FireChan Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 I don't get why people don't understand this, you are absolutely right. I absolutely disagree, it's all about foresight and finding the right trade partner. if this team fielded offers for Gilly lock 2 years ago, he would've absolutely fetched a first from a playoff team with DB needs. With a pending contract on the table, not so much, a la Jamie Collins. Sam Bradford is another notable guy who was traded at the right time to the right team and fetched a 1st, even with a decent sized contract. Those other leagues throw around picks, but the NBA's "1st round" is not comparable to the NFL's. The top 10 or some years even 5 picks in the NBA are basically like 1sts in the NFL, because of the talent difference in prospects. A huge "sell-off" may not be completely lucrative, but you'd still get a return that would be used for the future. Even if Kyle WIlliams only results in a 4th or 5th rounder, that's better than him retiring in a season or 2 with us after another year of mediocrity. The Bills are going to make whatever decision they do about the organizations' future, but if they plan on going for a QB in 2018 or one in 2017 with a short term rebuild, you have to sell off some older guys or lose them for nothing. It's just that simple.
John from Riverside Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 Dallas went 4-12 in 2015 (the type of record a Tank brings) In 2016 they drafted EE with the fourth pick in the draft. That's a "no brainer". Then they picked up Jaylon Smith in round 2 (who did not play due to knee). Round 4 Dak.Prescott. 2016 record 13-3 - Playoffs. Meanwhile we are intrigued with Cardale Jones, and draft a guy who was hurt. 2016 record 7-9. Out for the 17th year in a row. Tank. puke....i will never root for this team to tank
BillsFanInJax Posted February 2, 2017 Author Posted February 2, 2017 From 2012 - 2015 74 Pro Bowlers have been drafted by NFL Teams. Bills drafted 1 - Stephon Gilmore and that was Buddy Nix's pick. Whaley gets a participation trophy. Tank, move up, and make it easier for him to draft blue chip talent.
GunnerBill Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 From 2012 - 2015 74 Pro Bowlers have been drafted by NFL Teams. Bills drafted 1 - Stephon Gilmore and that was Buddy Nix's pick. Whaley gets a participation trophy. Tank, move up, and make it easier for him to draft blue chip talent. Dareus? I know that was Nix as well but Dareus has been to a pro-bowl.
JohnC Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) This team is currently built to be a 6-10 to 10-6 team. With better coaching last year this 7-9 team could have been a 9-7 or maybe even stretching it to a 10-6 season. We are stuck in the middle of the pack. If one objectively reviews the caliber of our drafting we've had over the past 5 or so seasons it is difficult to believe that this organization's drafting prowess is at a level where with a low level rebuild the draft can provide the impetus to get us to the next level. TT is probably going to be retained this year and the following year. Does anyone really believe that based on how our front office had dealt with TT it is enthusiastic about its qb situation? Without deliberately trying to be pessimistic it seems to me that the way this roster is constructed and the status of our qb situation this franchise will continue to be a middle of the pack type team hoping to be a fringe wild-card team and continuing to fall short. side note: This team should do the right thing and trade Kyle Williams to the Cowboys so this honorable person can have an opportunity to play in a playoff game. It doesn't matter what we get back in the trade. He'll never have the experience of playing in the playoffs if he remains with the Bills. Do the right thing because he deserves better! Edited February 2, 2017 by JohnC
BillsFanInJax Posted February 2, 2017 Author Posted February 2, 2017 So that's two in six years - 0 picked by Whaley.
ProcessAccepted Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 If you match up talent for talent on paper, then maybe. But guys have to fit the scheme. And rebuild or reload. It doesn't matter what you want to call it. Just make smart roster moves and the arrow will start pointing up. I have no playoff expectations for next season. I want to se an organized, cohesive unit on the field. I don't disagree with you. I'd add the word accountability to the wish list though.
Tenhigh Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 Tanking is not pointless. Move up the board. Collect the best "blue chip" talent out there on both sides of the ball for 3 or 4 drafts. What you are suggesting the Bills have already done for the last 17 years. How did that work out? Are the Bills any closer? No. So your saying to tank for 3 or 4 years?
chris heff Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 I absolutely disagree, it's all about foresight and finding the right trade partner. if this team fielded offers for Gilly lock 2 years ago, he would've absolutely fetched a first from a playoff team with DB needs. With a pending contract on the table, not so much, a la Jamie Collins. Sam Bradford is another notable guy who was traded at the right time to the right team and fetched a 1st, even with a decent sized contract. Those other leagues throw around picks, but the NBA's "1st round" is not comparable to the NFL's. The top 10 or some years even 5 picks in the NBA are basically like 1sts in the NFL, because of the talent difference in prospects. A huge "sell-off" may not be completely lucrative, but you'd still get a return that would be used for the future. Even if Kyle WIlliams only results in a 4th or 5th rounder, that's better than him retiring in a season or 2 with us after another year of mediocrity. The Bills are going to make whatever decision they do about the organizations' future, but if they plan on going for a QB in 2018 or one in 2017 with a short term rebuild, you have to sell off some older guys or lose them for nothing. It's just that simple. I can't think of one example of an NFL team has made multiple trades of players for draft choices. I can think of a few single trades.like Herschel Walker, but did Dallas make any other significant trades that year?
bigK14094 Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 Tyrod back = reload. Tyrod gone = rebuild. I am a big TT fan......and agree keeping him is the way to go. Having said that......no way does reload apply........even with TT running the O. Reason....we are getting a new offense and defense.....and, the players will be learning a new system. That will have its bumps and missed assignments......and, really, the offensive and defensive systems are going to be rebuild........crazy Ryan D to a 4-3 ala Carolina/Philly. And the O will go from crazy ground and pound to a more balanced attack. (Yes, carryover special teams though)
BillsFanInJax Posted February 2, 2017 Author Posted February 2, 2017 1987 Bills, Rams, Colts Buffalo Traded For the Rights to Corneilus Bennett Colts Traded For Eric Dickerson Rams Received From Buffalo RB Greg Bell 88 1st 89 1st 89 Second Rams Received from Indy RB Owen Gill 88 1st 88 2nd 89 2nd
quinnearlysghost88 Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 We lost to the Jets twice. We only beat 2 good 2015 teams in the Cards and Bungles. Good catch. Must've been looking at jets jan 3 game from 2016.
GunnerBill Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 But we did beat the Jets twice the year they were good. I don't buy that there is no path to 10 wins for the Bills in 2017 but we will have to play better than we did in 2016 on the defensive side of the ball.
FireChan Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 I can't think of one example of an NFL team has made multiple trades of players for draft choices. I can think of a few single trades.like Herschel Walker, but did Dallas make any other significant trades that year? I mean, it was unheard of for a team to spend 2 high picks on QB's back to back, but they got Cam and it didn't really matter what the rest of the league thought.
Marty McFly Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 McDermy fixes the defense and tweaks the offense where it needs, and we got a shot at a WC. Reloaded. Tyrod back = reload. Tyrod gone = rebuild. This PAST PERFORMANCE DOES NOT GUARANTEE FUTURE RESULTS. Let's pretend it's Jan 2016. We look at our upcoming 2016-2017 schedule against 2015's records. 2015 record 2016 results Pats (12-4): W, L Jets (10-6): L, W Miami (6-10): L, L Cinci (12-4) W Pitt (10-6) LBalt (5-11) L Cleve (3-13) W Cards (13-3) W Sea (10-6) L LA (7-9) W SF (5-11) W Jags (5-11) WRaiders (7-9) L We beat previous 13-3, 12-4 (Brady-less), 12-4, and 10-6 teams. We lost to previous 7-9, 5-11, and 6-10 (twice) teams. There's no way to accurately predict any of this from the previous year. Too many variables. So you look at the 2017 schedule and what? You know that OAK is going to be good again? That DEN isn't just a middling 9-7 team without a QB? That the LA Chargers are going to do ANYTHING? That anyone in the NFC South isn't a one-year fluke (CAR, ATL). Btw, ATL pulled a NE by beating down a weak division (5-1 in the NFC S) to a first rd bye and home field. and this. We're a lot closer than many here think. Reload, and hope for better coaching. and this.
PatsFanNH Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 Dallas went 4-12 in 2015 (the type of record a Tank brings) In 2016 they drafted EE with the fourth pick in the draft. That's a "no brainer". Then they picked up Jaylon Smith in round 2 (who did not play due to knee). Round 4 Dak.Prescott. 2016 record 13-3 - Playoffs. Meanwhile we are intrigued with Cardale Jones, and draft a guy who was hurt. 2016 record 7-9. Out for the 17th year in a row. Tank. 😳 Did you not see the talent on O for that team the year they went 4-12? They had a dominant O line a stud WR AND TE they also had a pretty good QB go down early. They didn't tank they lost their QB. Tanking = wanting to lose in my mind.
GunnerBill Posted February 2, 2017 Posted February 2, 2017 I mean, it was unheard of for a team to spend 2 high picks on QB's back to back, but they got Cam and it didn't really matter what the rest of the league thought. True but Clausen was just THAT bad. And it was a 2nd wasn't it Clausen?
BillsFanInJax Posted February 2, 2017 Author Posted February 2, 2017 Same idea. Strategically move up the board to get the blue chip talent needed to have a chance to win consistently over a long period of time. Or stay the course and hope 9 wins is enough for a wild card game.
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