1billsfan Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 It might be alot to ask, but i really am hoping Whaley is thinking much as you are ! Since he's been using the term "long term", I'm sure doing this is on Whaley's radar if the opportunity comes up.
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 I get that. What I mean to say is I'd prefer our QBs be something like Taylor, Foles, Jones and draft WR/S/CB as opposed to Taylor, Jones, Rookie and drafting WR/QB/DB. what does Foles offer that TT does not as far as Vet exp. ? Since he's been using the term "long term", I'm sure doing this is on Whaley's radar if the opportunity comes up. well he has been pretty aggressive in the past. Hope he knows how to let off the throttle for one year ; )
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 what does Foles offer that TT does not as far as Vet exp. ? He offers experience at the position if something happens to Tyrod. Our team has suffered from depth in the past and I don't feel great about having no depth at the most important position.
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 He offers experience at the position if something happens to Tyrod. Our team has suffered from depth in the past and I don't feel great about having no depth at the most important position. That i understand. How do YOU feel about Cardale stepping in for a game or two, next season I mean of course. With another year another camp preseason etc, i might hope he is good enough to fill in. If he is not even adequate i will begin to worry. This year i had no expectations of him. Next year I will.
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 Not sure what this even means. He was a 4th round pick. The chances of him becoming a good NFL starter are very low. I understand that. Most QBs have the odds against them. and Bills have never shown an ability to develop one that i can recall. Tyrod gets two years likely. Can Cardale back him up? Kid has a killerarm and a relaxed attitude during game time. Maybe i am a homer for this one.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 That i understand. How do YOU feel about Cardale stepping in for a game or two, next season I mean of course. With another year another camp preseason etc, i might hope he is good enough to fill in. If he is not even adequate i will begin to worry. This year i had no expectations of him. Next year I will. Obviously not as good as I'd feel about a vet, but good enough that I can certainly understand the position. I guess for me it gets dicey with the 2018 Draft. If we pass on a vet backup and take a QB this year we will have Tyrod with too much dead money to cut, Cardale & 2017 Rook on rookie deals, and I feel we'd still be looking at QB due to the expected strength on the class. That means admitting that either Cardale or the 2017 rook is a wasted pick and cutting ties. I guess that's just a long way of me saying it's less about Cardale stepping in and more about adding another rookie. To me, again it's just my amateur opinion, we should look at a vet backup QB on a short term deal that can be terminated in 2018 if Cardale is coming along and we want a rookie from the '18 class to groom for the future. And again, I won't pretend to know the team's actual grades on this year's QBs. If there's someone they really like available to them they should definitely jump on it. I just think that closes the door a bit on picking one next year in what I believe to be a better class.
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 Obviously not as good as I'd feel about a vet, but good enough that I can certainly understand the position. I guess for me it gets dicey with the 2018 Draft. If we pass on a vet backup and take a QB this year we will have Tyrod with too much dead money to cut, Cardale & 2017 Rook on rookie deals, and I feel we'd still be looking at QB due to the expected strength on the class. That means admitting that either Cardale or the 2017 rook is a wasted pick and cutting ties. I guess that's just a long way of me saying it's less about Cardale stepping in and more about adding another rookie. To me, again it's just my amateur opinion, we should look at a vet backup QB on a short term deal that can be terminated in 2018 if Cardale is coming along and we want a rookie from the '18 class to groom for the future. And again, I won't pretend to know the team's actual grades on this year's QBs. If there's someone they really like available to them they should definitely jump on it. I just think that closes the door a bit on picking one next year in what I believe to be a better class. Reasonable and well explained take ! are you suggesting Bills should not draft one this year and score the vet, in the first paragraph? We all realize that if TT is not picked up, EVERYTHING changes. including such matters as what FA we can resign. Guys like Lorax or Zach will move on likely. Maybe even Kyle Williams will call it quits.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 Reasonable and well explained take ! are you suggesting Bills should not draft one this year and score the vet, in the first paragraph? We all realize that if TT is not picked up, EVERYTHING changes. including such matters as what FA we can resign. Guys like Lorax or Zach will move on likely. Maybe even Kyle Williams will call it quits. Yeah, this year's draft for me would be more about filling holes outside the QB position to shore up our roster so that the 2018 QB, or Cardale, comes into a more stable situation.
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) Yeah, this year's draft for me would be more about filling holes outside the QB position to shore up our roster so that the 2018 QB, or Cardale, comes into a more stable situation. i dig that , Hokie Edited January 29, 2017 by 3rdand12
Green Lightning Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 Okay, I was just curious. I think I'm more of the mindset of bringing in a vet backup and positioning for next year to draft a QB, but I understand both sides. I also feel that if there's a prospect they feel good about available at one of their picks they should take them this year, I just don't see the value at the position early in this crop. I know it's a tough call but every time they say there's a bad crop of quarterbacks often one comes up that's pretty good, Dak, Carr, et al. It is a crap shoot but sometimes you just gotta take a chance.
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 I know it's a tough call but every time they say there's a bad crop of quarterbacks often one comes up that's pretty good, Dak, Carr, et al. It is a crap shoot but sometimes you just gotta take a chance. as long as a "chance" is later in the draft. ala Jones. But if you are taking one in the first, instead of nearly surefire day ones who do not play QB ? It better not be chance
Green Lightning Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 as long as a "chance" is later in the draft. ala Jones. But if you are taking one in the first, instead of nearly surefire day ones who do not play QB ? It better not be chance 1st round you gotta love the guy and believe in him. (And he better not have slow eyes!) 2nd be excited he slipped to you and he's worth the risk of a high pick. So yeah I agree with you, but don't keep letting quality QB's pass you by year after year.
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 1st round you gotta love the guy and believe in him. (And he better not have slow eyes!) 2nd be excited he slipped to you and he's worth the risk of a high pick. So yeah I agree with you, but don't keep letting quality QB's pass you by year after year. We all had best know. Bills put themselves into the situation under Nix. He was waiting for the kill shot , which never came for him, or us. Any real GM knows, QB is the the King for creating a competitive team for any span of time. Whaley talks the game this year, finally. Building the foundation. You cannot really cheat the system. QB is king. and that is how the team is built. Just like we have a running Offense. because our QB is maximized scheming that game style.
Marty McFly Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) # Badol is really coming along lately Developing into a starting poster with playoff potential! FireChan's giving him every blitz in his aresonl and #Badol is hanging in the pocket making the correct reads and getting the ball out on time Edited January 29, 2017 by Marty McFly
3rdand12 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 Developing into a starting poster with playoff potential! FireChan's giving him every blitz in his aresonl and #Badol is hanging in the pocket making the correct reads and getting the ball out on time we should offer him a contract.
DirtDart Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 If you don't think that the most mobile QB in the NFL doesn't make defenses tentative then.......well......that explains the rest of your take. As for MG and Karlos production...............like I said, 250+ carries and 18 rushing TD's can't be discounted by nonsense about how "that's the way it always is"........like FireChans take that about one good season Powell had as a reserve when the other 5 years his production was POOR as a reserve. I guess it's not a consistent phenomenon for Bilal. You got a good look at what happens to the Bills run game in the finale against the Jets this year where NY defenders went thru the Bills OL like a hot knife and stopped the Bills run game in the backfield......injuring Shady and bottling up Gillislee......on the way to the QB. That's the way most defensive fronts are built now....upfield and attacking...and Tyrod is a nightmare for those DC's........especially when he has playmakers at WR because he's a tremendous deep ball thrower making it hard to play safeties up to incorporate a true "8 in the box". Even when they have 7 in the box one of them is usually a flat footed spy hoping to prevent Tyrod from breaking contain. This makes the Bills relatively slow developing run game SO MUCH more effective........allowing lineman to get into blocks with momentum and angles against less disruptive, reactionary DL and LB's. Bah, a run first QB does nothing for the passing game. He is tentative, can't read a defense, and the first hint of pressure has him running.
John from Riverside Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 Bah, a run first QB does nothing for the passing game. He is tentative, can't read a defense, and the first hint of pressure has him running. bado really explained his take much better then yu did would a qb that can make quick accurate throws also work here? For sure # Badol is really coming along lately he has always been good,,,,just a bit abrasive
purple haze Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 This^ May favorite 2017 draft scenario is for the Bills to trade back into the 20s for some team's 2018 1st round pick. That certainly increases your odds of landing a franchise QB in what looks like a very good to excellent draft class. We can all wait a year. Who knows, if Cardale becomes the steal of last years draft with his play, then they'll have two first rounders to become a great team! I disagree with this thinking in part. I wouldn't mind seeing the Bills trade down and pick up extra picks. But not necessarily with the intention of drafting a QB in 2018. There have been many years when we hear the pundits talk about "Next Year's" QB class will be so much better than the current one. There are no guarantees and players who seem good now might regress, get injured, etc. If Whaley identifies a QB he likes this April he should grab him. I like the trade down scenario for picks for this year's draft if they keep Tyrod. If they don't keep Tyrod then I think 10 becomes a chip that might include a trade for a QB and a pick coming back with him.
Thurman#1 Posted February 1, 2017 Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) If you don't think that the most mobile QB in the NFL doesn't make defenses tentative then.......well......that explains the rest of your take. Dude, this isn't something I think. It's something I know. And so should anyone else who's listening. For the eight millionth time, teams weren't saying "Make him be a quarterback," for nothing. His mobility made him harder to defend, but the impact of his poor passing attack was a much bigger boon to them than his mobility was a disadvantage. Every QB has one strength, or they don't make it to the NFL. But mobility is a lot more dangerous in a running back than a QB. Mike Vick was mobile too, more so than Tyrod. Teams feared great passers much more than Vick, a genuinely great runner at QB. They'd have been a lot more tentative if Tyrod had allowed the Bills to put together a good passing game than they were because he runs very well. As for MG and Karlos production...............like I said, 250+ carries and 18 rushing TD's can't be discounted by nonsense about how "that's the way it always is"........like FireChans take that about one good season Powell had as a reserve when the other 5 years his production was POOR as a reserve. I guess it's not a consistent phenomenon for Bilal. Nice move. I see what you're doing there. It's much easier to counter an argument when you twist what the guy said than when you counter their actual words. Neither FireChan nor I ever said it "always" happens. So all you did there is change our argument and then attack your own words. It looks like you win when you're really just playing with yourself. I said there was a history of it. FireChan said it happened regularly. The reason we said that was ... well, frankly there's a history of it and it happens regularly. Not always, but often. Was Robert Turbin a better back than Marshawn the year the Seahawks won the Super Bowl? He was if you judge by YPA that year, by more than half a yard. It happens with some regularity. Christine Michael also had a higher YPA than Marshawn that year. The next year Turbin didn't, but Michael did. The next year both of them destroyed him. Whitaker and Artis-Payne beat out Jonathan Stewart in Carolina this year, Whitaker by nearly a yard per run. Both other guys beat out Blount this year in New England. Kenyan Drake beat out Ajayi in Miami by half a yard. Terron Ward had 31 attempts in Atlanta this year and beat out Freeman and Coleman. In Washington, both Matt Jones and Chris Thompson killed Robert Kelley in far fewer attempts, And I could go on and on. Building an argument on the main RB being beaten out by the guys behind him in YPC is building an argument on air. You got a good look at what happens to the Bills run game in the finale against the Jets this year where NY defenders went thru the Bills OL like a hot knife and stopped the Bills run game in the backfield......injuring Shady and bottling up Gillislee......on the way to the QB. That's the way most defensive fronts are built now....upfield and attacking...and Tyrod is a nightmare for those DC's........especially when he has playmakers at WR because he's a tremendous deep ball thrower making it hard to play safeties up to incorporate a true "8 in the box". Even when they have 7 in the box one of them is usually a flat footed spy hoping to prevent Tyrod from breaking contain. This makes the Bills relatively slow developing run game SO MUCH more effective........allowing lineman to get into blocks with momentum and angles against less disruptive, reactionary DL and LB's. You're cracking me up here. You can say the Jets stopped the Bills run game on the way to the QB, but you're seriously mixing up cause and effect. You don't make your goal to attack the horrible pass game when the run game is the best in the league. Coaches don't say, "We've got to take away this team's weakness." That's laughable. Your argument is that the Jets said, "Which should we try to take away, the best run game in the league or the intimidating EJ Manuel-led pass game? The Falcons aren't saying "Lets build our defense around taking away the Pats run game." Ridiculous. And yet you're actually trying to make that argument that stopping Manuel's pass game was the Jets' major goal. They were keying on McCoy all game long, or the other RBs when McCoy went out. They, like the other teams we played, were a ton more worried about the run game than the pass game. The pass game simply wasn't particularly good or productive this year. The reason the Jets stopped the run game was that they put their effort into doing exactly that. To repeat yet again, teams said, "Make [Tyrod] play quarterback." They didn't say, "make McCoy play running back," or "Make Tyrod leave the pocket and run," Just the opposite. They attacked the run game both because it was excellent and because they knew we couldn't pressure anyone with the pass game. Tyrod never made them sweat about the pass game enough to back them off. The thing about how good his long balls are is mostly from 2015. He wasn't all that impressive long this year, he missed a lot of throws and teams knew they didn't have to worry much about him going to the deep and intermediate middle, so they set up deep and outside. Edited February 3, 2017 by Thurman#1
Recommended Posts