IDBillzFan Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, B-Man said: As a small business owner, I like this concept, but I don't see it happening. I'm not a big fan of relying on the government in any capacity, and I have made that know for years, but given the panic that has been rippling through the country, it is clear that companies like mine are about to get wrecked in less than two months if all we do is tell everyone to stay home. Our employees are high tech coders fetching six figures each. But it's based on production. If no one is hiring us to produce, we shut down. It's breaking my heart. 1 1 4
TPS Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: So, how exactly would people suggest doing things different? I've seen the suggestion here that the old and vulnerable should quarantine and everyone else go about their lives. That would ensure a much large number of people infected, and even though the death rate for those under 40 is only 0.2%, that doesn't tell us how many require ICUs or respirators to recover? Then all of those active people would be endangering all of the healthcare workers on the front lines. It's not a simple solution. In times like this the federal government can do what China did--provide the backstop and guarantee all businesses and jobs. We temporarily provide trillions to ensure liquidity to the financial system, and we can do the same to the real economy over this relatively short period of time. In other news, I stopped buying the dip because I don't know where it will end... 2
Deranged Rhino Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, TPS said: So, how exactly would people suggest doing things different? I've seen the suggestion here that the old and vulnerable should quarantine and everyone else go about their lives. That would ensure a much large number of people infected, and even though the death rate for those under 40 is only 0.2%, that doesn't tell us how many require ICUs or respirators to recover? Then all of those active people would be endangering all of the healthcare workers on the front lines. It's not a simple solution. In times like this the federal government can do what China did--provide the backstop and guarantee all businesses and jobs. We temporarily provide trillions to ensure liquidity to the financial system, and we can do the same to the real economy over this relatively short period of time. In other news, I stopped buying the dip because I don't know where it will end... That's the dilemma and I don't know the answer either. There might not be a right answer in the end. Both options do damage, the virus could kill hundreds of thousands or even millions... but a return to a Great Depression will undoubtedly lead to a similar body count. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
TPS Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 24 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: That's the dilemma and I don't know the answer either. There might not be a right answer in the end. Both options do damage, the virus could kill hundreds of thousands or even millions... but a return to a Great Depression will undoubtedly lead to a similar body count. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. We would not experience a GD that lasted years. We have the ability to reestablish the economy, just like China has. In a crisis, everyone is a socialist.... That said, the economy will never be the same after this.
TPS Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 This guy has been way ahead of the curve on the virus. You guys will like this one, but he's an equal opportunity criticizer...
3rdnlng Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 25 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: That's the dilemma and I don't know the answer either. There might not be a right answer in the end. Both options do damage, the virus could kill hundreds of thousands or even millions... but a return to a Great Depression will undoubtedly lead to a similar body count. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Actually I think the stay at home efforts at this time are only an effort to flatten the curve while at the same time ramping up our production of masks, gloves, ventilators, etc. I think the plan is for the restrictions to be eased once that flattening occurs. It'll be a tough balancing act. 4 minutes ago, TPS said: This guy has been way ahead of the curve on the virus. You guys will like this one, but he's an equal opportunity criticizer... Who would you rather have leading the executive branch at this time? Trump? Biden? Sanders?
Foxx Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, TPS said: .. In other news, I stopped buying the dip because I don't know where it will end... there has been an incremental shutdown all leading up to what appears to be a full stop this weekend. perhaps this coming Monday will be the (Black) Monday echo i feared this past week. they should just shutter the market if they are going to crash the economy. i mean, seriously, what do they think is going to happen? Edited March 20, 2020 by Foxx 1
TPS Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 46 minutes ago, Foxx said: there has been an incremental shutdown all leading up to what appears to be a full stop this weekend. perhaps this coming Monday will be the (Black) Monday echo i feared this past week. they should just shutter the market if they are going to crash the economy. i mean, seriously, what do they think is going to happen? You don't think this past Monday was it? Second largest drop in the Dow in history. I said last week, they will most likely close it, and probably should. Anyone who "wants their money" has had ample time. It's all about getting through the next 4-5 weeks.
TPS Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said: Who would you rather have leading the executive branch at this time? Trump? Biden? Sanders? You know you won't like it... Based on these three, if I want someone to go up against the Deep State or cut a deal, it's Trump. If I want someone to lead through this healthcare crisis, somone who would've been focused early on (instead of the stock market), and making sure protecting workers was a priority (which means their businesses as well), then it's Bernie. If I want someone stuck in a nursing home, it's Biden... 1
GG Posted March 20, 2020 Author Posted March 20, 2020 18 minutes ago, TPS said: You know you won't like it... Based on these three, if I want someone to go up against the Deep State or cut a deal, it's Trump. If I want someone to lead through this healthcare crisis, somone who would've been focused early on (instead of the stock market), and making sure protecting workers was a priority (which means their businesses as well), then it's Bernie. If I want someone stuck in a nursing home, it's Biden... You want the one guy who's never ever held a job to be in charge of a crisis? Don't you think there's a reason that Hillary destroyed him and why nobody wants to work with him? Because he's the guy on a group project who always talks but never does the job that was assigned to him. 2
Chandemonium Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, TPS said: We would not experience a GD that lasted years. We have the ability to reestablish the economy, just like China has. In a crisis, everyone is a socialist.... That said, the economy will never be the same after this. I hope you’re right about the bolded. Sadly I think the wild card will be how long people will tolerate being unable to work or even leave their homes before it leads to massive social unrest which leads to full on armed revolt. I sincerely hope we don’t get to that point and don’t think we will, but I can’t say it would surprise me either. Edited March 20, 2020 by Chandemonium 1
TPS Posted March 20, 2020 Posted March 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, GG said: You want the one guy who's never ever held a job to be in charge of a crisis? Don't you think there's a reason that Hillary destroyed him and why nobody wants to work with him? Because he's the guy on a group project who always talks but never does the job that was assigned to him. It was a tough choice between the narcissist, the socialist, and the senility...
3rdnlng Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, TPS said: It was a tough choice between the narcissist, the socialist, and the senility... There's not a doubt in my mind that Bernie would, if given the chance, interject his socialist ideals into any and all efforts to thwart the virus. There may be some socialistic aspects to what Trump & Congress are doing but they'll have a sunset clause. Bernie's bs would mirror the camel's nose under the tent and have permanent changes to our country. 1
Foxx Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 59 minutes ago, TPS said: You don't think this past Monday was it? Second largest drop in the Dow in history. I said last week, they will most likely close it, and probably should. Anyone who "wants their money" has had ample time. It's all about getting through the next 4-5 weeks. a full stop might portend something much worse this coming Monday.
LSHMEAB Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) Is it LEGAL to simultaneously believe that the virus is pretty serious and not some conspiracy, but also not worth the sacrifice we're making to the economy and our way of life? I just don't see how COVID is serious enough to warrant THIS astronomical cost. If it was the bubonic plague, sure. I get it. This? I just don't see the evidence. Freedom isn't free. On the flip side, gotta inject my liberal views and say that the little 2500 dollar minimum addendum to this stimulus package is absurd. As a matter of fact, the entire notion of means testing during an economic emergency is absurd. How in the name of God can you possibly use 2018 as a gauge for the situation someone is in now? What if someone was unemployed in 2018, got a job, and recently lost it due to this? They get ZERO. What if someone WAS working in 2018, retired, and is now collecting SS? If you're collecting SS, the virus has zero impact on your economic situation. Also, 99k per year in CA or NY is not wealthy. Why would someone making 150k be excluded? They have bills too. I get it; Dems have pushed for means testing. But that makes zero sense in a crisis. If you're gonna send checks, just send them to everyone and sort it out later. Not a fan of McConnel's proposal. Edited March 21, 2020 by LSHMEAB 3
ALF Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 NY, IRS push tax deadline to July 15 NY is tied to federal government tax deadline https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/NY-IRS-push-tax-deadline-to-July-15-15145786.php 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 8 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: Is it LEGAL to simultaneously believe that the virus is pretty serious and not some conspiracy, but also not worth the sacrifice we're making to the economy and our way of life? I just don't see how COVID is serious enough to warrant THIS astronomical cost. If it was the bubonic plague, sure. I get it. This? I just don't see the evidence. Freedom isn't free. On the flip side, gotta inject my liberal views and say that the little 2500 dollar minimum addendum to this stimulus package is absurd. As a matter of fact, the entire notion of means testing during an economic emergency is absurd. How in the name of God can you possibly use 2018 as a gauge for the situation someone is in now? What if someone was unemployed in 2018, got a job, and recently lost it due to this? They get ZERO. What if someone WAS working in 2018, retired, and is now collecting SS? If you're collecting SS, the virus has zero impact on your economic situation. Also, 99k per year in CA or NY is not wealthy. Why would someone making 150k be excluded? They have bills too. I get it; Dems have pushed for means testing. But that makes zero sense in a crisis. If you're gonna send checks, just send them to everyone and sort it out later. Not a fan of McConnel's proposal. The "cure" is worse than the disease, no matter what the quarantine shamers say. 1 1
RochesterRob Posted March 21, 2020 Posted March 21, 2020 15 hours ago, TPS said: We would not experience a GD that lasted years. We have the ability to reestablish the economy, just like China has. In a crisis, everyone is a socialist.... That said, the economy will never be the same after this. We don't know that a downturn will not last for years. There are so many more working parts to the economy than there were during the 1930's. Also, once employment recovers that does not automatically mean the Dow recovers to the pre-virus level. In the mean time quite a few Americans planned on using those pre-virus gains to fund an active retirement. Purchasing things such as vacation properties, campers, ATV's, etc. and those purchases may be suspended indefinitely. Businesses depend on making sales on these kinds of items and their income will be reduced. Our economic model for the past few decades has been the velocity of money which means greater economic activity when a dollar is passed more readily through the economy. People holding money lessens economic activity.
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