Mark80 Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 So did EJ Anyone who watched any FSU games while EJ was QB and compares him to Watson's performances at Clemson is completely blind or has zero knowledge of football.
jeffismagic Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Going back just 2 drafts, see the 2014 draft. 3 QB's worth taking after the first 3 picks. 1 32 Teddy Bridgewater QB Louisville Minnesota Vikings 2 36 Derek Carr QB Fresno State Oakland Raiders 2 62 Jimmy Garoppolo QB Eastern Illinois New England Patri Carr obviously. Bridgewater looked very good prior to the horrific injury. Garappolo unknown but looked like a very good player when he got in real game action. Bills need to step up and swing and not let EJ ruin them on doing that.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 he's the guy i really like. i mean he has the work ethic, the athleticism, the head on his shoulders etc. Said everyone about EJ too...
jeffismagic Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) Said everyone about EJ too... EJ had it all. Except "it". Ability to perform when the lights come on. I bet EJ looks great in practice. Edited January 25, 2017 by jeffismagic
Mr. WEO Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Going back just 2 drafts, see the 2014 draft. 3 QB's worth taking after the first 3 picks. 1 32 Teddy Bridgewater QB Louisville Minnesota Vikings 2 36 Derek Carr QB Fresno State Oakland Raiders 2 62 Jimmy Garoppolo QB Eastern Illinois New England Patri Carr obviously. Bridgewater looked very good prior to the horrific injury. Garappolo unknown but looked like a very good player when he got in real game action. Bills need to step up and swing and not let EJ ruin them on doing that. Bridgewater doesn't do anything better than TT. Little was asked of Teddy---and on this he delivered.
jeffismagic Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Bridgewater doesn't do anything better than TT. Little was asked of Teddy---and on this he delivered. Well, TT has reached his ceiling. These other QB's have a chance at surpassing him. I would like the Bills to have a plan beyond next year.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 @TBNSports Whaley: #Bills respect Deshaun Watson's decision to skip #SeniorBowl. @viccarucci from @seniorbowl at [bN] Blitz: http://bit.ly/2jwQXoR
jeffismagic Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 @TBNSports Whaley: #Bills respect Deshaun Watson's decision to skip #SeniorBowl. @viccarucci from @seniorbowl at [bN] Blitz: http://bit.ly/2jwQXoR Rivers played in the Senior Bowl and elevated himself. People were saying late 1st/early 2nd and then Rivers went top 5. Give me guys that want to compete.
aristocrat Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Said everyone about EJ too... well let me add that he threw for a lot of yards and tds against a lot of really good teams on huge stages. something ej didn't do. taking watson is a risk but i'd say a very low risk.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) EJ had it all. Except "it". Ability to perform when the lights come on. I bet EJ looks great in practice. And in the post I replied to, "It" factor was not listed as part of Watson description...the things I replied to were all things said about EJ. But you are also wrong on about what you just said. One of the biggest feathers in EJ's cap coming out of college was his alleged "IT" factor as a leader in the locker room and on the field. Being undefeated in Bowl Games, having his best games during them, and playing big in big moments. In fact, that was one of the things that people latched on to to justify reaching for a 2nd round graded QB in the first. He was drawing comparisons to Ray Lewis in the locker room and his pre bowl game speeches were circulating on this board like crazy. He was touted as a big time leader and that was what a lot of people were most enamored with about EJ. The questions were that his on field production over his career wasn't over whelming, but he blew people away with his interviews and potential as a Leader and field general. Watching him play and badly not live up to those expectations has made people forget about that, so I understand why you would say or think that. But ultimately, he had a lot more of "It" factor buzz than on field production buzz coming out of the draft. He was seen as a guy with all the physical gifts and leadership skills and people felt the offensive system was why his on field production wasn't as high as you would like to see. well let me add that he threw for a lot of yards and tds against a lot of really good teams on huge stages. something ej didn't do. taking watson is a risk but i'd say a very low risk. How is it a very low risk when any QB prospect is always way more often a bust than a hit? All QB prospects are a big risk as most will fail. Taking ones with questionable skills at the NFL level in terms of passing, is an even bigger risk. So I respectfully disagree with the "low" risk assessment. Especially when we could take an Elite WR or S prospect there to help get this team over the hump this year. Edited January 25, 2017 by Alphadawg7
jeffismagic Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 And in the post I replied to, "It" factor was not listed as part of Watson description...the things I replied to were all things said about EJ. But you are also wrong on about what you just said. One of the biggest feathers in EJ's cap coming out of college was his alleged "IT" factor as a leader in the locker room and on the field. Being undefeated in Bowl Games, having his best games during them, and playing big in big moments. In fact, that was one of the things that people latched on to to justify reaching for a 2nd round graded QB in the first. He was drawing comparisons to Ray Lewis in the locker room and his pre bowl game speeches were circulating on this board like crazy. He was touted as a big time leader and that was what a lot of people were most enamored with about EJ. The questions were that his on field production over his career wasn't over whelming, but he blew people away with his interviews and potential as a Leader and field general. Watching him play and badly not live up to those expectations has made people forget about that, so I understand why you would say or think that. But ultimately, he had a lot more of "It" factor buzz than on field production buzz coming out of the draft. He was seen as a guy with all the physical gifts and leadership skills and people felt the offensive system was why his on field production wasn't as high as you would like to see. Having "it" in the NFL and college are two different animals.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) Having "it" in the NFL and college are two different animals. But neither Watson or EJ had ever even stepped on an NFL field going into the draft, so what does "NFL" have to do with this? I just pointed out that it was incorrect to say that EJ did not have the "It" factor when we drafted him. He actually did, and that was actually the main reason he was over drafted even though his on field production wasn't near what you would like to see out of a first round QB. Edited January 25, 2017 by Alphadawg7
Kirby Jackson Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Going back just 2 drafts, see the 2014 draft. 3 QB's worth taking after the first 3 picks. 1 32 Teddy Bridgewater QB Louisville Minnesota Vikings 2 36 Derek Carr QB Fresno State Oakland Raiders 2 62 Jimmy Garoppolo QB Eastern Illinois New England Patri Carr obviously. Bridgewater looked very good prior to the horrific injury. Garappolo unknown but looked like a very good player when he got in real game action. Bills need to step up and swing and not let EJ ruin them on doing that. The Bills have a guy now though that's giving what Bridgewater and Jimmy G are. Those guys have to improve to get to his level. That can surpass him but there's no guarantee that they even get to the level. If you use Gunners list of elite, franchise and next generation guys the percentages are low. There were 32 guys drafted in rounds 1 or 2 since 2006 (excluding the top 3 picks) and only Carr and Flacco fall into one of those categories. A few others, as you indicated, MAY elevate to that point but 1 out of every 16 (6.25%) isn't good odds. I don't think swinging is the strategy, getting to the top of the draft is. That's how you increase your chances. The more I've studied the odds the more I'm convinced that the play is to get another 1st in 2018.
jeffismagic Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 But neither Watson or EJ had ever even stepped on an NFL field going into the draft, so what does "NFL" have to do with this? I just pointed out that it was incorrect to say that EJ did not have the "It" factor when we drafted him. He actually did, and that was actually the main reason he was over drafted even though his on field production wasn't near what you would like to see out of a first round QB. I'm not arguing with you. Just saying that some players do well in the NFL when the lights come on. Brady looked the part in his first pre-season game. In the 2000 preseason, the 49ers and the Patriots played a game that foreshadowed the futures of Carmazzi and the quarterback drafted 134 spots behind him. Thrown in for a quarter against the Patriots’ first-team defense, Carmazzi looked nervous and overwhelmed. He completed three of seven passes and was sacked twice. Brady appeared in one mop-up series for the Patriots and showed poise and precision, connecting on three of four passes. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/03/sports/football/03draft.html
Gordio Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 EJ had it all. Except "it". Ability to perform when the lights come on. I bet EJ looks great in practice. Obviously you weren't there at training camp the time EJ sailed a pass so far out of bounds it end up drilling the top of the guest tent, about 20 yards out of bounds.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 I'm not arguing with you. Just saying that some players do well in the NFL when the lights come on. Brady looked the part in his first pre-season game. In the 2000 preseason, the 49ers and the Patriots played a game that foreshadowed the futures of Carmazzi and the quarterback drafted 134 spots behind him. Thrown in for a quarter against the Patriots’ first-team defense, Carmazzi looked nervous and overwhelmed. He completed three of seven passes and was sacked twice. Brady appeared in one mop-up series for the Patriots and showed poise and precision, connecting on three of four passes. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/03/sports/football/03draft.html Im not arguing either, just stating that Watson has never stepped on an NFL field...so the only thing we can compare was how was EJ perceived PRIOR to the draft. Someone had said Watson has the "It" factor where EJ did not...I was just correcting that statement because people forget the 2 biggest things about EJ coming out were his physical gifts, work ethic, and "it" factor as a field general on and off the field. He clearly did not live up to any of that, but again, this is just a discussion of PRE draft labels.
jeffismagic Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Im not arguing either, just stating that Watson has never stepped on an NFL field...so the only thing we can compare was how was EJ perceived PRIOR to the draft. Someone had said Watson has the "It" factor where EJ did not...I was just correcting that statement because people forget the 2 biggest things about EJ coming out were his physical gifts, work ethic, and "it" factor as a field general on and off the field. He clearly did not live up to any of that, but again, this is just a discussion of PRE draft labels. Yes, I understand that you are saying that there is a college "it" factor and EJ was fine there. Ok. But I never said that it factor was something that could be viewed through a college lens. All I wanted to say was that at the NFL level, a different game than college, some QB's have it and some don't. Most people move down players that perform poorly at the college level but that hasn't been enough to find the diamonds as EJ, Tim Tebow, Johnny Football all were college winners.
aristocrat Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 And in the post I replied to, "It" factor was not listed as part of Watson description...the things I replied to were all things said about EJ. But you are also wrong on about what you just said. One of the biggest feathers in EJ's cap coming out of college was his alleged "IT" factor as a leader in the locker room and on the field. Being undefeated in Bowl Games, having his best games during them, and playing big in big moments. In fact, that was one of the things that people latched on to to justify reaching for a 2nd round graded QB in the first. He was drawing comparisons to Ray Lewis in the locker room and his pre bowl game speeches were circulating on this board like crazy. He was touted as a big time leader and that was what a lot of people were most enamored with about EJ. The questions were that his on field production over his career wasn't over whelming, but he blew people away with his interviews and potential as a Leader and field general. Watching him play and badly not live up to those expectations has made people forget about that, so I understand why you would say or think that. But ultimately, he had a lot more of "It" factor buzz than on field production buzz coming out of the draft. He was seen as a guy with all the physical gifts and leadership skills and people felt the offensive system was why his on field production wasn't as high as you would like to see. How is it a very low risk when any QB prospect is always way more often a bust than a hit? All QB prospects are a big risk as most will fail. Taking ones with questionable skills at the NFL level in terms of passing, is an even bigger risk. So I respectfully disagree with the "low" risk assessment. Especially when we could take an Elite WR or S prospect there to help get this team over the hump this year. jameis had a lot of baggage with him coming out not even getting into his throwing motion. i think watson is a safer prospect than jameis. i think watson's floor is your average starter kind of like joe flacco who is your steady starter. That's a guy that gets you around 4000 yards of total offense a year.
JohnC Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 I wouldn't trade up for him. I wouldn't totally hate it if they did... but I wouldn't if I was the GM. I would take him at 10 though if he got there. There may be 2018 QBs that it might be worth moving up for. So far I haven't got into them enough to have a strong view. Would you trade down in the first round for Mahomes? Would you consider Trubisky at the 10th spot if Watson is not available? Having a bridge qb on the roster (assuming TT is retained) is a good situation to bring a good qb prospect in now. The waiting until next year is an approach that we have followed for a generation.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Would you trade down in the first round for Mahomes? Would you consider Trubisky at the 10th spot if Watson is not available? Having a bridge qb on the roster (assuming TT is retained) is a good situation to bring a good qb prospect in now. The waiting until next year is an approach that we have followed for a generation. It's more about who, than when. There is no reason to draft a guy in any year unless you think that he can be a franchise guy. Don't ever take a guy because it's time to take a guy. You need to identify the right guys and pull the trigger in any year.
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