Doesn't Whaley have to retain Taylor?

[BADOLBILZ]

If so, it's probably more media related than football related. That's a bad way to decide, but it could happen. He can stock the player cupboard pretty well. QB's are hard to come by, and Tyrod doesn't suck.

 

 

Whaley was brought in with Buddy Nix and immediately began being groomed to become the Bills GM.

 

That was 7 years ago, which is an eternity in most NFL cities.

 

I agree that the team has had at least wildcard playoff spot capable talent.....excluding the QB position.......for probably 5 years now.

 

But he's ALSO had lot's of early draft picks and money to work with so I'd put his non-QB personnel work as no better than average.

 

But finding a good QB is the biggest part of the personnel job and not producing in that area greatly diminishes his portfolio.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

If Whaley drafts a QB he buys himself 3 years while that QB develops. So you are wrong. It would not be to his benefit to keep Tyrod

 

I thought we were able to see if a guy wasn't going to develop after one preseason, or maybe half of one, and fire the GM then

[Augie]

Whaley was brought in with Buddy Nix and immediately began being groomed to become the Bills GM.

 

That was 7 years ago, which is an eternity in most NFL cities.

 

I agree that the team has had at least wildcard playoff spot capable talent.....excluding the QB position.......for probably 5 years now.

 

But he's ALSO had lot's of early draft picks and money to work with so I'd put his non-QB personnel work as no better than average.

 

But finding a good QB is the biggest part of the personnel job and not producing in that area greatly diminishes his portfolio.

 

I agree with a lot of that, but like The Drought, I don't start the clock until he's fully in charge. I know he gets some degree of credit/blame prior to that, but it's where my personal clock starts. He's fully accountable now, and I like that.

[jeffismagic]

Whaley was brought in with Buddy Nix and immediately began being groomed to become the Bills GM.

 

That was 7 years ago, which is an eternity in most NFL cities.

 

I agree that the team has had at least wildcard playoff spot capable talent.....excluding the QB position.......for probably 5 years now.

 

But he's ALSO had lot's of early draft picks and money to work with so I'd put his non-QB personnel work as no better than average.

 

But finding a good QB is the biggest part of the personnel job and not producing in that area greatly diminishes his portfolio.

 

I am not happy with Whaley and the QB situation but you can't start the clock for him as a GM before he got the position.

[BADOLBILZ]

I am not happy with Whaley and the QB situation but you can't start the clock for him as a GM before he got the position.

 

I agree with a lot of that, but like The Drought, I don't start the clock until he's fully in charge. I know he gets some degree of credit/blame prior to that, but it's where my personal clock starts. He's fully accountable now, and I like that.

 

 

 

When you guys want to start the clock is irrelevant. It's when the Pegula's want to.

 

There was a prevailing thought by many like yourselves that there was no way that the Pegula's wouldn't give Rex 3 years......that's just standard NFL etiquette, right?

 

And yet I've believed all along that they were already thinking better than a year ago that they may have to fire Rex sooner than later.

[jeffismagic]

When you guys want to start the clock is irrelevant. It's when the Pegula's want to.

 

There was a prevailing thought by many like yourselves that there was no way that the Pegula's wouldn't give Rex 3 years......that's just standard NFL etiquette, right?

 

And yet I've believed all along that they were already thinking better than a year ago that they may have to fire Rex sooner than later.

Yes it's up to the Pegulas. There is no evidence that he is leaving soon.

[Kelly the Dog]

When you guys want to start the clock is irrelevant. It's when the Pegula's want to.

 

There was a prevailing thought by many like yourselves that there was no way that the Pegula's wouldn't give Rex 3 years......that's just standard NFL etiquette, right?

 

And yet I've believed all along that they were already thinking better than a year ago that they may have to fire Rex sooner than later.

Considering that in the last year the Pegulas have given Whaley an extension and power to choose the HC while retaining the power of the 53, not to mention what Terry went out of his way to say in the interviews, the Pegulas aren't about to fire Whaley soon. If they tank, all bets are off. But there isn't any indication whatsoever that they are unhappy with him, unless you want to read into some stuff they said as bad (which they never said) and totally ignore other good stuff they said (which they did).

 

I think he needs to produce quick, too. But I don't think he's on a one year trial basis in any way.

 

If he screws up the quartback situation and the Bills finish 5-11, which is possible, then maybe.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I don't underestimate the fan in the Pegulas. I think that is what makes them unpredictable as owners.

 

The difference I see on Rex and Whaley is that I believe they almost fired Rex at the end of last year and from that point I think he always needed a playoff appearance to survive beyond year 2.

 

I think there is a chance Whaley goes after next season - because they are instinctive fan like owners - but I don't think that is their thinking right now.

 

That is how I think it is different.

 

I honestly don't believe the ultimatum thing. What I think is that the Pegulas, like many of us, wanted to see well-coached competitive football, with a well prepared team, good game-aware play calling, and no bonehead moves attributable to the coach. I think the 12 man penalties and the overall effort & preparation level had Pegula "testy" by mid-season and thinking about change, and the 10 men on field in the Miami game was the last straw.

 

I think if Rex's D had shown improvement, avoided stupid mistakes, and looked well prepared every week 1) we would have been 9-7 0r 10-6 easily 2) Rex would have stayed without playoffs. Pegula gave him everything he wanted, then it was "no excuses, deliver or be gone"

 

I think Pegula will have a similar strategy and expectation with Whaley. I think he will get everything he wants - he ran the coaching search, he keeps control of the 53, it's harder to tell what's behind the scenes but if he wants new scouts or whatever (equipment for film review, whatever) I bet he gets it. But there will be expectations for what Pegula wants to see - not necessarily what the fans think they are - and if Whaley doesn't meet them he will be gone.

[jeffismagic]

 

I honestly don't believe the ultimatum thing. What I think is that the Pegulas, like many of us, wanted to see well-coached competitive football, with a well prepared team, good game-aware play calling, and no bonehead moves attributable to the coach. I think the 12 man penalties and the overall effort & preparation level had Pegula "testy" by mid-season and thinking about change, and the 10 men on field in the Miami game was the last straw.

 

I think if Rex's D had shown improvement, avoided stupid mistakes, and looked well prepared every week 1) we would have been 9-7 0r 10-6 easily 2) Rex would have stayed without playoffs. Pegula gave him everything he wanted, then it was "no excuses, deliver or be gone"

 

I think Pegula will have a similar strategy and expectation with Whaley. I think he will get everything he wants - he ran the coaching search, he keeps control of the 53, it's harder to tell what's behind the scenes but if he wants new scouts or whatever (equipment for film review, whatever) I bet he gets it. But there will be expectations for what Pegula wants to see - not necessarily what the fans think they are - and if Whaley doesn't meet them he will be gone.

Good points. The Pegulas are not short term thinkers. Rex was gone because they no longer believed he was the right person for the job. Whaley will only be gone soon if the Pegulas are sold on getting to the wild card at any cost. I don't think that's what is going on.

[iinii]

Can someone demonstrate how Whaley is actually in win now mode? If the Pegulas wanted to move on they would have fired him along with Rex before starting the coaching search. Lots of wishful thinking here.

Not necessarily. Rex was easy low hanging fruit. Whaley's situation on the other hand is not so cut and dry. Pegs is still learning on the job and firing Whaley too would prove to everyone he is in way over his head. Peg's ego won't admit that yet.

[BADOLBILZ]

Considering that in the last year the Pegulas have given Whaley an extension and power to choose the HC while retaining the power of the 53, not to mention what Terry went out of his way to say in the interviews, the Pegulas aren't about to fire Whaley soon. If they tank, all bets are off. But there isn't any indication whatsoever that they are unhappy with him, unless you want to read into some stuff they said as bad (which they never said) and totally ignore other good stuff they said (which they did).

 

I think he needs to produce quick, too. But I don't think he's on a one year trial basis in any way.

 

If he screws up the quartback situation and the Bills finish 5-11, which is possible, then maybe.

 

 

Don't underestimate the impact of fan HATE.

 

Not dislike or mixed emotions.

 

Donahoe got fired in part because many fans absolutely HATED him and the rest were at best indifferent.

 

I see a similar trend with Whaley.

 

It's disappointing when you fall short of the playoffs with playoff talent like the Bills in recent seasons and the Donahoe/Bledsoe Bills of 2004..........it's another when you THEN replace the QB with a young one that stinks and disgust the fanbase with bad football(see your 5-11 reference).

 

The parallels are there.

 

Whaley has a VERY low approval rating.......to be kind.

 

You used to be a HUGE Whaley fan.......you met him, found him to be likeable....he should have had a fan for life....and even YOU are not feeling good about his impact on the organization.

[Rico]

 

 

Don't underestimate the impact of fan HATE.

 

Not dislike or mixed emotions.

 

Donahoe got fired in part because many fans absolutely HATED him and the rest were at best indifferent.

 

I see a similar trend with Whaley.

 

It's disappointing when you fall short of the playoffs with playoff talent like the Bills in recent seasons and the Donahoe/Bledsoe Bills of 2004..........it's another when you THEN replace the QB with a young one that stinks and disgust the fanbase with bad football(see your 5-11 reference).

 

The parallels are there.

 

Whaley has a VERY low approval rating.......to be kind.

 

You used to be a HUGE Whaley fan.......you met him, found him to be likeable....he should have had a fan for life....and even YOU are not feeling good about his impact on the organization.

Exactly.

[Augie]

I HATE losing, and I felt Donahoe led to more of that. I think Whaley can build a roster, so that's different. So we can disagree, which is fine. Even our win/loss will never be the final answer, because there are so many moving parts.

[#34fan]

If Whaley fields a sub-500 effort next season, he's fired... Plain and simple... Might as well take a few chances, Doug!

[Augie]

If Whaley fields a sub-500 effort next season, he's fired... Plain and simple... Might as well take a few chances, Doug!

Thank you for your input, Mr Pegula.

[BADOLBILZ]

I HATE losing, and I felt Donahoe led to more of that. I think Whaley can build a roster, so that's different. So we can disagree, which is fine. Even our win/loss will never be the final answer, because there are so many moving parts.

 

 

If they fall back to the bottom of the league again the question will be asked is whether Whaley deserves to be the guy in charge of the re-boot when he failed to produce a playoff team in 4 seasons as GM and 7 years as a general in "Team Show-Me The Baby".

 

Donahoe got 4 years.

 

The parallels are there.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

Don't underestimate the impact of fan HATE.

 

Not dislike or mixed emotions.

 

Donahoe got fired in part because many fans absolutely HATED him and the rest were at best indifferent.

 

I see a similar trend with Whaley.

 

It's disappointing when you fall short of the playoffs with playoff talent like the Bills in recent seasons and the Donahoe/Bledsoe Bills of 2004..........it's another when you THEN replace the QB with a young one that stinks and disgust the fanbase with bad football(see your 5-11 reference).

 

The parallels are there.

 

Whaley has a VERY low approval rating.......to be kind.

 

You used to be a HUGE Whaley fan.......you met him, found him to be likeable....he should have had a fan for life....and even YOU are not feeling good about his impact on the organization.

Because I'm reasonable. Take things as they come. Going back a ways I hated the Jauron hire. Thought he sucked. Didn't think much of the Gailey hire but didn't think we had a shot at anyone good. He won me over for a while for making chicken salad out of chicken schitt but after awhile because of his defensive decisions he had to go. I didn't know much about Marrone so I gave him a chance and there wasn't anyone realistic I really wanted. I soured on him before halfway into his second season. I am the optimist as you know but I don't just rubber promo stamp anything.

 

I was in favor of the Rex hire but soured on him quick, as soon as I saw we werent getting Rex. I will admit and have no problem admitting I like Whaley but that doesn't at all mean I like everything he does. I don't think Marrone or Rex was his first choice. I do think he backed both of them so he's complicit to a degree.

 

He gambled on Sammy and I think it was a good move. I'd do it again. He's a star. It's not Whaley's fault he got hurt like there is some blame to be had for the Lawson pick knowing he was hurt. IMO there is a bunch of talent. Maybe 11-15 in league. If Rex didn't !@#$ up the defense we probably go to the playoffs either year.

 

QB is an issue. If he doesn't get it right he needs to go.

[Augie]

If they fall back to the bottom of the league again the question will be asked is whether Whaley deserves to be the guy in charge of the re-boot when he failed to produce a playoff team in 4 seasons as GM and 7 years as a general in "Team Show-Me The Baby".

 

Donahoe got 4 years.

 

The parallels are there.

If they fall back to the bottom, I agree. I just don't see that drop. Worst case is being a little below .500 in the first year (again). I wish we weren't starting over on offense, that was NOT what needed fixing!

[BADOLBILZ]

Exactly.

 

 

Doug's fine handling of the media pretty much ASSURES that the media will be fanning the flames for his dismissal all next season as well.

 

Prior to the PC disaster when he "declined" to address the Rex firing for a week and then came out and acted like a complete idiot trying to further stone the media.........the fan dislike was just for his body of work.

 

Now people think he's a f*cking idiot too boot.

 

Going to be a very interesting year coming up for Doug.

[Kelly the Dog]

If they fall back to the bottom, I agree. I just don't see that drop. Worst case is being a little below .500 in the first year (again). I wish we weren't starting over on offense, that was NOT what needed fixing!

If we get rid of TT and don't get a clear top 10-15 guy like Brees or Rivers ( not that I think we get either) we could easily be a 6 win team.