HT02 Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Watching Brady dismantle the Steelers (again) and hearing the announcers talking about how Brady loves to face a zone defense and how bad it was for the Steelers to continue to play zone against him my memory flashed back to this article from the Bills website: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/5-differences-to-expect-in-Sean-McDermotts-defense/410476f5-5ef0-4c2d-88c0-6c223b97d6c1 The article titled "5 differences to expect in Sean McDermott's defense" has this as the first point. "1 - Lots of zone In stark contrast to Buffalo’s previous man coverage scheme, McDermott’s scheme plays a good deal of zone coverage. Cover 3 along with Cover 2 and Cover 4 are among the more popular calls on the back end of his defense. “In Carolina they played a lot of zone under McDermott,” Kelso said. “When they went to the Super Bowl they were playing a ton of Cover 3 with basic zone defense and had linebackers that really understood leverage control and where to drop and whether they needed to be inside or outside of receivers. “McDermott’s defense is going to be more of a base type defense and guys will understand where they need to be and when they need to be there as opposed to being in man coverage. Rex played a lot of man, sometimes some two-man. They didn’t have any one thing that they settled on, but it was more of an aggressive man defense with combination coverages. “It’s more of a match zone. You’re not dropping to a spot on the field. You’re dropping to a spot in relation to where a receiver would be in your area of the field.”" I feel like I am watching one of those documentaries that dissect a disaster that happened and go through the time line of events that led up to it.
MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) NFL DCs are stupid when it comes to stopping Brady the blueprint has been out there for years. Pressure in the Middle and Tight coverage at the line. I just do not get why they ALWAYS want to get in Zone coverage and let their little quick WRs have space off the line. Specially when Gronk is not playing. Edited January 23, 2017 by MAJBobby
HT02 Posted January 23, 2017 Author Posted January 23, 2017 Defensive DCs are stupid when it comes to stopping Brady the blueprint has been out there for years. Pressure in the Middle and Tight coverage at the line. I just do not get why they ALWAYS want to get in Zone coverage and let their little quick WRs have space off the line. Specially when Gronk is not playing. I couldn't agree more, every time he has a bad game or loses its the same formula that you just wrote.
snafu Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 NFL DCs are stupid when it comes to stopping Brady the blueprint has been out there for years. Pressure in the Middle and Tight coverage at the line. I just do not get why they ALWAYS want to get in Zone coverage and let their little quick WRs have space off the line. Specially when Gronk is not playing. Agree. It always strikes me as odd that most teams don't adjust their defensive scheme to fit their opponent.
MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Agree. It always strikes me as odd that most teams don't adjust their defensive scheme to fit their opponent. Steelers did. And they went away from what actually works against Brady. I have NEVER seen Steelers with Harrison in coverage so much and only rush 3 as much as I seen them Sunday do it.
prissythecat Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 NFL DCs are stupid when it comes to stopping Brady the blueprint has been out there for years. Pressure in the Middle and Tight coverage at the line. I just do not get why they ALWAYS want to get in Zone coverage and let their little quick WRs have space off the line. Specially when Gronk is not playing. This only works if there is sufficient talent on the defense? Houston certainly had the talent . Pittsburgh not so much
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 NFL DCs are stupid when it comes to stopping Brady the blueprint has been out there for years. Pressure in the Middle and Tight coverage at the line. I just do not get why they ALWAYS want to get in Zone coverage and let their little quick WRs have space off the line. Specially when Gronk is not playing. I was talking to my Steelers' fans buddies about this, and they were irate that they stuck with a zone. NE has been picking apart the Steelers zone for years. In fact, the only reason that the Steelers have two super bowls over the last decade is that they didn't have to play NE in the playoffs. To answer your question though, I wonder if teams stick with zone because of personnel. If you don't have good physical cover corners, then trying to play press man could be even worse. I don't think the Steelers have that.
MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 I was talking to my Steelers' fans buddies about this, and they were irate that they stuck with a zone. NE has been picking apart the Steelers zone for years. In fact, the only reason that the Steelers have two super bowls over the last decade is that they didn't have to play NE in the playoffs. To answer your question though, I wonder if teams stick with zone because of personnel. If you don't have good physical cover corners, then trying to play press man could be even worse. I don't think the Steelers have that. Could be, but I have seen teams that have those Press Corners (granted one was Rex) not play those little WRs physical off the line. Really the only player that could have out physicalled the Steelers defenders was up in the box with Bon Jovi. I take my Chance beating up Edleman at the line anyday over giving him a free release and use his quickness to exploit my BIG LBers in zone. If the Steelers were going to play that type of game it is Horrible that they had Timmons, Harrison stay in the game. Shazier I get has much better speed. but to be in Zone all game with three LBers against the Brady (short dink and dunk offense) is asnine
MarkyMannn Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 NFL DCs are stupid when it comes to stopping Brady the blueprint has been out there for years. Pressure in the Middle and Tight coverage at the line. I just do not get why they ALWAYS want to get in Zone coverage and let their little quick WRs have space off the line. Specially when Gronk is not playing. Well pressure and coverage work against anyone You're right about the quick wr's. To me NE bunches 3-4 wr's to the side usually opposite Gronk, and at the snap runs a series of picks and throw to the WR whose DB got picked. Could be zone is the best way to defend it as with man at least one guy will get picked. God forbid the ref's throw a flag for a pick play
snafu Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Steelers did. And they went away from what actually works against Brady. I have NEVER seen Steelers with Harrison in coverage so much and only rush 3 as much as I seen them Sunday do it. 01/22/201701/22/17 * Pittsburgh SteelersPit New England PatriotsNE A Gillette Stadium (Foxborough, MA) L 36-17 66,829 10/23/201610/23/16 Pittsburgh SteelersPit New England PatriotsNE H Heinz Field (Pittsburgh, PA) L 27-16 66,009 09/10/201509/10/15 Pittsburgh SteelersPit New England PatriotsNE A Gillette Stadium (Foxborough, MA) L 28-21 66,829 11/03/201311/03/13 Pittsburgh SteelersPit New England PatriotsNE A Gillette Stadium (Foxborough, MA) L 55-31 68,756 10/30/201110/30/11 Pittsburgh SteelersPit New England PatriotsNE H Heinz Field (Pittsburgh, PA) W 25-17 64,424 11/14/201011/14/10 Pittsburgh SteelersPit New England PatriotsNE H Heinz Field (Pittsburgh, PA) L 39-26 64,359 11/30/200811/30/08 Pittsburgh SteelersPit New England PatriotsNE A Gillette Stadium (Foxborough, MA) W 33-10 68,756 12/09/200712/09/07 Pittsburgh SteelersPit New England PatriotsNE A Gillette Stadium (Foxborough, MA) L 34-13 68,756 09/25/200509/25/05 Pittsburgh SteelersPit New England PatriotsNE H Heinz Field (Pittsburgh, PA) L 23-20 64,868 01/23/200501/23/05 * Pittsburgh SteelersPit New England PatriotsNE H Heinz Field (Pittsburgh, PA) L 41-27 65,242 10/31/200410/31/04 Pittsburgh SteelersPit New England PatriotsNE H Heinz Field (Pittsburgh, PA) W 34-20 64,737 Here's the last 11 results between the Steelers and Pats. Average points against = 31.27. 3 wins 8 losses. I'll bet Tomlin has tried a lot of different things.
MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Well pressure and coverage work against anyone You're right about the quick wr's. To me NE bunches 3-4 wr's to the side usually opposite Gronk, and at the snap runs a series of picks and throw to the WR whose DB got picked. Could be zone is the best way to defend it as with man at least one guy will get picked. God forbid the ref's throw a flag for a pick play They are not Illegal plays. Just a well designed offense
BillsFan130 Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 NFL DCs are stupid when it comes to stopping Brady the blueprint has been out there for years. Pressure in the Middle and Tight coverage at the line. I just do not get why they ALWAYS want to get in Zone coverage and let their little quick WRs have space off the line. Specially when Gronk is not playing. Exactly. You have to press their receivers. Its just easy money for the pats if they get a free release in zone coverage. They know exactly where to sit, and brady knows exactly where they are going to be
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 They are not Illegal plays. Just a well designed offense Eh - they bend the rules a bit and probably get OPI called on them more than most. It's a bang-bang play though so its really tough to throw the flag when you have to identify if he was blocking before the ball is out, and is he within the LOS... etc. Sort of like seattle and their constant holding - they aren't going to call it every play... so do it often and make it a physical game. NFL DCs are stupid when it comes to stopping Brady the blueprint has been out there for years. Pressure in the Middle and Tight coverage at the line. I just do not get why they ALWAYS want to get in Zone coverage and let their little quick WRs have space off the line. Specially when Gronk is not playing. I don't mind zone coverage - but you need to have really athletic LBs, and a SS who can lay some wood. You're secondary also have to be excellent at tackling. Seattle plays mostly zone and they're right up in your face a good % of the time as well. We have the d-line to create some issues up front (assuming theyre in shape and you know... care)
hondo in seattle Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 "DC's are stupid" is akin to saying "HVAC technicians are stupid" or "military officers are stupid." I guess we feel better when we denigrate another profession even when we do it without any actual expertise. Generally speaking, the best high school coaches become college coaches. The best college coaches become NFL coaches. The best NFL coaches become coordinators and head coaches. None of these guys are "stupid" at Xs and Os. The blueprint is simple? Pressure Brady and put tight coverage on his receivers? And Bill never figured out an answer to this approach because he's stupid too? The hubris of a fan is an amazing thing. It all sounds so easy when your a fan but the greatness of the Belichick/Brady Pats is that there is no true blueprint to stop them that's actually consistently effective and would work in any game. I hate the Pats but you have to admire them. Bill and Brady make opposing DCs look helpless all the time - versus a variety of schemes.
dpberr Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 You'd think that Pittsburgh would have watched last year's AFC Championship game where the Broncos punished Brady all afternoon and held him to 18 points, mostly with what MAJ said - pressure all day from the interior and giving the WRs no breathing room. BB isn't a slave to a scheme and to win against him, neither can the opposing team. That's been his bread and butter all this time - he plays against a league of coaches that are slaves to "their" schemes, without deviation. He's the Gregg Popovich of the NFL.
hondo in seattle Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 Eh - they bend the rules a bit and probably get OPI called on them more than most. It's a bang-bang play though so its really tough to throw the flag when you have to identify if he was blocking before the ball is out, and is he within the LOS... etc. Sort of like seattle and their constant holding - they aren't going to call it every play... so do it often and make it a physical game. I don't mind zone coverage - but you need to have really athletic LBs, and a SS who can lay some wood. You're secondary also have to be excellent at tackling. Seattle plays mostly zone and they're right up in your face a good % of the time as well. We have the d-line to create some issues up front (assuming theyre in shape and you know... care) Good post. Zone works fine when you put pressure on the QB. When you give him all day to throw, it's a disaster if the QB has any accuracy.
RealityCheck Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 A plan to ride a tiger is not the same as riding a tiger. Without an on-demand instant pass-rush, you just have to hope for the best and pray for turnovers against the GOAT. It's not fair, but Buffalo has a fear of QBs, especially their own.
hondo in seattle Posted January 23, 2017 Posted January 23, 2017 You'd think that Pittsburgh would have watched last year's AFC Championship game where the Broncos punished Brady all afternoon and held him to 18 points, mostly with what MAJ said - pressure all day from the interior and giving the WRs no breathing room. BB isn't a slave to a scheme and to win against him, neither can the opposing team. That's been his bread and butter all this time - he plays against a league of coaches that are slaves to "their" schemes, without deviation. He's the Gregg Popovich of the NFL. Bill Walsh among others has explained this. So has Vince Lombardi. It's often better to master a few techniques than be a jack-of-all-trades and expert at none. A lot of these guys might appear to be 'slaves to their schemes' because they've worked hard to drill in a certain defensive strategy with interlocking individual assignments and techniques. To suddenly change things up would often create confusion and set players up for failure. Rex and Rob liked to add new wrinkles every week. Look at how that approach served them. Walsh, on the other hand, said he would never do anything new in a Super Bowl. He would run the same offensive and defensive plays he did all year - the ones they've drilled and perfected - and let the better team win. Who's going to out-execute who? Sometimes one team just has better players.
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