MAJBobby Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 Sammy Watkins and Bob Woods will be lights out in a different system and a better QB.
NoSaint Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 How could Whaley have gotten this unit SO badly wrong? "Final Overall Grade F: This unit is void of talent and requires a complete rebuild for 2017" http://www.billsdaily.com/gameday/index.shtml Dump everybody except Sammy, rookie contract, and start all over. And the problem I have is that most knew before the season started, this unit was a mess... It's not like they haven't invested the last 5 or so years either... early picks for Sammy, woods, graham, and Goodwin -- trade for Mike Williams, money for harvin, and so on....
HT02 Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Apparently not much - they didnt even cover him on a TD catch. I don't care too much about this honestly - i've watched enough other QBs miss open receivers that they're actually throwing to. Big ben was skipping passes to his receivers all game, and his deep balls were fluttering all over the field. We never ran plays to get the ball to playmakers (not sure if this is because we didn't really have any). We didn't run trips or bunch formations. We took like the fewest snaps from under center, so our PA game was never that great. No Screens. No bubbles. No swings. Just such a vanilla offense. And we had a few games where we struggled in pass protection to boot. I'm not sure which game you are referring to when you say "Big Ben was skipping passes to his receivers all day". He looked very accurate against NE on Sunday, if you meant the game against the Bills that doesn't reflect what I saw. My larger point is that he is a pretty accurate passer who doesn't miss (as in not see) wide open guys nearly as often as Tyrod did. I agree that the offense last year was geared toward the run but I suspect it was done because Taylor isn't the best weapon on the team.
Nihilarian Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Sammy Watkins and Bob Woods will be lights out in a different system and a better QB. Not if they can't stay on the field due to injuries! Watkins played in 8 games in 2016 and was useful in about two of those games having over 55 yards in those. Watkins had foot issues all season and he recently just had foot surgery again. The only Bills receiver who played in all 16 games was TE Nick O'Leary. http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/62752/472/broken-bills I brought it up in the other thread and I think that people mistook my point as a comparison between Hogan and Julio Jones. That was not the intention but I will try again. Hogan and Julio had very similar stats the other day but how they got there was quite different. Hogan ran free and caught the ball. He made a nice play on the crossing route. Jones caught balls in traffic, ran guys over, dragged his feet on the sidelines and was an all around monster. The next day the games probably looked similar. I played baseball my whole life and we had an saying that I think applies. After someone would hit a dribbler for an infield single we would say "it'll look like a line drive in the morning." The result was better than the performance. I am not trying to take anything away from Hogan. He had his most productive game in the biggest game of his life. The Bills should have tendered him. All that I am saying is that if you watched that game he didn't really do anything that a decent NFL receiver wouldn't do with that same opportunity. This game went on to show just how brilliant Bill Belichick is in his film study as he literally destroyed that Steeler secondary and their soft zone coverage. And yes, from what I've read old Bill is the team's GM and goes over film for every facet of the team. He finds ways to exploit the opponents weaknesses. Can you name one other player in the history of the NFL who had a game like Hogan had in the playoffs against the Steelers? That some unknown WR who steps up like that? Sorry but those numbers he put up in that playoff game showed he is and was more than JAG! I'll bet now that he has had time to acclimate himself into that Patriots offense that he will be even better for Brady. Tom Brady doesn't tolerate stupid players who don't know their jobs! NFN, there is a real reason as to why Hogan was nicknamed 7/11 before going to the Patriots as the guy would always find ways to find that seam in the defense and get open. Belichick targeted Hogan in free agency because, like his love for the TE position, he also loves those shifty slot receivers. Like I said earlier, It burns me to see the stupidity of the Bills GM allowing a player to leave that was a position of need and then attempt to replace him in Buffalo with scrubs. What that article doesn't grade is the evaluation of the Bills GM and the reason for some of those poor grades was the lack of quality players at several positions and a lack of quality depth once the starters went down. This will be his 5th season as GM and his record so far is 30-34.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Not if they can't stay on the field due to injuries! Watkins played in 8 games in 2016 and was useful in about two of those games having over 55 yards in those. Watkins had foot issues all season and he recently just had foot surgery again. The only Bills receiver who played in all 16 games was TE Nick O'Leary. http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/62752/472/broken-bills This game went on to show just how brilliant Bill Belichick is in his film study as he literally destroyed that Steeler secondary and their soft zone coverage. And yes, from what I've read old Bill is the team's GM and goes over film for every facet of the team. He finds ways to exploit the opponents weaknesses. Can you name one other player in the history of the NFL who had a game like Hogan had in the playoffs against the Steelers? That some unknown WR who steps up like that? Sorry but those numbers he put up in that playoff game showed he is and was more than JAG! I'll bet now that he has had time to acclimate himself into that Patriots offense that he will be even better for Brady. Tom Brady doesn't tolerate stupid players who don't know their jobs! NFN, there is a real reason as to why Hogan was nicknamed 7/11 before going to the Patriots as the guy would always find ways to find that seam in the defense and get open. Belichick targeted Hogan in free agency because, like his love for the TE position, he also loves those shifty slot receivers. Like I said earlier, It burns me to see the stupidity of the Bills GM allowing a player to leave that was a position of need and then attempt to replace him in Buffalo with scrubs. What that article doesn't grade is the evaluation of the Bills GM and the reason for some of those poor grades was the lack of quality players at several positions and a lack of quality depth once the starters went down. This will be his 5th season as GM and his record so far is 30-34. A few things, I agree completely that it shows the brilliance of BB. He makes average players look great. He puts guys in a position to succeed. I don't think that Hogan did anything that an NFL receiver wouldn't do with that opportunity. He made one nice run after the catch. Other than that he ran to a spot that they knew would open and threw him the ball. The stats were really impressive. For what's its worth he isn't a shifty slot receiver at all. He is actually pretty big and physical. He's a boundary guy. That is why they went after him. Hogan has been a nice fit there. By the same token, the Bills plan at WR last year was stupid. They should have either tendered him or worked to replace him in the draft. They shouldn't have went into last year with Sammy and a bunch of guys.
Tcali Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 How could Whaley have gotten this unit SO badly wrong? "Final Overall Grade F: This unit is void of talent and requires a complete rebuild for 2017" http://www.billsdaily.com/gameday/index.shtml Dump everybody except Sammy, rookie contract, and start all over. And the problem I have is that most knew before the season started, this unit was a mess... Its absurd to judge a WR corps when you have a QB that both can't throw accurately and can''t find you when you are wide open.
TPS Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Whaley didn't want Hogan back...not worth even a contract offer. So, NE gives Hogan $3Mil a year for three years....as a #2 wr (Edelman #1) and Hogan catches 600 yards and 5 td's this year. Hogan is a legit #2, but wasn't good enough for the Bills. Makes me wonder about the talent judges in the front office.he was an RFA, and they gave him the min tender which was close to $1.7 nil. The bills couldn't match NE's offer given their cap situation. While not close in $s, it's not unlike what the bills did to Miami with clay.
Boatdrinks Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 Not if they can't stay on the field due to injuries! Watkins played in 8 games in 2016 and was useful in about two of those games having over 55 yards in those. Watkins had foot issues all season and he recently just had foot surgery again. The only Bills receiver who played in all 16 games was TE Nick O'Leary. http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/62752/472/broken-bills This game went on to show just how brilliant Bill Belichick is in his film study as he literally destroyed that Steeler secondary and their soft zone coverage. And yes, from what I've read old Bill is the team's GM and goes over film for every facet of the team. He finds ways to exploit the opponents weaknesses. Can you name one other player in the history of the NFL who had a game like Hogan had in the playoffs against the Steelers? That some unknown WR who steps up like that? Sorry but those numbers he put up in that playoff game showed he is and was more than JAG! I'll bet now that he has had time to acclimate himself into that Patriots offense that he will be even better for Brady. Tom Brady doesn't tolerate stupid players who don't know their jobs! NFN, there is a real reason as to why Hogan was nicknamed 7/11 before going to the Patriots as the guy would always find ways to find that seam in the defense and get open. Belichick targeted Hogan in free agency because, like his love for the TE position, he also loves those shifty slot receivers. Like I said earlier, It burns me to see the stupidity of the Bills GM allowing a player to leave that was a position of need and then attempt to replace him in Buffalo with scrubs. What that article doesn't grade is the evaluation of the Bills GM and the reason for some of those poor grades was the lack of quality players at several positions and a lack of quality depth once the starters went down. This will be his 5th season as GM and his record so far is 30-34. Hogan isn't really much better than the Bills WRs that took his place , Hunter may even be better. The Pats gave him much more than Bills could afford to pay. If they had tendered him higher he's still a Bill as no one was giving up a 2nd rounder for him. He was a RFA and they had bigger deals to get done. It happens. Love BB much? Why not go spend time on a Pats board with your unabashed drool laden love fest for those choads?
Nihilarian Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 Hogan isn't really much better than the Bills WRs that took his place , Hunter may even be better. The Pats gave him much more than Bills could afford to pay. If they had tendered him higher he's still a Bill as no one was giving up a 2nd rounder for him. He was a RFA and they had bigger deals to get done. It happens. Love BB much? Why not go spend time on a Pats board with your unabashed drool laden love fest for those choads? After that initial sentence, it's quite clear that any opinion you have on this subject is inconsequential. Do us both a favor and don't respond to my posts as I have no use for contentious fans.
Thurman#1 Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) A few things, I agree completely that it shows the brilliance of BB. He makes average players look great. He puts guys in a position to succeed. I don't think that Hogan did anything that an NFL receiver wouldn't do with that opportunity. He made one nice run after the catch. Other than that he ran to a spot that they knew would open and threw him the ball. The stats were really impressive. For what's its worth he isn't a shifty slot receiver at all. He is actually pretty big and physical. He's a boundary guy. That is why they went after him. Hogan has been a nice fit there. By the same token, the Bills plan at WR last year was stupid. They should have either tendered him or worked to replace him in the draft. They shouldn't have went into last year with Sammy and a bunch of guys. The "any decent receiver could do it" idea doesn't hold up. The Pats bring in plenty of guys who can't get playing time for them, or can't do well if they get playing time. Destroying zone coverage isn't as easy as it looks. If it were, everyone would do it. Hogan was doing everything right. That's why he gets playing time, why Brady is willing to throw to him and why he makes the catches when he gets thrown to. No, he's no Julio Jones. But yeah, he's a talented NFL WR. Not a #2, but pretty close. Should've been tendered here, especially as we had so little behind him. Oldy Moldy you do know all QBs miss open receivers every game right? Do you watch other games besides the Bills? Yup. Other QBs miss open receivers too. The perfect QB has yet to be invented. But Tyrod missed them more often than most. It really is that simple. Clay in particular was wasted. Edited January 26, 2017 by Thurman#1
fansince88 Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 Eh, bunch of nonsense really. Injuries can kill any group when you're hit like the Bills were. The Bills are one good WR away from an excellent group. Talent wise, Watkins is a clear 1 and Woods is very good 3. Justin Hunter is solid depth and redzone WR, and if Listenbee can catch at all, his speed makes him a threat in the right situations (but obviously he's an unknown at this point). If the Bills can get a solid #2 WR, the entire group is made better and they're a little further from disaster if the injury bugs hit. just more concerned about getting a solid #1 and letting Sammy be the #2 that he really is. Injuries dictate this
Boatdrinks Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 After that initial sentence, it's quite clear that any opinion you have on this subject is inconsequential. Do us both a favor and don't respond to my posts as I have no use for contentious fans. My initial sentence is closer to the truth than your lobbying to put Hogan in the HOF. This is a Bills board and there are plenty of media outlets one can go to for a healthy serving of Patriot worship. I'll respond to posts as I see fit, thank you.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) The "any decent receiver could do it" idea doesn't hold up. The Pats bring in plenty of guys who can't get playing time for them, or can't do well if they get playing time. Destroying zone coverage isn't as easy as it looks. If it were, everyone would do it. Hogan was doing everything right. That's why he gets playing time, why Brady is willing to throw to him and why he makes the catches when he gets thrown to. No, he's no Julio Jones. But yeah, he's a talented NFL WR. Not a #2, but pretty close. Should've been tendered here, especially as we had so little behind him. The scheme destroyed the defense. That's why people rave about McDaniels. He handed Butler his lunch. FWIW, Kyle Shanahan had the same effect in the other game. Brady and Ryan made the right reads as well. The Patriots have made lots of receivers good. Deion Branch was a Super Bowl MVP. They have made backs look good too. Brandon Bolden had almost 150 yards against us before; Dion Lewis was on the street. They fit perfectly in the system. Hogan is like Branch or David Patton. They plug in guys that can grasp the system. When the game plan calls for those guys to be the focus they need to step up. I still ask, what that he did besides the run after a catch wouldn't have NFL receiver done? What specifically in that game did he do that people were like "that was an impressive play by Hogan?" That's not to knock him. It's an honest question. He ran free and caught the ball. He wasn't doing anything that an NFL receiver wouldn't have done. He executed the plan well and the stats reflect that. If you put Malcolm Mitchell in that position would the results have been any different? What plays did Hogan make that Mitchell wouldn't have? I keep asking it and haven't gotten anyone to answer it. If you asked the same question about Julio from the other game I could think of a handful plays or so that very few receivers would have made (back shoulder TD, toe drag on the sideline, the long TD run after catch, the contested catch in the middle of the field). I'm not comparing Julio to Hogan as players. The stats just happened to be similar but got there differently. He is a solid WR at this point. He's in a great situation too. He offers the Pats some size and speed that they lacked. They've taken advantage of that. He gets down the field which is something that they lacked. He's pretty smart too which is imperative to play in that system (unless you have Gronk's freakish ability). Hogan is going to be an important player for the Pats moving forward IMO. He adds a dimension and has gained their trust. Edited January 26, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
simpleman Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) he was an RFA, and they gave him the min tender which was close to $1.7 nil. The bills couldn't match NE's offer given their cap situation. While not close in $s, it's not unlike what the bills did to Miami with clay. A choice that Buffalo did not have to make. But again, their incompetence in contracts caused the problem. TT could have played for $5 million dollars less last year and proven himself worthy of a rich contract this off season. But like the contract they gave Fritz too early, they created their own downfall. Hogan could still be here and the team could have been better going into 2017, along with having the rest of the $5 million to improve the rest of the team rather than using their cap hell as another excuse for failure. But as was said, like Lev before him and others, the Bills never learn. They get themselves needlessly in trouble by bad financial decisions, and even when they judge a player's worth right, they never have a well thought out plan B to replace a player with someone of a similar talent level, other than to fantasize that a dumpster dive player will do just fine to replace them. Anyone could see they had no clear, reliable options at WR beyond Watkins & Woods. We may have a different owner now, but the Bills Front office still suffers from an addiction to dumpster diving. Edited January 26, 2017 by simpleman
26TrapDraw Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) That crappy bob woods looked pretty good against Seattle He did. I also like his blocking in the running game. If you go back and watch his downfield blocking is excellent. If Whaley is smart he resigns woods. Pick up a stud WR on Day 1. If Dennison can drum into Tt's head ( or whoever the QB ends up being) to utilize our TE down the seam more all of a sudden we have a good to great Wr group. Edited January 26, 2017 by BeefCurtns
Marty McFly Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 The "any decent receiver could do it" idea doesn't hold up. The Pats bring in plenty of guys who can't get playing time for them, or can't do well if they get playing time. Destroying zone coverage isn't as easy as it looks. If it were, everyone would do it. Hogan was doing everything right. That's why he gets playing time, why Brady is willing to throw to him and why he makes the catches when he gets thrown to. No, he's no Julio Jones. But yeah, he's a talented NFL WR. Not a #2, but pretty close. Should've been tendered here, especially as we had so little behind him. I was pissed we let Hogan go. He was always open and when he didnt have a wrist injury he was catching everything. Than after we let Hogan walk we dont bring anyone in as good, I thought it might have been political. Yes there are politics in sports. Hogan said it himself "they have their favorites and stuff life that" or something to that effect. Now hes rippin it up in the playoffs and in the SuperBowl cuz he got picked up by one of the top 3 teams in the NFL. Good for him.
BillsFanInJax Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 Compare the WR Groups of the Falcons, Packers, Steelers and Patriots to the Bills. Enough said. Keep Watkins. Everybody else goes.
Marty McFly Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 He did. I also like his blocking in the running game. If you go back and watch his downfield blocking is excellent. If Whaley is smart he resigns woods. Pick up a stud WR on Day 1. If Dennison can drum into Tt's head ( or whoever the QB ends up being) to utilize our TE down the seam more all of a sudden we have a good to great Wr group. I agree with these statements. The funny thing is if Whaley is smart he resigns Woods but, if Woods is smart hell walk to another team that passes the ball more. By scheme design we pass the least in the league. Woods is gonna go somewhere and ball out like Hogan did. Imagine Woods goes to a pass happy place like NO? He would be a star with Brees chucking him the ball and finally get those accolades and stats hes been missing here at Buffalo. Wish him the best because I know he is gone. Were gonna have to draft one early.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 I agree with these statements. The funny thing is if Whaley is smart he resigns Woods but, if Woods is smart hell walk to another team that passes the ball more. By scheme design we pass the least in the league. Woods is gonna go somewhere and ball out like Hogan did. Imagine Woods goes to a pass happy place like NO? He would be a star with Brees chucking him the ball and finally get those accolades and stats hes been missing here at Buffalo. Wish him the best because I know he is gone. Were gonna have to draft one early. You can't pay Woods $6M plus a year. He's an okay player but he doesn't do anything that makes him special. It's Sammy and guys. Replace Woods fairly early in the draft and you will upgrade the position.
Marty McFly Posted January 26, 2017 Posted January 26, 2017 You can't pay Woods $6M plus a year. He's an okay player but he doesn't do anything that makes him special. It's Sammy and guys. Replace Woods fairly early in the draft and you will upgrade the position. Mike Williams at #10? I would not be complaining if thats what OBD does.
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