Dr. Who Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) He drafted 1 guy as the GM in the 4th round and he is entering his 2nd year!!! If you want to add EJ, I guess you can but keeping in mind that he wasn't the GM at the time of the draft. He has drafted fine. There are some areas that can improve but the Bills talent level is way up from when he got here. I don't know if you pay attention to the rest of the league but the Bills aren't trailing in talent. They failed in execution which is why they have hover around .500 even though the talent is a few games better. Well stated. And yet folks will continue to harp on Whaley and qbs. Post #25 in this thread is also excellent. Because of length, I didn't want to quote it. It's a nice way to analyze the qb situation. I agree with your overall sentiments, though I like Watson, so I would draft him if available. Edited January 27, 2017 by Dr. Who
BillsFanInJax Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Manuel was his guy. DW said so. Google it. You can watch it for yourself, He's drafted fine? 2016 - Jury is still out. All we know is Lawson was hurt at the time of the draft. 2015 - No First Round Pick. Darby regressed this year. John Miller - Solid Starter. Nick O'Leary - serviceable. 2014 - Overpaid for Watkins, Kouandjio - solid starter. Preston Brown - Solid Starter 4 Solid Starters in three years. That's not fine. That's below average.
BuffaloRebound Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 I've come around to those who advocate 'tanking' this season. We need to bottom out. Move on from Taylor. Go all in on Cardale. If by some small chance he shows something, you've got a long term QB. In the more likely scenario that he doesn't, you're most likely drafting in the top 3 and have a chance at drafting either a franchise QB or other top notch talent. Take Tyrods money and use it to retain woods and Gilmore, who are both young enough to still be good when we finally get good.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Manuel was his guy. DW said so. Google it. You can watch it for yourself, He's drafted fine? 2016 - Jury is still out. All we know is Lawson was hurt at the time of the draft. 2015 - No First Round Pick. Darby regressed this year. John Miller - Solid Starter. Nick O'Leary - serviceable. 2014 - Overpaid for Watkins, Kouandjio - solid starter. Preston Brown - Solid Starter 4 Solid Starters in three years. That's not fine. That's below average. Ragland, Lawson, Darby, Watkins, Miller, Preston Brown, Koundjio and potentially Seymour will start this year. I am counting up to 8 and probably at least 7 over 3 drafts. I don't need to google it. I have a VERY strong understanding of the way things work at OBD. Every decision made their is a group effort. I am sure that Whaley was on board with EJ. That doesn't mean that he banged the table for him. The one guy that the Bills were "all in" on was Watkins. He had a higher draft grade than anyone in their board in 2013 or 2014. They were certainly not alone in that thinking. The price was high but he is a superstar if healthy. His per game numbers support that.
BillsFanInJax Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Jury is still out on 2016 class. I find it best not to anoint players as solid starters until their performance shows that they are. OBD was definitely all in on Watkins because they thought they were closer to the playoffs than they were. Isn't part of Whaley's job to assess where the team stands relative to the competition? It is. He missed on that too. Now he's saying Bills are close. To what? 8-8 or 6-10?
Kirby Jackson Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Jury is still out on 2016 class. I find it best not to anoint players as solid starters until their performance shows that they are. OBD was definitely all in on Watkins because they thought they were closer to the playoffs than they were. Isn't part of Whaley's job to assess where the team stands relative to the competition? It is. He missed on that too. Now he's saying Bills are close. To what? 8-8 or 6-10? The Bills were all in because they thought that he was a special talent. He graded out like Julio Jones and Aj Green (and not just to them). The Bills saw a chance to get a superstar and pulled the trigger. No one is anointing Lawson or Ragland but if you don't think they will be starting in 2017 you are crazy.
Jauronimo Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 We aren't in disagreement. We have gotten great value to this point. We will simply be getting decent value when the contract kicks in. I don't see a guy that upgrades the position in this draft. I think that's it's much more likely, if we move on, that QB play regresses. I've said a bunch of times if there's a guy that improves QB play go get him. It seems to be lost on a few people here that you still need to play the upcoming season and fill a roster. We can't just forfeit and draft until we land a franchise QB.
BillsFanInJax Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Who at OBD decided Sammy Watkins was Julio Jones caliber? Not close.
thebandit27 Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Who at OBD decided Sammy Watkins was Julio Jones caliber? Not close. Unless, of course, you were to look at the numbers each player amassed in his first 3 NFL seasons...in which case, they're remarkably close.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Who at OBD decided Sammy Watkins was Julio Jones caliber? Not close. Actually through the 1st 3 years they are very comparable. The Bills had them graded out roughly the same and many teams were in that boat. Sammy was universally regarded as the top offensive player over a 2 year period at least. He was the highest graded receiver since 2011 as well. Sammy was a "can't miss" prospect. He had a high ceiling and a high floor.
BillsFanInJax Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Too steep a price for a flawed team with depth issues at multiple positions (QB, WR, S), but they paid it and now those issues are playing themselves out.
thebandit27 Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Too steep a price for a flawed team with depth issues at multiple positions (QB, WR, S), but they paid it and now those issues are playing themselves out. Completely different discussion
metzelaars_lives Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Yea let's start a guy who can't pass instead.You're more hung up on Taylor than Trump is on his hand size.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) You're more hung up on Taylor than Trump is on his hand size.Yes I spend too much time here and watching the bills. I'd prefer it not sucking again next year by playing the ball patter who can't throw slants or see guys wide open in the EZ. Say the word McDermott. Get this bum outta town. Or I could drive another 4 hours and spend 200.00 to watch Taylor open the season with another 111 yard day. Edited January 27, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
BillsFanInJax Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Yep, and OBD will keep telling everybody that they are still getting "good value" from Tyrod and that overpaying for players is part of the business in Buffalo.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Yep, and OBD will keep telling everybody that they are still getting "good value" from Tyrod and that overpaying for players is part of the business in Buffalo.When did they ever say overpaying players is part of the business on Buffalo? His contract calls for him to be one of the lowest paid starting vets in the league. Again I don't know how that's not "good value?" His production is exceeding that contract compared to the rest of the league. He would get that much on the open market. The contract value isn't out of whack at all. That's a totally different argument than "should they pick up the option?" If you don't think that he can get you where you need to go then maybe you shouldn't pay it. Teams to this point have paid the Bradford's, Tannehill's, Dalton's, Kaepernick's, Osweiler's and Alex Smith's of the world. The Bills would be bucking a trend. They'd be the 1st team to move on from a pretty good QB. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it would be different.
BillsFanInJax Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Did they overpay Mario Williams? Yep. How about Dareus? Yep. Look at the QB's you listed. Which one is going to the Super Bowl first? None of them. So those teams are just "kicking the can" at the QB position. The Bills would be best suited to stop "kicking the can". Move on from TT, bottom out, move up in the draft and get their franchise guy for the next 10 years. Certainly not popular, but necessary if the Bills are truly committed to winning long term. Again, I'm not certain DW is the guy to lead that effort either. His drafts, in my opinion, have been below average.
GoBills808 Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 When did they ever say overpaying players is part of the business on Buffalo? His contract calls for him to be one of the lowest paid starting vets in the league. Again I don't know how that's not "good value?" His production is exceeding that contract compared to the rest of the league. He would get that much on the open market. The contract value isn't out of whack at all. That's a totally different argument than "should they pick up the option?" If you don't think that he can get you where you need to go then maybe you shouldn't pay it. Teams to this point have paid the Bradford's, Tannehill's, Dalton's, Kaepernick's, Osweiler's and Alex Smith's of the world. The Bills would be bucking a trend. They'd be the 1st team to move on from a pretty good QB. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it would be different. Wait... maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but half of those guys were let go by their original team. The Bills wouldn't be the first. And I think 'pretty good' is eminently debatable.
BillsFanInJax Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 The other part of that equation is Tom Brady. He want to play 5 more years. Position the Franchise to be dominant after Brady retires.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 27, 2017 Posted January 27, 2017 Wait... maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but half of those guys were let go by their original team. The Bills wouldn't be the first. And I think 'pretty good' is eminently debatable. Thats the middle tier of the league (except Osweiler). The Eagles let Bradford go because they got a 1st and drafted Wentz. The 49ers had Kaep and got the 1st pick of the 2nd round for Alex Smith. Both teams had a replacement in mind. Bradford went to Philly for Foles who was another mid tier guy at the time. Osweiler is the only guy that was allowed to walk in FA and that's after Denver offered him more that $15M per year. If the Bills are going to get a 1st for Tyrod they should certainly consider it. Houston maybe? Teams haven't just walked away from pretty good QBs unless they had the replacement there. The Bills won't have that in place with Tyrod's bonus kicking in at the beginning of the league year.
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