Cardale Jones

[Ennjay]

Serious question: what do you do with Cardale?

 

All you ever hear about him is that he's not ready, which he proved hugely in the Jets game. You also read there's no time during the regular season to develop him because other QB's need the rep's. So when does he get ready?

 

If you bring back Tyrod, he plays and he's probably here a few more years. Where's the window for Cardale? If he's "not ready," how do you make him the 2nd QB even with EJ gone?

 

If you don't bring back Tyrod, someone else plays because Cardale's not ready. You pick up a serviceable vet and probably forget about the playoffs.

 

If you draft Watson at #10 (which appeals to me a lot), there's a better chance of him playing early -- like in 2017 -- than Cardale.

 

So what's the point of carrying Cardale? What are you supposed to do with him and when?

[Kirby Jackson]

You do EXACTLY what you always planned on doing with a Cardale. You continue to develop him. He made big strides in year 1 and still has a ways to go. This isn't a surprise to the Bills. He was a raw prospect with a high celing. He wasn't being drafted to be a solid back-up that can play day one. He was a guy that was drafted because he has the raw tools to be a star. His role this year probably looks a lot like his role last year. That's not a disappointment or a surprise, that was the plan.

[PolishDave]

You do EXACTLY what you always planned on doing with a Cardale. You continue to develop him. He made big strides in year 1 and still has a ways to go. This isn't a surprise to the Bills. He was a raw prospect with a high celing. He wasn't being drafted to be a solid back-up that can play day one. He was a guy that was drafted because he has the raw tools to be a star. His role this year probably looks a lot like his role last year. That's not a disappointment or a surprise, that was the plan.

 

What big strides are you talking about?

Serious question: what do you do with Cardale?

 

You continue to (teach him / coach him / drill him) and let him compete against the other quarterbacks you have on the roster.

 

If he improves and keeps improving then you keep him and hope he can outplay whoever your starter is within the next 2 years.

 

If he regresses without earning the starting position or if he just becomes stagnant where he isn't improving over a season, you kick him to the curb.

 

With this new coaching staff - they might have different opinions of Cardale than the last staff had. So - you really don't know what to expect. He could become 2nd string or he could get cut. Starting Cardale is very unlikely based on his play so far. But pretty much anything else one way or the other is possible.

Edited February 4, 2017 by PolishDave

[Alphadawg7]

Cardale will be fighting for a roster spot this season but it will almost certainly be a PS spot.

 

Assuming we keep Taylor:

1. Bills will almost certainly add a vet QB to the roster to compete for the backup job as I can't imagine they will feel comfortable with a raw kid like Cardale going into camp as the primary competitor for the backup gig.

2. In addition to that Vet, the Bills will likely add 2 more QBs to the roster before camp, and I assume one in the draft and probably an UDFA rookie.

 

Taylor will be the starter with the Vet and Cardale competing for the backup, and if Cardale doesn't win (and he likely wont) he will then be fighting for the PS spot as we aren't dressing 3 QB's on Sunday and he is going to have to compete for that spot with the likely rookie or rookies we add to camp too.

 

Personally I think he has almost no chance to make the active roster and is 50/50 to even make the PS and odds could worsen if we grab a quality rookie prospect that is more polished this year. Wouldn't surprise me to see him and someone like Chad Kelly battling it out for the PS roster spot as I think we could grab Kelly in the 5th this year.

 

With no 4th round pick, and several holes in the secondary, a big need at WR and RT, I just don't think the Bills will use either of the first 3 picks on a QB and then look to add a prospect in the 5th. Kelly makes a lot of sense there and I think Cardale's ability to make the PS will come down to a battle between those 2. Cardale has a lot of tools to like, but if he doesnt show enough improvement it wouldn't shock me to see him cut.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

What big strides are you talking about?

 

The Bills coaching staff was happy with his development as the year went along. There was talk of it late in the year. He was a LONG way from playing when he came. He's closer now.

[1billsfan]

Serious question: what do you do with Cardale?

 

All you ever hear about him is that he's not ready, which he proved hugely in the Jets game. You also read there's no time during the regular season to develop him because other QB's need the rep's. So when does he get ready?

 

If you bring back Tyrod, he plays and he's probably here a few more years. Where's the window for Cardale? If he's "not ready," how do you make him the 2nd QB even with EJ gone?

 

If you don't bring back Tyrod, someone else plays because Cardale's not ready. You pick up a serviceable vet and probably forget about the playoffs.

 

If you draft Watson at #10 (which appeals to me a lot), there's a better chance of him playing early -- like in 2017 -- than Cardale.

 

So what's the point of carrying Cardale? What are you supposed to do with him and when?

 

Some clarity is in order. This years QB draft class looks like it's one of the worst, and next year's seems like it might be one of the best.

 

So...

 

1. Move on from Taylor (he's the top end of the mediocre level we've come to expect at the position)

2. Sign a cheap veteran QB like Hoyer

3. Start Hoyer (or whoever) and when Jones gets even close to ready you play him till the end of the season.

4. If Jones doesn't cut it (looking at 4-12 record), you select your franchise QB for the next 10-15 years.

 

Bills fans should be able to wait one more year. Watch Cardale Jones when he gets his chance and also watch college football for the future QB of the Bills that they'll be picking in the 2018 draft.

[Alphadawg7]

 

Some clarity is in order. This years QB draft class looks like it's one of the worst, and next year's seems like it might be one of the best.

 

So...

 

1. Move on from Taylor (he's the top end of the mediocre level we've come to expect at the position)

2. Sign a cheap veteran QB like Hoyer

3. Start Hoyer (or whoever) and when Jones gets even close to ready you play him till the end of the season.

4. If Jones doesn't cut it (looking at 4-12 record), you select your franchise QB for the next 10-15 years.

 

Bills fans should be able to wait one more year. Watch Cardale Jones when he gets his chance and also watch college football for the future QB of the Bills that they'll be picking in the 2018 draft.

 

Here is the issue...this roster is too talented to lose 12 games. I mean we had the awful Orton/EJ combo and still won nine games, so if you bring in Hoyer I don't think we would lose 12 games, in fact, I think we would remain competitive.

 

Now, if Cardale was the starter and a disaster sure, then I think we could lose enough to be in the conversation for top pick...but this team would be too competitive still with Hoyer to compete for the top pick next year, or even a top 5 and probably not even get a top 10 pick.

[PolishDave]

The Bills coaching staff was happy with his development as the year went along. There was talk of it late in the year. He was a LONG way from playing when he came. He's closer now.

 

Fair enough.

 

I have no idea what he was looking like in practice. My opinion of him is based only on what I saw of him in preseason and the last Jet's game which is a very small sample.

 

Based on that very small sample, he looked better in the last preseason game than he looked in that last Jet's game. But to be fair, in preseason he was playing against other 2nds and 3rds compared to Jet's starters. So I guess there is that.

 

I would be pleasantly surprised if he made it to the number 2 spot at QB this year. That would tell me that the coaches thing he has improved a great deal.

 

I guess we will have a better idea after training camp and preseason. Or if he gets kicked to the curb before that, then we will know what the coaches and Whaley thought about his progress so far. Too bad we don't get to see those practices.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just to be clear the Bills are HAPPY with where Cardale is now not disappointed. He isn't going to be fighting for a roster spot or anything (unless he regresses quite a bit). He may even end up as the #2. Cardale was a project and I don't think that all Bills fans realized that. It was always going to take a few years. They aren't scrapping that plan now.

[PolishDave]

 

Some clarity is in order. This years QB draft class looks like it's one of the worst, and next year's seems like it might be one of the best.

 

So...

 

1. Move on from Taylor (he's the top end of the mediocre level we've come to expect at the position)

2. Sign a cheap veteran QB like Hoyer

3. Start Hoyer (or whoever) and when Jones gets even close to ready you play him till the end of the season.

4. If Jones doesn't cut it (looking at 4-12 record), you select your franchise QB for the next 10-15 years.

 

Bills fans should be able to wait one more year. Watch Cardale Jones when he gets his chance and also watch college football for the future QB of the Bills that they'll be picking in the 2018 draft.

 

Your strategy has the words TANK written all over it in big freaking letters. And that doesn't sell tickets or merchandise or bring new fans to the team.

Just to be clear the Bills are HAPPY with where Cardale is now not disappointed. He isn't going to be fighting for a roster spot or anything (unless he regresses quite a bit). He may even end up as the #2. Cardale was a project and I don't think that all Bills fans realized that. It was always going to take a few years. They aren't scrapping that plan now.

 

How do you know this? The only person you could be speaking about is Whaley right? Because the other guys are gone.

 

How do you know what this new coaching staff thinks about Cardale?

[rant_and_go]

Second half of the Jets game was some of the best QB play the Bills had all season.

Wow, a QB who throws over the middle.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Your strategy has the words TANK written all over it in big freaking letters. And that doesn't sell tickets or merchandise or bring new fans to the team.

 

 

How do you know this? The only person you could be speaking about is Whaley right? Because the other guys are gone.

 

How do you know what this new coaching staff thinks about Cardale?

I can only speak for the personnel side and the last coaching staff. I can't imagine that the new staff will be disappointed in progress though. No one thought that he was polished coming out so this probably is good news to them as well. "Hey we have this young guy with unbelievable physical tools and he took some steps last year."

[PolishDave]

 

Here is the issue...this roster is too talented to lose 12 games. I mean we had the awful Orton/EJ combo and still won nine games, so if you bring in Hoyer I don't think we would lose 12 games, in fact, I think we would remain competitive.

 

Now, if Cardale was the starter and a disaster sure, then I think we could lose enough to be in the conversation for top pick...but this team would be too competitive still with Hoyer to compete for the top pick next year, or even a top 5 and probably not even get a top 10 pick.

 

I disagree with how good you think the Bills would look under Hoyer.

 

I think you will see more passing regardless of who the QB is even if Tyrod stays.

 

However, if you have Hoyer back there passing the ball, fans are going to watch an offensive line that looks like it has regressed immensely in one single year. And people would be saying that our new offensive coordinator is a joke because he ruined a great offensive line. The running game would take a major step backward because without the extra long pocket time that Tyrod buys you, the deep passing threat would be almost non-existant. Defenses would put 8 in the box and blitz both run blitz and pass blitz a lot more often.

 

And fans would be like WTF? our defense got a lot better and our offense got a lot worse in one year. Go figure.....

 

I can only speak for the personnel side and the last coaching staff. I can't imagine that the new staff will be disappointed in progress though. No one thought that he was polished coming out so this probably is good news to them as well. "Hey we have this young guy with unbelievable physical tools and he took some steps last year."

 

Yeah I get that. It appeared that Lynn was high on the guy. Guess we will see after another preseason. If he is still on the team then the staff thinks he still has the potential to be a great one. Or maybe the guy earns #2 spot.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I disagree with how good you think the Bills would look under Hoyer.

 

I think you will see more passing regardless of who the QB is even if Tyrod stays.

 

However, if you have Hoyer back there passing the ball, fans are going to watch an offensive line that looks like it has regressed immensely in one single year. And people would be saying that our new offensive coordinator is a joke because he ruined a great offensive line. The running game would take a major step backward because without the extra long pocket time that Tyrod buys you, the deep passing threat would be almost non-existant. Defenses would put 8 in the box and blitz both run blitz and pass blitz a lot more often.

 

And fans would be like WTF? our defense got a lot better and our offense got a lot worse in one year. Go figure.....

 

 

Yeah I get that. It appeared that Lynn was high on the guy. Guess we will see after another preseason. If he is still on the team then the staff thinks he still has the potential to be a great one. Or maybe the guy earns #2 spot.

I would be shocked if they kicked him to the curb. They drafted him knowing it would take time. He showed progress which is what they hoped. I can't see them pulling the plug on the development. Ideally every team has a guy like that. In addition, he will never make it back to the practice squad. Edited February 4, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[PolishDave]

I would be shocked if they kicked him to the curb. They drafted him knowing it would take time. He showed progress which is what they hoped. I can't see them pulling the plug on the development. Ideally every team has a guy like that. In addition, he will never make it back to the practice squad.

 

I agree about the practice squad point. Probably get scooped up by somebody.

 

As far as being shocked about getting kicked to the curb - I wouldn't be. Simply because of the new staff. If McDermott doesn't like Cardale at all and the Bills have four QB's in preseason, then it wouldn't shock me if he got cut. That would just tell me that these coaches think completely differently about Cardale than Whaley does. I don't expect it to happen, but it isn't far-fetched for a 3rd string QB to end up getting cut due to opinion of new coaching staff. I think he is more likely to remain on the team than getting cut but only slightly more likely.

 

Well, it would be shocking if they cut him before camp this year.

Edited February 4, 2017 by PolishDave

[Wayne Cubed]

 

...he will then be fighting for the PS spot as we aren't dressing 3 QB's on Sunday and he is going to have to compete for that spot with the likely rookie or rookies we add to camp to...

They kept 3 QBs on the 53 last year and seeing as Whaley still has control of the 53, why would that change?

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I agree about the practice squad point. Probably get scooped up by somebody.

 

As far as being shocked about getting kicked to the curb - I wouldn't be. Simply because of the new staff. If McDermott doesn't like Cardale at all and the Bills have four QB's in preseason, then it wouldn't shock me if he got cut. That would just tell me that these coaches think completely differently about Cardale than Whaley does. I don't expect it to happen, but it isn't far-fetched for a 3rd string QB to end up getting cut due to opinion of new coaching staff. I think he is more likely to remain on the team than getting cut but only slightly more likely.

Maybe this is a better question, what would you rather do with your 3rd QB? Cardale is a lottery ticket (which is why he won't make it to the practice squad). He's a guy that you can keep inactive on gamedays and develop during practice. It is a much better use for a roster spot than Tuel or some other guy with a limited ceiling. That's the developmental spot and you have a great developmental prospect filling it. If he was a Kevin Hogan type guy then I could see it "get his guy is never going to be more than a #2." If you can use the 3rd QB spot for a guy with franchise QB upside you'd be foolish to not keep trying to develop him. The other prospects that you'd have competing for that spot almost certainly don't have his ceiling. In theory, that spot should never play so that factors in.

[dwight in philly]

i dont particularly like him.. have seen nothing that separates him from any of the other QB's we drafted that sucked.. granted his playing time was limited , but didnt hear much from the coaches to indicate he is (or was) lighting it up.. or will be..

Edited February 4, 2017 by dwight in philly

[PolishDave]

Maybe this is a better question, what would you rather do with your 3rd QB? Cardale is a lottery ticket (which is why he won't make it to the practice squad). He's a guy that you can keep inactive on gamedays and develop during practice. It is a much better use for a roster spot than Tuel or some other guy with a limited ceiling. That's the developmental spot and you have a great developmental prospect filling it. If he was a Kevin Hogan type guy then I could see it "get his guy is never going to be more than a #2." If you can use the 3rd QB spot for a guy with franchise QB upside you'd be foolish to not keep trying to develop him. The other prospects that you'd have competing for that spot almost certainly don't have his ceiling. In theory, that spot should never play so that factors in.

 

Your train of thought is very logical. Can't say that I disagree with any of it.

 

Just don't know anything about these new coaches yet. And we don't know what the QB pool is going to look like for the Bills in training camp. Those are the wildcards.

 

I have no issue whatsoever keeping a project guy with huge upside as QB #3. Condition: (He continues to improve at a reasonable rate.)

Edited February 4, 2017 by PolishDave

[Wayne Cubed]

 

Your train of thought is very logical. Can't say that I disagree with any of it.

 

Just don't know anything about these new coaches yet. And we don't know what the QB pool is going to look like for the Bills in training camp. Those are the wildcards.

 

I have no issue whatsoever keeping a project guy with huge upside as QB #3.

It'll be Whaley selling it to the new coaches, and it's the #3 spot. I can't imagine it's that much of a tough sell. He can say, "Take a look at him this year and make a decision next off season" at the very least. I don't think they would be pushing very hard for a different QB prospect for the #3 spot.