Bill from NYC Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 dareus (fitness) & hughes (mental)How would you classify Gilmore? As a dedicated team player who goes all out? You've got to at least consider Sammy. He cost two #1 picks and he hasn't produced anywhere near a level equating to that.Don't forget the 4th.
hondo in seattle Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 Am I the only one who thinks we as fans have a lack of evidence to call someone lazy and unmotivated. I mean I'm not at the practice facility, the workout room, the medical rooms. If you want to blast Dareus for his Selfishness, or Hughes for undiscilplined personal fouls, I get that. I'd still believe that with good, accountable coaching that could be fixed quickly. No, you are not the only one. I think we fans are often way too judgmental. A little information is dangerous.
Boatdrinks Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 The OP said lazy and unmotivated players. You have issue with Watkins' being injured. You have issue with "leadership". Those are separate distinctions. He is not lazy or unmotivated. He works hard. He has been vocal in support of Tyrod or whomever the QB is who is given the reigns by the coaching staff. He supported Orton. He supported EJ. He supported Tyrod. When healthy he plays very well. He's mentioned himself that he has to get past injuries. He has mentioned himself when he can do a better job. That is leadership. If you disagree with that, fine. But in no way does that indicate lazy or unmotivated. Seems to me like he's a great teammate. I've always made a point to catch an interview with him when it's available and never heard anything to make me think otherwise. Haven't seen anything when he's been on the field either ( though he hasn't been as often as I would like) . I think there's something else going on with most of his detractors , probably the overblown social media stuff that I found hilarious and didn't blame him for one bit, jmo. No, you are not the only one. I think we fans are often way too judgmental. A little information is dangerous. Agreed. We don't know much about these guys motivation or laziness. I don't think you can get to the NFL by being a couch potato. I think most all players are motivated and not lazy, but may just be motivated by money or whatever. Truly having fire and passion for the game is something else and I think it shows which guys have it and which don't. I think a guy like Hughes is undisciplined and a loose cannon ant times but not lazy or unmotivated. He plays with passion and fire. A guy like Gilmore , to me, looks to not care less if the team wins or loses , just wants to stay healthy and get his next paycheck. No fire in the belly. I think Dareus has fire in the belly and it shows when he plays. I get these guys wanting to smoke pot for pain mangement cuz a d I lineman is in a car wreck every week. I think the league should only test for PE's . I don't view it as a player being lazy.
hondo in seattle Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 The idiots on the team are also the best players on the team. Good luck with that. Jerry Hughes is an idiot but when you can get 10+ sacks in this league you are untouchable Talented players are not untouchable. Bill Walsh says one of the best players on the 49ers when he took over was Ron Singleton. Singleton played left tackle and was a good one. But he had an attitude problem. So Walsh had a member of his staff clear out Singleton's locker and dump the stuff on the front steps of Singleton's home. While the team only went 6-10 that year and not having a good LT hurt, Walsh felt he sent an important message. Coaches, he says, have to be "fast, firm and fair" and have a "hard edge" sometimes. McDermott talked about building a winning culture. If he sees players not embracing that culture, he has to act.
Boatdrinks Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 Talented players are not untouchable. Bill Walsh says one of the best players on the 49ers when he took over was Ron Singleton. Singleton played left tackle and was a good one. But he had an attitude problem. So Walsh had a member of his staff clear out Singleton's locker and dump the stuff on the front steps of Singleton's home. While the team only went 6-10 that year and not having a good LT hurt, Walsh felt he sent an important message. Coaches, he says, have to be "fast, firm and fair" and have a "hard edge" sometimes. McDermott talked about building a winning culture. If he sees players not embracing that culture, he has to act. While a good anecdote, that was probably easier to do with no salary cap ramification to think about. Sometimes as a HC you are truly " stuck" with a guy and need to find another way to reach them . I get that the message needs to be sent, and I agree with the message itself. Just need to find a different way to send it these days.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 The OP said lazy and unmotivated players. You have issue with Watkins' being injured. You have issue with "leadership". Those are separate distinctions. He is not lazy or unmotivated. He works hard. He has been vocal in support of Tyrod or whomever the QB is who is given the reigns by the coaching staff. He supported Orton. He supported EJ. He supported Tyrod. When healthy he plays very well. He's mentioned himself that he has to get past injuries. He has mentioned himself when he can do a better job. That is leadership. If you disagree with that, fine. But in no way does that indicate lazy or unmotivated. I agree with this. Didn't someone say that the feeling, overall, in the clubhouse was that the offense produced and the D didn't hold up its end? (Which feeling, if it's a feeling, the stats support for the most part). Even there, there's a lot to sort out.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) You've got to at least consider Sammy. He cost two #1 picks and he hasn't produced anywhere near a level equating to that. Not saying he's lazy. Maybe just unlucky. But whatever the reason, he certainly hasn't been worth the investment to this point.That's due to injury. Not for a lack of character. If anything, Sammy wants a McD to crack the whip around OBD. As for the OP I would be shocked if there were any sizable purge of underperforming players, especially since those are some key talents. The change in culture will take care of them. Remember what Dareus said once. "Coach Saban don't play." Well neither will McD. If Dareus can start for Nick Saban, he can start for Sean McDermott. Edited January 14, 2017 by PromoTheRobot
Boatdrinks Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) I agree with this. Didn't someone say that the feeling, overall, in the clubhouse was that the offense produced and the D didn't hold up its end? (Which feeling, if it's a feeling, the stats support for the most part). Even there, there's a lot to sort out. There may be something to that. When the first " leak" was out about Rex's job status the AM of the PIT game, it sure seemed like the defense had little interest in making a tackle. I remember a story about the game that ultimately did in H Bullough as Bills coach in '86. The word was out that HB would be fired if the team lost to TB . A story later appeared that Bruce Smith said in the defensive huddle that he would " kick the a$$" of any guy that made a tackle that day. Seems a pretty easy way to have a crappy game on D- just don't tackle the ball carrier. Edited January 14, 2017 by Boatdrinks
Meathead Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 for the love of ... stop comparing everything to the cheaters as if they are the standard for all things football holy crap. all their genius is wrapped up in the right arm of their once per generation prom queen that fell into their laps cant wait until she gets old and fat
Nick the Greek Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 In order to truly answer this question, I feel that you would need to be in the Bills locker room on a daily basis and interacting with players, as to view chemistry and work ethic. How would any poster have access to this?
papazoid Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 How would you classify Gilmore? As a dedicated team player who goes all out? dedicated team player in coverage. an unwilling tackler vs run. I made other comments earlier in this thread.... Gilmore lazy ? ...I don't think so, he's in great shape. Gilmore unmotivated ?... I don't think so, he's in a contract year. Gilmore a big mouth ?....I don't think so, in fact it's just the opposite, he's quiet. Gilmore an unwilling tackler ??..hell yea, probably selfishly motivated by trying to stay injury free.he wasn't a great tackler before that which is why I wouldn't pay him elite franchise tag money. Gilmore chirped one time earlier this year pointing out that the bills leave their corners in man to man coverage more than any other team in the league. which was in response to repeated questions about his perceived and real drop in play. a fair comment.
EasternOHBillsFan Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 Lazy? Unmotivated? Big mouthed? I can't name a single player on the Bills that are any of those things. I know you are hinting at Dareus but he is none of those things. Immature and a bit of a knucklehead? Okay. But lazy, unmotivated, big mouthed? I believe you have confused Dareus with Rex, Rob and their Club Bums associates. Or maybe the Buff News reporters. I challenge you to name a single player who matches your description. Are you a player union representative or related to a player? Did you even watch any of the games this year? The Ryans were fools but some of the players just flat out quit or didn't give close to 100%.... blaming the reporters just makes you sound even worse.
FireChan Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 The OP said lazy and unmotivated players. You have issue with Watkins' being injured. You have issue with "leadership". Those are separate distinctions. He is not lazy or unmotivated. He works hard. He has been vocal in support of Tyrod or whomever the QB is who is given the reigns by the coaching staff. He supported Orton. He supported EJ. He supported Tyrod. When healthy he plays very well. He's mentioned himself that he has to get past injuries. He has mentioned himself when he can do a better job. That is leadership. If you disagree with that, fine. But in no way does that indicate lazy or unmotivated. He also said big mouthed. and Sammy takes the cake on that front. No one regularly spews more horsecrap from the bench than Sammy.
Boatdrinks Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 He also said big mouthed. and Sammy takes the cake on that front. No one regularly spews more horsecrap from the bench than Sammy. What are you referring to? Examples please... Watkins doesn't fit the profile of big- mouthed
FireChan Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 What are you referring to? Examples please... Watkins doesn't fit the profile of big- mouthed you're making me look bad. All y'all little jobs. Players need to hold themselves accountable. We need a coach willing to scream at us. Etc etc etc. I challenge you to find another Bill on the team in the last 3 years who has said more inflammatory stuff.
White Linen Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) Am I the only one who thinks we as fans have a lack of evidence to call someone lazy and unmotivated. I mean I'm not at the practice facility, the workout room, the medical rooms. If you want to blast Dareus for his Selfishness, or Hughes for undiscilplined personal fouls, I get that. I'd still believe that with good, accountable coaching that could be fixed quickly. You've had some excellent posts today. I enjoy reading them. You are not alone - if I had to guess, there's more of us that think this way. Edited January 14, 2017 by Triple Threat
Boatdrinks Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 you're making me look bad. All y'all little jobs. Players need to hold themselves accountable. We need a coach willing to scream at us. Etc etc etc. I challenge you to find another Bill on the team in the last 3 years who has said more inflammatory stuff. That's hardly trash talk or big mouth stuff. Just answering questions posed to him . Doesn't seem to be a lot of accountability on that roster and Rex didn't hold anyone accountable. Guy wants to win and those who don't care need to be purged. No leadership in lying or saying nobody needs to do better. He always mentions and includes himself. Now, chatter on a social media site? Don't think that falls into the category. He was talking to a few idiots that crossed a line socially. That's not the same as someone who spouts off during games or to the media. You've got a major personal grudge there for some reason. Don't think many football fans would describe Sammy as a big mouth.
FireChan Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) That's hardly trash talk or big mouth stuff. Just answering questions posed to him . Doesn't seem to be a lot of accountability on that roster and Rex didn't hold anyone accountable. Guy wants to win and those who don't care need to be purged. No leadership in lying or saying nobody needs to do better. He always mentions and includes himself. Now, chatter on a social media site? Don't think that falls into the category. He was talking to a few idiots that crossed a line socially. That's not the same as someone who spouts off during games or to the media. You've got a major personal grudge there for some reason. Don't think many football fans would describe Sammy as a big mouth.Huh? How is "the team is making me look bad," not a big mouth comment? It would sound right at home with a clown like Ochocinco or TO. Sammy called out the players from the bench. That's something you don't do. Especially when you're gonna wait a couple weeks, then call out the coaches. Edited January 14, 2017 by FireChan
Boatdrinks Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 So a quote from 2015 saying not getting targets is making " me look bad and making yourself ( the OC) look bad" is big mouthed? The guy wants to win- he also proceeded to back that up - in spades , putting up top numbers when they got their head out of their arse and threw him the ball. It ain't trash if you back it up. The quote about the Coaches needing to be tougher on the Bills was from this season, not 2015 . That's more than a couple " weeks" later. And just what is wrong with saying that when the Coach has been fired and there will be a new coach? Do you want milquetoast answers that say nothing? This kid wants to win, I hope he stays healthy and wish him luck in that regard. Give me more players that hate to lose , and get rid of guys just picking up a paycheck .
FireChan Posted January 14, 2017 Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) So a quote from 2015 saying not getting targets is making " me look bad and making yourself ( the OC) look bad" is big mouthed? The guy wants to win- he also proceeded to back that up - in spades , putting up top numbers when they got their head out of their arse and threw him the ball. It ain't trash if you back it up. The quote about the Coaches needing to be tougher on the Bills was from this season, not 2015 . That's more than a couple " weeks" later. And just what is wrong with saying that when the Coach has been fired and there will be a new coach? Do you want milquetoast answers that say nothing? This kid wants to win, I hope he stays healthy and wish him luck in that regard. Give me more players that hate to lose , and get rid of guys just picking up a paycheck . What's with these false choices? Kyle Williams hates losing and is a leader and has never acted like Sammy has. You're right. Sammy called out the players and blamed them. Then the next year blamed the coaches. You're confusing spouting off BS for leadership. It doesn't jive well. Especially from the bench. Edited January 14, 2017 by FireChan
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