Kelly "Best QB ever for the Bills"/ Who is number 2?

[transient]

What? No love for the Chroisen One?

Edited January 26, 2017 by transient

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I disagree, his teams had good talent in 74-75 and 80-81, but not championship talent like Kemp did. And, to say Fergie wasn't very good is just not true. He was a good QB.

 

I'll probably get heckled for this, but Fergie was kind of the Fitz of his day. When he was "on" he could be terrific, but he would throw the most boneheaded INTs at the worst time.

It also seemed to be known that if you could hit him hard a few times he'd get rattled and start making mistakes. Probably a better QB than he gets credit for, but not better than Kemp.

#2.. who thinks about #2? It was someone else that was bad b.c the Bills only had one really good QB.

 

Youngster. Not true.

[baskingridgebillsfan]

Ferguson . it is a weak list. you are argue Flutie is top 5 with the two old times.

[Bills!Win!]

The answer is obviously Vince young

Edited January 26, 2017 by Bills!Win!

[hondo in seattle]

Ferguson . it is a weak list. you are argue Flutie is top 5 with the two old times.

 

A very weak list. And I get the Fergy vote.

 

In his prime, maybe '79 to '81, he was a good QB who was capable of making big throws. In 1979, he had the 8th highest yardage total in the NFL, right behind Roger Staubach. in 1981, he was 6th in yards - ahead of Joe Theisman, Joe Montana, Doug Williams, and Terry Bradshaw.

 

Earlier in his career, Fergy's main function was to be a game manager and hand the ball to OJ. Later in his career, his skills were in decline. But there was a moment in between when he was pretty good.

[Kirby Jackson]

I'm going to be really honest and present an unpopular opinion. Jim Kelly wasn't even that good. He was a very good QB but has been overrated historically. I'm not sure that he was a top 5 talent on those teams. He was without question the best QB that we have ever had and very good in his prime. I'm not sure that he's one of the 20 best ever though. I haven't thought about the list but there are a lot of guys that pop into my head that are (or were) better.

[HT02]

I wouldn't say they're meaningless, although they're certainly not useful in comparing players of different eras.

The reason I say NFL stats are so meaningless is because there are so many variables and the numbers can be so dramatically influenced by the game situations, even within an era.

 

As an example, during the 80s and 90s (when the passing game wasn't as open as it is today) if you looked at the 300 yard passers after each game often time the biggest numbers were put up by the LOSING QB not the winner because the winning team would open up a sizable lead and go to ground and pound to kill the clock while conversely the losing team would stop running the football and start throwing the ball on every down often into prevent defenses. As a result the passing yards for the losing team and rushing yards for the loser didn't represent the actual performance.

The answer is obviously Vince young

How could I forget!

It must be very crowded on the bandwagon!

He's from NH so I don't think its fair to accuse him of jumping on the Patriot bandwagon.

[vorpma]

1. Kelly

2. Kemp

3. Ferguson

4. Flutie

5. Taylor

[Augie]

He's from NH so I don't think its fair to accuse him of jumping on the Patriot bandwagon.

The fact that he's even here says he's probably the real deal. But..........The Bandwagon Crowd is everywhere! There was an entire family at my kids HS in Florida who had to wear NE gear to every HS basketball game. Their kids were ridiculously awful, but the dad was so into sports the kids had to give it a shot. One of them actually set some kind of world record by fouling out in about 90 seconds. And they just LOVED the Patriots and there was no avoiding it. Ugh....

Edited January 26, 2017 by Augie

[Uffalo Ills]

1. Kelly

2. Mad Bomber

3. Kemp

4. Flutie

5a. Tyrod

5b. Ferguson

[Lenigmusx]

Sad is an understatement.

 

Fergie had great talent around him. OJ, Cribbs, Butler, Frank Lewis, Chandler and one of the best O lines of that era. He wasn't very good.

His O-line was only OK is his best seasons. Fergie was one of the top passers in the AFC from 1979-1983. His career really had three phases. Many forget that had he not sprained his ankle so badly in the 1980 playoff's the Bills may have been playing for that Super Bowl and not the raiders. They had beaten both the raiders and San Diego during the regular seasons. I still believe that if Fergie was healthy they win and play the raiders in Buffalo for there first shot at a super bowl. Fergie was good.

[Uffalo Ills]

I suggest another way to answer this question is to consider how well a player would have done in another player's era.

-- Jim Kelly would have been great in any era. Tough player, very good passer, excellent leader. He did benefit from excellent players around him, but his own skills were really excellent.

-- Jack Kemp was very effective in his era, very good leader, very strong arm, not terribly accurate as a passer -- completion percentage below 50%. He might have been pretty good in today's game but his inaccuracy would have held the team back. QBs now have to be able to get the ball into very tight windows to defeat sophisticated defenses. Not so much in the 60s.

-- Joe Ferguson was pretty good, and his game would have worked OK earlier and later. I think if you put Ferguson into the Bills teams of the 60s, he would not have done as well as Kemp, because Ferguson wasn't as good a leader, and the NFL in those days was more about unity of purpose than individual accomplishments. If you put Ferguson into the Bills team of today, I think he'd have them in the playoffs but not the SB.

-- I don't know why Fitz isn't talked about as a candidate at least to be on the list. He had his stinkers of games but they all did. He's gotten worse since he left the Bills but while he was here he did OK. I think he would have been more effective in the 60s game than he was in the 2000s while here. On the 60s teams, he'd be better than Kemp was.

-- Lamonica didn't play all that well while he was here. He couldn't even beat out Kemp as the starter. Sure, he did great elsewhere, but so did Bledsoe. I'm looking at what players did while actually with the Bills.

-- Flutie was entertaining and frustrating. He would have been entertaining and frustrating in any era. Not as good a passer as Taylor, not really as good a runner as Taylor, much more divisive than Taylor. Flutie was about Flutie, and TT at least has the team's best interest at heart. How could you put Flutie on the list and not include Taylor?

-- The most talented passer, other than Kelly, was Rob Johnson. By far not the best QB. Not on my list.

 

1. Kelly

2. Ferguson

3. Kemp

4. Fitz

5. TT

The defense had the team in the playoffs those years.

Jack Kemp was the 60s version of Michael Vick. Awesome arm and escapability, but not terribly accurate.

[Greybeard]

Kemp was awful and to say otherwise means you were too young to actually watch him. That team won championships is spite of Kemp. Great coach, one of the best D's ever imo, and the Cookie G won it all

 

That's mostly true, because back then home games weren't televised, and we didn't have the money to go to the games. I scarcely remember watching Kemp play but I've read a lot about the 60s team's success and subsequent collapse.

 

I should point out that we had Cookie in 64 but not in 65. Saban traded him to Denver before the 65 season.

 

The Kemp of the championship teams was the team leader and game manager. He was a decent passer. He was good enough to direct those teams to conference championships. The Kemp of the late 60's lost his arm strength and could not throw a sideline pass. Unfortunately, he kept trying. I used to say he was excellent at isolating the linebacker, for the interception. As bad as he was at that point and as much as I hated him then, you still have to give him credit for those previous years.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

His O-line was only OK is his best seasons. Fergie was one of the top passers in the AFC from 1979-1983. His career really had three phases. Many forget that had he not sprained his ankle so badly in the 1980 playoff's the Bills may have been playing for that Super Bowl and not the raiders. They had beaten both the raiders and San Diego during the regular seasons. I still believe that if Fergie was healthy they win and play the raiders in Buffalo for there first shot at a super bowl. Fergie was good.

Thank You! I agree with this 100%. He gets crapped on by a lot of people on this board. His 1975 season was terrific as well given the context of the times. That offense I have always thought was the best Bills offense ever and one of the better NFL ones. #1 in scoring and yards against a really tough schedule.

Edited January 26, 2017 by horned dogs

[Greybeard]

His O-line was only OK is his best seasons. Fergie was one of the top passers in the AFC from 1979-1983. His career really had three phases. Many forget that had he not sprained his ankle so badly in the 1980 playoff's the Bills may have been playing for that Super Bowl and not the raiders. They had beaten both the raiders and San Diego during the regular seasons. I still believe that if Fergie was healthy they win and play the raiders in Buffalo for there first shot at a super bowl. Fergie was good.

Totally agree with this. The guy was underrated because he happen to look down while walking off the field.

[Rico]

 

I'll probably get heckled for this, but Fergie was kind of the Fitz of his day. When he was "on" he could be terrific, but he would throw the most boneheaded INTs at the worst time.

It also seemed to be known that if you could hit him hard a few times he'd get rattled and start making mistakes. Probably a better QB than he gets credit for, but not better than Kemp.

 

Youngster. Not true.

[VABills]

Travis Henry

[PatsFanNH]

The fact that he's even here says he's probably the real deal. But..........The Bandwagon Crowd is everywhere! There was an entire family at my kids HS in Florida who had to wear NE gear to every HS basketball game. Their kids were ridiculously awful, but the dad was so into sports the kids had to give it a shot. One of them actually set some kind of world record by fouling out in about 90 seconds. And they just LOVED the Patriots and there was no avoiding it. Ugh....

lol basketball now there is a sport I am GAWD AWFUL at. I played in 8th grade upmhere and the coach told me to stop the kid a clean path to the net... so inhip checked him.. immediately got kicked out of the game lol.

[BearNorth]

I grew up during the Kemp era. People forget what a tough SOB he was. He had an amazing number of TD's for scores, and used to get clobbered as he was fighting for the goal line in x and goal situations. He had 8 rushing TD's in '63, 5 in '64 [Champs] and 4 in '65 [Champs]. Not seeing a lot of today's China doll QB's with that kind of fortitude. Kelly had 4 AFC titles, Kemp had two titles and two MVP's.

[Lenigmusx]

Good Ferguson highlights! Reminds of this years Bills a lot.

 

https://youtu.be/445y6xe_xog