Thurman#1 Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Why is everyone obsessed with passing touchdowns when scoring points any which way IS THE SAME RESULT??? You ever think Tyrods a big reason for why our running game was so good? Several reasons everyone's "obsessed with" passing TDs. The first is that the final four teams in the playoffs this year were 1st, 2nd, 4th and 6th in passing TDs. The good teams mostly get them in bunches.. The second is that so many folks on here keep desperately saying "Tyrod must be good because the offense scored a lot." But what you find when you look at the Bills is a terrific run game with McCoy doing incredible things and Gillislee looking terrific behind that excellent run line. And a substandard pass game. The offense wasn't all that great, but the part that really was terrific was the run game. He helped the running game. The running game helped him a good deal more. Again, teams were packing the box, daring him to beat them with the pass game. He couldn't do it. "Make him be a QB," they said. For good reason.
Thurman#1 Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) So how do you explain Mike Gillislee and Karlos Williams averaging a God-like 5.7 ypc on full season plus-like workload of 250+ carries and putting up 18 rushing TD's behind Tyrod? The tiny sample excuses last year were quaint but the tape doesn't lie. Tyrod doesn't see a number of open WR but he effectively diffuses attacking defenses, thereby creating great opportunity on offense. Given a stud WR like Watkins he also stretches the D vertically.......whether his OL blocks well or not(see Mills). Not the SAME opportunities as a franchise QB.......but a franchise volume mostly found in huge plays.........something Shady produced in 2016.....but NOT in 2015......while Tyrod has overseen tons of huge plays in BOTH years. Sans Tyrod the Bills OL/QB are vulnerable to penetrating defenses playing the run on the way to the QB. It's as simple as that. Sometimes even good passing QB's can't help a run game get going because defenses use aggressive fronts to force quick passes and then can sweep up the run in the backfield in the process. He does the opposite of diffusing the defense. They regularly play eight in the box. They made stopping the run game the priority and mostly still couldn't do it. They were playing the run and hoping Tyrod would pass. How do Gillislee and Karlos Williams do so well? Because they're change of pace backs and teams are mostly preparing for McCoy, There's a history of this. Freddy always always outperformed Marshawn in YPA when he was backing him up. It's a pretty consistent phenomenon. But what mostly helped them is what mostly helped McCoy. Last year Shady was having health problems and this year he was mostly healthy. And lo and behold, running in Roman's excellent run scheme behind excellent run blockers produced excellent results. Edited January 28, 2017 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) I hope they keep Tyrod. I am fine with drafting a QB and keeping Tyrod. Tyrod is better than any QB the Bills can acquire this off-season via trade or free agency. Tyrod will be better this season than any QB the Bills can draft. Maybe draft Chad Kelly late and stick with developing him and Cardale while Tyrod holds down the position this year and next year (Probably would need to sign a decent back up if you weren't drafting a QB in rounds 1 or 2.) Right now I see no better option than Tyrod at QB for the Bills. Is Tyrod a franchise QB? No but his contract is affordable and not a long term commitment beyond next year and he is an above average QB who is good enough to win with a good supporting cast. The Bills can use the luxery of having a solid option at QB while picking their spot to have long term development at the QB position. If his contract were affordable, there wouldn't be a discussion. Right from the beginning the very first tweet from Schefter on Jan. 6th, saying Tyrod would be gone said the Bills "don't have any intention of paying" the $30.5 mill. It's too much for anyone not close to the top ten or twelve QBs, it just is. The only way it would be affordable is if Tyrod stays here four or five years. And that's wildly unlikely to happen. Again, if he stays here one year and leaves it will cost the Bills $30.5 mill. Which will show up in the cap in 2017 and 2018. But it will be for one year of performance and total $30.5 mill. If Tyrod stays two years and leaves it will cost the Bills $40.5 mill for those two years. Two years of performance costing $40.5 mill. That's wildly expensive for a bridge QB. Historically there's never been a bridge QB paid anything like it. Cracks me up the discussion on here where people try to forget the dead money. The conversations are hilarious. They always go something like this: "So, how much will he be paid if he only stays one year." "His 2017 cap hit would be around $16 million." "So there would be no dead cap money hit?" "His 2017 cap hit would be $16 million." "So that's the only money the Bills would have to pay?" "His 2017 cap hit would be $16 million." "But he would have been guaranteed $30.5. What would happen to the remaining $14.5 million?" "This isn't a polite topic of public conversation. Let me repeat, his 2017 cap hit would be $16 million." "So you're saying there absolutely would NOT be a $14.5 million dead cap hit for the Bills in 2018 if he lasts one year and gets cut?" "People worry too much about the future. His 2017 cap hit would be $16 million." "OK, well, after that season is over and the $16 mill has been paid, if Tyrod is let go, what happens to the remainder of the $30.5 million he was guaranteed?" "Do you talk to your mother with that mouth? His cap hit will be $16 million." It's pathetically humorous. It's beyond spin into the realm of pretending that if you close your eyes and don't look, the car you're about to hit will go away. I'm not saying this is you, BillsFan89, but some people on here are exactly like this. Edited January 28, 2017 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 That contract wasn't and isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I say that because the Bills have an option to walk away if they so choose. Most other teams would have just signed the guy to a longer term contract. And then Tyrod would automatically be assumed to be the starting quarterback going into next year. Instead the Bills left themselves with an "out" so that "if" Tyrod turned out to be a bad qb they could move on from him rather than be stuck with the guy for years to come. That is why it was a "prove it" contract where they could evaluate him after a while and then see if they wanted to be married to him for another 3 years or more. The part of this situation that effed things up was the fact that the Bills had Greg Roman as an offensive coordinator. As such, the Bills passed the ball less than any other team. That resulted in what "appeared" to be a weak passing attack. And some people blame that lack of passing production entirely on the QB. When in reality what happened was they saw the Bills lose a close game. Then they looked at the stats and saw total passing yards was low. So they went looking for "why" it was low. And they saw Tyrod miss an open receiver and not throw him the ball. So they told themselves that Tyrod was the reason for the low passing yards. When in fact, Tyrod was playing about average ball as a passer (some games above average and some below) if you account for his number of pass attempts. The only reason there is any question about Tyrod right now is because of Greg Roman's style of offense. If Tyrod had been given the opportunity to throw the ball more often in an offense that was designed to throw the ball more, then even this low percentage of people who want to cut him would be saying we should keep him. Well except for the true haters of which there is a handful of people here. Agree with you about the contract. They have the chance to walk away, and that looks like what they'll do. But I have to disagree with what you're saying about Tyrod's productivity. After you account for Tyrod's fewer chances than normal, you're still left with a poor pass game. He had a 6.9 YPA. And a QB's YPA isn't punished for lower numbers of attempts. Tyrod had a 6.9 YPA this year. YPA is a measure of passing efficiency and Tyrod was 26th in the league. He was 20th in passer rating, another stat which is not hurt by a lower number of attempts. Tyrod has two real strengths, his ability to run and his refusal to turn the ball over. And those are both great. But our passing game was simply below average.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 He does the opposite of diffusing the defense. They regularly play eight in the box. They made stopping the run game the priority and mostly still couldn't do it. They were playing the run and hoping Tyrod would pass. How do Gillislee and Karlos Williams do so well? Because they're change of pace backs and teams are mostly preparing for McCoy, There's a history of this. Freddy always always outperformed Marshawn in YPA when he was backing him up. It's a pretty consistent phenomenon. But what mostly helped them is what mostly helped McCoy. Last year Shady was having health problems and this year he was mostly healthy. And lo and behold, running in Roman's excellent run scheme behind excellent run blockers produced excellent results. They put 8 in the box, but 1 was dedicated to Tyrod and none were attacking. They have to play contain and sit and let contact come to them or they will get burned. That's why we had such a ridiculous Yards Before Contact stat throughout the year.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 If his contract were affordable, there wouldn't be a discussion. Right from the beginning the very first tweet from Schefter on Jan. 6th, saying Tyrod would be gone said the Bills "don't have any intention of paying" the $30.5 mill. It's too much for anyone not close to the top ten or twelve QBs, it just is. The only way it would be affordable is if Tyrod stays here four or five years. And that's wildly unlikely to happen. Again, if he stays here one year and leaves it will cost the Bills $30.5 mill. Which will show up in the cap in 2017 and 2018. But it will be for one year of performance and total $30.5 mill. If Tyrod stays two years and leaves it will cost the Bills $40.5 mill for those two years. Two years of performance costing $40.5 mill. That's wildly expensive for a bridge QB. Historically there's never been a bridge QB paid anything like it. Cracks me up the discussion on here where people try to forget the dead money. The conversations are hilarious. They always go something like this: "So, how much will he be paid if he only stays one year." "His 2017 cap hit would be around $16 million." "So there would be no dead cap money hit?" "His 2017 cap hit would be $16 million." "So that's the only money the Bills would have to pay?" "His 2017 cap hit would be $16 million." "But he would have been guaranteed $30.5. What would happen to the remaining $14.5 million?" "This isn't a polite topic of public conversation. Let me repeat, his 2017 cap hit would be $16 million." "So you're saying there absolutely would NOT be a $14.5 million dead cap hit for the Bills in 2018 if he lasts one year and gets cut?" "People worry too much about the future. His 2017 cap hit would be $16 million." "OK, well, after that season is over and the $16 mill has been paid, if Tyrod is let go, what happens to the remainder of the $30.5 million he was guaranteed?" "Do you talk to your mother with that mouth? His cap hit will be $16 million." It's pathetically humorous. It's beyond spin into the realm of pretending that if you close your eyes and don't look, the car you're about to hit will go away. I'm not saying this is you, BillsFan89, but some people on here are exactly like this. So... actual money is 40 over two years under 2 very reasonable cap hits. then a cap hit of what, 10 (5+5) if we were to cut him in 2019? The caps going up... and it ain't ur money. If the coaches wanna keep him, I'm inclined to pay him. Even on a bad contract. Tannys contract puts him at a 20 mil hit this year... and he is not good.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Tannys contract puts him at a 20 mil hit this year... and he is not good. Tanny beat Taylor and went to the playoffs though, another reason to move on from the qb that can't pass.
Magox Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Backup RB's regularly put up high YPC. Bilial Powell put 5.5 YPC in 2016 and it sure wasn't because he had a mobile QB. Ryan Mathews put up 5.1 YPC in 2015 as a backup. So I looked into your claim and what you stated was factually incorrect, Backup RB"s regularly do not put a higher YPC than starters.
Dorkington Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) Tanny beat Taylor and went to the playoffs though, another reason to move on from the qb that can't pass. Tanny's best year was a QB rating of 93.5, his career rating is 86.5, his best QBR is 58. His TD to TO ratio is 1.23:1. And his best ANY/A is 6.21, with a career of 5.6. Taylor meanwhile has a Bills career rating of 94, a career QBR of 64. A TD to TO ratio of 2.47:1 and a career ANY/A of 6.55. So you're saying you prefer the worse QB that is more expensive, because the Dolphins beat the Bills in a team game? Got it. Edited January 28, 2017 by Dorkington
Coach Tuesday Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 The argument by his agent would be........you give my client Bob Woods to throw to and otherwise a bunch of guys who wouldn't have a job if there were only 31 teams.........and NOW you want to negotiate? I mean, I guess - but he had put some bad tape out there by mid-season and it wasn't all because of the scrub WRs he was playing with - he was missing open reads all over the field. I agree he improved by the end of the year but still, seems to me the better approach would've been to wait. I suppose it's possible that his agent effectively told the Bills "it's now or never" in August and if so, Ty has bigger balls than I thought...
aristocrat Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Tanny beat Taylor and went to the playoffs though, another reason to move on from the qb that can't pass. tanny threw for 200 yards and 1 td game 1(miami rushed for 256 yards), tyrod put up 221 yards and a td. soooooo you are 100 percent wrong
Maury Ballstein Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Tanny's best year was a QB rating of 93.5, his career rating is 86.5, his best QBR is 58. His TD to TO ratio is 1.23:1. And his best ANY/A is 6.21, with a career of 5.6. Taylor meanwhile has a Bills career rating of 94, a career QBR of 64. A TD to TO ratio of 2.47:1 and a career ANY/A of 6.55. So you're saying you prefer the worse QB that is more expensive, because the Dolphins beat the Bills in a team game? Got it. Qbr = irrelevant. Tyrod fell apart in the second half and Tanny and the fins pantsed him. tanny threw for 200 yards and 1 td game 1(miami rushed for 256 yards), tyrod put up 221 yards and a td. soooooo you are 100 percent wrong Fins 2 wins Buffalo 0 #math.
aristocrat Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Qbr = irrelevant. Tyrod fell apart in the second half and Tanny and the fins pantsed him. Fins 2 wins Buffalo 0 #math. tanny only played in first game. are you really that narrow minded? what did you see in miami's rushing game both games? who would you call the mvp of both games?
Dorkington Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Miami wins the second game and Tanny gets the credit for it. Classic Ryan L Billz.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 tanny only played in first game. are you really that narrow minded? what did you see in miami's rushing game both games? who would you call the mvp of both games? Miami wins the second game and Tanny gets the credit for it. Classic Ryan L Billz. Referring to the first game in regards to you dorkington Showing aristo the fins went 2-0 in regards to his 100% incorrect comment. Tanny beat Taylor period. Keep crying about it fellas. Can't wait for another season of excuses for Taylor's play.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Referring to the first game in regards to you dorkington Showing aristo the fins went 2-0 in regards to his 100% incorrect comment. Tanny beat Taylor period. Keep crying about it fellas. Can't wait for another season of excuses for Taylor's play. Do you have an opinion about Tyrod, Ryan?
aristocrat Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Referring to the first game in regards to you dorkington Showing aristo the fins went 2-0 in regards to his 100% incorrect comment. Tanny beat Taylor period. Keep crying about it fellas. Can't wait for another season of excuses for Taylor's play. i asked you who the mvp was in those games?
FireChan Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 So I looked into your claim and what you stated was factually incorrect, Backup RB"s regularly do not put a higher YPC than starters. Boobie over Fred in 2014. Crowell over Duke Johnson in 2014. Andre Ellington in 2013. Montee Ball in 2013. Spiller over Fred in 2013. I could continue but I don't see the point.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) i asked you who the mvp was in those games? Not the qb who went 0-2 vs the 29th ranked Fins defense. How did Tanny do it ? He made playoffs with a defense 15 spots worse than ours. Hmmmmmmm. Edited January 28, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
aristocrat Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 Not the qb who went 0-2 vs the 29th ranked Fins defense. How did Tanny do it ? He made playoffs with a defense 15 spots worse than ours. Hmmmmmmm. who was the mvp? Not the qb who went 0-2 vs the 29th ranked Fins defense. How did Tanny do it ? He made playoffs with a defense 15 spots worse than ours. Hmmmmmmm. their defense was .2 points per game worse than us. the difference was 3 wins...2 vs us and 1 vs jets. ajay single handedly dominated those games(well with his oline). our defense completely lost it
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