Kirby Jackson Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Not sure why you keep bringing up Tannehill. That guy isn't a long term answer at QB either. The Dolphins will waste another two years with him before making the decision to move on. The only reason on Tannehill is because they are a lot alike. You said that you had TT in a different tier than Tannehill. I was just asking why? I don't disagree that he is another okay starter. Steve Tasker said something a few weeks back that I think sums up all of these guys pretty well. "You can win with them but you don't win games because of them." That to me is the definition of a franchise QB. There are guys that you can't win with (Osweiler, Fitz, RG), guys that you can win with (the guys above) and guys that you win because of (Ryan, Rodgers, Brady, etc..). Edited January 31, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
Maury Ballstein Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Since when is football not a team game? The Tyrod haters seem to forget our defense and coaching were bad the past couple seasons. The Tyrod "haters" see Brandon Tate all alone in the end zone. Tyrod doesn't. 2016 bills make playoffs w Dalton > Taylor no ? Edited January 31, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
Coach Tuesday Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 The Tyrod haters see Brandon Tate all alone in the end zone. Tyrod doesn't. 2016 bills make playoffs w Dalton > Taylor no ? Hey Ryan? This is not a Tyrod thread, please go somewhere else if you're going to troll another thread with that stuff. Gunner, to me, the question is whether Shannahan Jr. views Trubinsky as a Matt Ryan-type player he can mold his offense around. If so, that will cause a run on QBs moving everyone up. If not, it's very possible there are QBs to be had in the middle to end of the round.
1billsfan Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 The only reason on Tannehill is because they are a lot alike. You said that you had TT in a different tier than Tannehill. I was just asking why? I don't disagree that he is another okay starter. Steve Tasker said something a few weeks back that I think sums up all of these guys pretty well. "You can win with them but you don't win games because of them." That to me is the definition of a franchise QB. There are guys that you can't win with (Osweiler, Fitz, RG), guys that you can win with (the guys above) and guys that you win because of (Ryan, Rodgers, Brady, etc..). What's your point here? You're splitting hairs. Do you strive for mediocrity? Is that what you want for the Bills? You're ok with being 8-8 forever as long as the league won't ever see you as the Browns? Are you hoping for a magical season where Taylor's game rises exponentially? Seriously, what's your point and end game here? Move on, turn the page, let's find another QB in the next two drafts to compete with Jones or make a blockbuster trade for Luck. Let's strive to get back to the Superbowl, not be forever "in the hunt" on the outside looking in. If that means we risk being a bottom team this year so be it. It makes your chances that much better to land Darnald.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Hey Ryan? This is not a Tyrod thread, please go somewhere else if you're going to troll another thread with that stuff. Gunner, to me, the question is whether Shannahan Jr. views Trubinsky as a Matt Ryan-type player he can mold his offense around. If so, that will cause a run on QBs moving everyone up. If not, it's very possible there are QBs to be had in the middle to end of the round. Hey coach. Scold the 8 posts before mine too please. The reason non Taylor fanboys are so interested in these qb's is because he must go. 1billsfan is the man your looking for. Tru/Watson/Mahomes should be our starter week 1 next year. Edited January 31, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
dpberr Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 This is a great post. Great review. Since no good deed goes unpunished, could you do the same for a couple other positions that seem to interest the board - say Safety and WR?
GunnerBill Posted January 31, 2017 Author Posted January 31, 2017 Gunner, to me, the question is whether Shannahan Jr. views Trubinsky as a Matt Ryan-type player he can mold his offense around. If so, that will cause a run on QBs moving everyone up. If not, it's very possible there are QBs to be had in the middle to end of the round. Coach I appreciate your efforts to keep the thread on topic... they may be in vain! You may well be right... if the Browns, Niners and Bears all pass on QBs (I find that hard to believe) the whole complexion of the 1st round changes. And we haven't got to trade up season yet. Maybe the Jets wanna get aggressive and offer the Browns a boat load of picks to get to #1 if they are really high on Trubisky?
Coach Tuesday Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 Hey coach. Scold the 8 posts before mine too please. The reason non Taylor fanboys are so interested in these qb's is because he must go. 1billsfan is the man your looking for. Tru/Watson/Mahomes should be our starter week 1 next year. Dude - knock it off - I'm reporting the next one.
FireChan Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 THIS IS NOT A TYROD THREAD Hey Ryan? This is not a Tyrod thread, please go somewhere else if you're going to troll another thread with that stuff. Gunner, to me, the question is whether Shannahan Jr. views Trubinsky as a Matt Ryan-type player he can mold his offense around. If so, that will cause a run on QBs moving everyone up. If not, it's very possible there are QBs to be had in the middle to end of the round. Dude - knock it off - I'm reporting the next one. You cannot stop the rising tide!
Kirby Jackson Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) What's your point here? You're splitting hairs. Do you strive for mediocrity? Is that what you want for the Bills? You're ok with being 8-8 forever as long as the league won't ever see you as the Browns? Are you hoping for a magical season where Taylor's game rises exponentially? Seriously, what's your point and end game here? Move on, turn the page, let's find another QB in the next two drafts to compete with Jones or make a blockbuster trade for Luck. Let's strive to get back to the Superbowl, not be forever "in the hunt" on the outside looking in. If that means we risk being a bottom team this year so be it. It makes your chances that much better to land Darnald. The point is just that I am trying to add perspective. Tyrod is Tannehill, not Fitzpatrick. Those are different. We need to have a clear understanding of what it is we are paying or moving on from. Let's pull all biases out and look at TT in comparison to his peers. He is an okay QB. Just to be clear in no way am I advocating for or against Tyrod in this thread. I do happen to believe that they are best off with him in 2017 but that's because I don't love the QBs in the draft. If this is being interpreted as Tyrod is perfect then I missed the mark. The entire purpose of what I have posted is to bring a broader understanding of the QB landscape across the league. We have these intuitive feelings but what do the facts say? They say that Tyrod is in a group of guys that are decent. He is being offered a contract that's a little less than those other decent guys. This isn't some giant overpayment that some perceive. It is actually decent value. At the same time that does not mean that picking it up is a no brainer. The question that I raised earlier I think is a valid one. "Would the Ravens, Dolphins, Chiefs, and Bengals sign those same contracts tomorrow?" P.S. Gunner I apologize for derailing the thread. I do think that it is important to provide some context to the current landscape when evaluating the class but it got a little sideways. You did some fantastic work here. Edited January 31, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
Maury Ballstein Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 Dude - knock it off - I'm reporting the next one. Have at it snitch. Only 15 other threads for you to report on. What would your optimal qb depth chart look like next year ?
quinnearlysghost88 Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 you've got me excited about Trubinsky now! damnit!
Luxy312 Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 That is not unfair. I think that Dalton and Smith have consistently played with the best teams. Those teams SHOULD be in the playoffs every year. If you gave Tyrod or Tannehill the same rosters that Dalton and Smith have I would expect the results to be very similar. It is a little strange to me how much Alex Smith has won; I can't quite figure it out. Flacco is the only one that has lifted his team at any point. If you look at the last 4 years combined, with Smith as the signal caller, he's been the benefactor of the second best defense in the league (only to Seattle). They have not allowed a lot of points and simply need a game manager, which is what they have.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) What I find interesting about this thread...a couple are using it (the same couple that hijack any thread they can to do so) to promote a "get rid of Tyrod" agenda as if this write up somehow proves these prospects are a better choice, when in reality, if you are going to agree with the OP analysis it actually does more to prove this is NOT an ideal draft to be looking for a QB as its overall rather weak. 1. OP ranked no QB higher than a mid round at best grade. 2. This write up is very much in line with what most people feel about this draft class, the subtle difference is the opinion in which order to rank the top 3. And that is there is not a single QB in the draft that grades out as either low risk or worthy of the top 10 despite the fact this is year with several very needy teams at QB. Assuming we keep Taylor, the Bills obviously are going to be bringing in more QB's, and I assume we likely add a vet in FA and another in the Draft and probably a 5th for camp that is UDFA I am guessing. Cardale is still a project, so they are not going to enter camp with him as our top option to be the backup clearly. He could win that job of course, but he isnt going to be the plan until he's proved he is ready (assuming he ever gets there as the kid is still pretty raw). What I think this write up does well is show that there are prospects we can target in the 3rd round or lower that are not that lower of a grade than any of the QB's in this draft. If we officially bring Taylor back as its believed we will, using either of our top 2 picks on a QB would be a colossal mistake. Especially with likely 3 of our 4 secondary positions needing to be filled with starters. We desperately need 2 safeties, and a DB most likely as all signs seem to be pointing to Gilmore leaving. I assume we probably fill at least one of those (probably CB) in FA, but that still leaves 2 more and we still need to bring in a WR and hopefully a RT took. Edited January 31, 2017 by Alphadawg7
FireChan Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 What I find interesting about this thread...a couple are using it (the same couple that hijack any thread they can to do so) to promote a "get rid of Tyrod" agenda as if this write up somehow proves these prospects are a better choice, when in reality, if you are going to agree with the OP analysis it actually does more to prove this is NOT an ideal draft to be looking for a QB as its overall rather weak. 1. OP ranked no QB higher than a mid round at best grade. 2. This write up is very much in line with what most people feel about this draft class, the subtle difference is the opinion in which order to rank the top 3. And that is there is not a single QB in the draft that grades out as either low risk or worthy of the top 10 despite the fact this is year with several very needy teams at QB. Assuming we keep Taylor, the Bills obviously are going to be bringing in more QB's, and I assume we likely add a vet in FA and another in the Draft and probably a 5th for camp that is UDFA I am guessing. Cardale is still a project, so they are not going to enter camp with him as our top option to be the backup clearly. He could win that job of course, but he isnt going to be the plan until he's proved he is ready (assuming he ever gets there as the kid is still pretty raw). What I think this write up does well is show that there are prospects we can target in the 3rd round or lower that are not that lower of a grade than any of the QB's in this draft. If we officially bring Taylor back as its believed we will, using either of our top 2 picks on a QB would be a colossal mistake. Especially with likely 3 of our 4 secondary positions needing to be filled with starters. We desperately need 2 safeties, and a DB most likely as all signs seem to be pointing to Gilmore leaving. I assume we probably fill at least one of those (probably CB) in FA, but that still leaves 2 more and we still need to bring in a WR and hopefully a RT took. That makes no sense.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 What I find interesting about this thread...a couple are using it (the same couple that hijack any thread they can to do so) to promote a "get rid of Tyrod" agenda as if this write up somehow proves these prospects are a better choice, when in reality, if you are going to agree with the OP analysis it actually does more to prove this is NOT an ideal draft to be looking for a QB as its overall rather weak. 1. OP ranked no QB higher than a mid round at best grade. 2. This write up is very much in line with what most people feel about this draft class, the subtle difference is the opinion in which order to rank the top 3. And that is there is not a single QB in the draft that grades out as either low risk or worthy of the top 10 despite the fact this is year with several very needy teams at QB. Assuming we keep Taylor, the Bills obviously are going to be bringing in more QB's, and I assume we likely add a vet in FA and another in the Draft and probably a 5th for camp that is UDFA I am guessing. Cardale is still a project, so they are not going to enter camp with him as our top option to be the backup clearly. He could win that job of course, but he isnt going to be the plan until he's proved he is ready (assuming he ever gets there as the kid is still pretty raw). What I think this write up does well is show that there are prospects we can target in the 3rd round or lower that are not that lower of a grade than any of the QB's in this draft. If we officially bring Taylor back as its believed we will, using either of our top 2 picks on a QB would be a colossal mistake. Especially with likely 3 of our 4 secondary positions needing to be filled with starters. We desperately need 2 safeties, and a DB most likely as all signs seem to be pointing to Gilmore leaving. I assume we probably fill at least one of those (probably CB) in FA, but that still leaves 2 more and we still need to bring in a WR and hopefully a RT took. Mid 1st round grade > 6th round grade It's funny the way you spin it too.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 That makes no sense. How does it make no sense to you? Did you read the OP? Not one prospect in the analysis he wrote and that you liked so much was rated higher than a mid round 1st. Top 10 is higher than the middle of the first. I did not say none would go in the top 10, but none of the QB's in his analysis or most experts analysis grade out in the top 15 prospects in this draft or as a top 10 pick. The only thing that differs most often is who the first QB is in the rankings. Kizer is the most common one listed first. So, if you want it to make more sense then ask the OP as it was his analysis I was referencing.
FireChan Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Mid 1st round grade > 6th round grade It's funny the way you spin it too. Alpha interchangeably uses "grade" and "mock" to suit his arguments. His delusion that QB's grades from independent evaluators are affected depending on how bad certain teams need QB's is proof positive he has no idea what he's talking about, just that he regurgitates WalterFootball opinions as "consensus." How does it make no sense to you? Did you read the OP? Not one prospect in the analysis he wrote and that you liked so much was rated higher than a mid round 1st. Top 10 is higher than the middle of the first. I did not say none would go in the top 10, but none of the QB's in his analysis or most experts analysis grade out in the top 15 prospects in this draft or as a top 10 pick. The only thing that differs most often is who the first QB is in the rankings. Kizer is the most common one listed first. So, if you want it to make more sense then ask the OP as it was his analysis I was referencing. See above. Edited January 31, 2017 by FireChan
Alphadawg7 Posted January 31, 2017 Posted January 31, 2017 Mid 1st round grade > 6th round grade It's funny the way you spin it too. Huh? What did I spin and what are you even talking about comparing a mid first and 6th? I literally very specifically stated that prospects available in the 3rd are not going to grade out much worse than the ones graded earlier, and again, it was the OP analysis (the same you are praising) that I was basing that on. Alpha interchangeably uses "grade" and "mock" to suit his arguments. His delusion that QB's grades from independent evaluators are affected depending on how bad certain teams need QB's is proof positive he has no idea what he's talking about, just that he regurgitates WalterFootball opinions as "consensus." See above. Man, you are literally the worst. Its not my fault you can't read the original post nor mine...nor comprehend the words when you try. Nothing in this thread has anything to do with a Mock draft. Its entirely about how the prospects are grading out. The original poster gave grades...NONE were higher than a mid first. Which I stated is in line with how most people are analyzing this draft class, that there isnt a QB that is considered a top 10 player in this draft. That by NO MEANS states none will go in the top 10. Teams will take who they want based on their evaluations and needs. And with so many QB needy teams in the top 10, I am sure someone will go there and I expect it to be Kizer. But keep trying to say I am saying things I didn't say FireChan, its about all you are capable of.
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