch him play.

[PolishDave]

It would actually be cool if the Bills did a video and put it up at BuffaloBills.com that showed how Cardale has improved at the position from camp till now assuming he has. - Would be a good PR move. Would give fans more optimism about Cardale.

 

Or maybe they are saving that for the day they part ways with Tyrod.

 

March 10th, 2017

 

Whaley picks up phone - dials Commandant Goebbels - "Release the video."

 

We must prepare the masses for when we name Cardale the starter.

Edited February 4, 2017 by PolishDave

[Dragonborn10]

You do EXACTLY what you always planned on doing with a Cardale. You continue to develop him. He made big strides in year 1 and still has a ways to go. This isn't a surprise to the Bills. He was a raw prospect with a high celing. He wasn't being drafted to be a solid back-up that can play day one. He was a guy that was drafted because he has the raw tools to be a star. His role this year probably looks a lot like his role last year. That's not a disappointment or a surprise, that was the plan.

Completely agree. He has no hope of playing now. Let him get his reps in OTA's and in training camp. If he shows progress keep him another year. If not keep drafting one until you find one.

He regressed DURING the preseason and looked as bad in the Jets game as he did at the end of the preseason.

 

Not to be unexpected........he didn't play much at Ohio State.

 

Does a guy who hasn't won a QB competition since High School have the fight and focus in him to turn his high end physical skills into high end NFL QB play?

 

Urban Meyer basically branded him a flake on the way out the door at Ohio State so as big of a fan as I was of that pick from a talent standpoint....... I am not going to put the rose-colored glasses on when I watch him play.

How many college snaps did Matt Cassell get? He sat and learned and turned out to be a serviceable pro. Jones' celing is a lot higher than Cassell but only time will tell.

[1billsfan]

 

FYI - Tyrod isn't commanding a ton of cap money if extended. In fact he is on the cheap side for a starting QB. If his performance improves over this past year (which is very likely assuming he has healthy quality receivers) then you will have an even better bang for your buck.

 

Signing a cheap (proven not good) veteran QB like Hoyer will be seen as tanking. No way around it. 90% of football fans (whether Buffalo fans or not) would agree that Hoyer is a substantial downgrade compared to Tyrod. Even if they aren't right about whether he is a downgrade or not, it doesn't matter. The perception of the downgrade is there as soon as the Bills make that move. And because of that perception, fans will say - the Bills are tanking. Analysts will say it on national media channels like NFL channel and ESPN. It will get called into question immediately.

 

It is about as obvious as it can get.

 

If they were going to do that, they may as well just admit it and start Cardale or some rookie they draft this year.

 

If they went and got somebody like Romo - at least they would have a leg to stand on when they said they were trying to upgrade. But somebody who already had his shot and failed like Hoyer - nope. They won't convince people that is an honest effort. They will be admitting they want to lose.

 

If they move on from Tyrod and they want to sell tickets this year, then they are going to have to bring in a big name rookie like Watson or else a big name veteran like Romo (or his equivalent).

 

You seem to think the Bills decision-makers should care more about outside perception of the team and ticket sales rather than making smart decisions. That’s the small, short-sided thinking that has been doing in this franchise for the last 15 years. Sometimes you’ve just got to do the right thing, even if it means knowingly signing on for a year of discontent at the QB position. Taylor, Watson, Trubisky are all just feel good band-aids IMO. Hopefully the Bills decision-makers will have the guts to acknowledge that none of these QBs are the answer, the only QB they will draft or sign on for long term will be the QB they think is the answer, and until then build the roster up for that franchise QB that they hope will either be Jones, or the franchise level QB would be drafting just a little over 14 months from now. After 17 years, that should be a piece of cake.

[Beef Jerky]

What do you do? Is that really a question? He is a cheap option you try to mold into something better. If it doesn't work no worries, it also doesn't stop you from drafting another QB if you wanted to.

 

You don't really have to do anything out of the norm... Since he is a backup QB you drafted and is very cheap.

[1st&ten]

 

Makes sense, I mistakenly thought he was on the PS. My original point about Chad Kelly still applies as I have this feeling he will be one of our 5th round picks as it just makes too much sense. With the Bills not having a 4th rounder, I just can't see us using either of our top 3 picks on a QB unless someone they really like slides to a great value spot.

 

Gilmore looks like he is most likely gone leaving 3 huge holes in the starting secondary at CB and both safety spots. I assume we likely address CB in FA as there are some suitable guys there to bring in, especially with the draft being a strong one for safeties. You have to think WR and RT are high on the list too. So, I think those first 3 picks are going to be a higher priority for Secondary, RT and WR (depending on what isnt addressed in FA) then look to use one of our two picks in the 5th to bring a young prospect in to compete for Cardale as the development guy.

 

Chad Kelly will not be around in the 5th round. He will be gone by the 3rd round.

[BADOLBILZ]

Completely agree. He has no hope of playing now. Let him get his reps in OTA's and in training camp. If he shows progress keep him another year. If not keep drafting one until you find one.

How many college snaps did Matt Cassell get? He sat and learned and turned out to be a serviceable pro. Jones' celing is a lot higher than Cassell but only time will tell.

 

Brad Johnson would be a better example.....he was a backup at Florida State and won a SB in Tampa.

 

It can happen but there is something a little off about Cardale and Meyer intimated to it.......it was a huge disappointment that he lost that QB job at Ohio State......JT Barrett is not very good......a guy with Cardale's talent should have been tearing it up with all that talent around him but he was basically just doing enough to win and Meyer wasn't having that.

 

Playing down to the competition was a Rob Johnson trait........I hope that isn't the case with Cardale.

[Kirby Jackson]

The issue I have with Cardale or any qb prospect is his accuracy. If a qb doesn't have sharp accuracy in college it is improbable (not impossible) that he will have it in the pros where the windows are tighter and the speed of the game is much faster. Without a doubt he has intriguing tools related to his size and arm strength. I'm not criticizing his selection and investment on development. It's just that I think the odds are against him making it in the long run because of the accuracy issue. I would love to be wrong and am still very much open about him.

Odds are definitely against him. He was a swing for the fences. IF (capital letters) he ever puts it together he can be something that maybe no other QB in that class can be. He's a longshot but was worth the swing IMO. I didn't want a guy that has the ceiling as a backup or low end game manager. I think that those guys have a place. As an example, if we were the Bucs, Cody Kessler would have made more sense than Cardale. You already have your young starter. You need a guy that can play behind him and not lose games for a few weeks. If you are in search of a franchise guy Cardale makes more sense.