Maury Ballstein Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 I don't get it either. But if Tyrod is let go and the team brings in a vet FA QB or a rookie I'm certain the fall off on offense and increase in turnovers will have fans saying, "What the !@#$? Why did we get rid of Tyrod?" However, Old School and Ryan L will most likely never admit defeat. We can go 1-15 with a rookie qb and I wouldn't. Aikman and Manning were brutal as rookies then lit the league up. As long as Tyrod is here we won't be relevant.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 IMO, the defensive collapse in the Oakland game was because that side of the ball saw Taylor's blank stare and they knew he had no answer. He was done. It was like popping a balloon with a needle. Taylor has only 2 fourth quarter comebacks in 29 game starts. Just think about that. Fans can twist and turn Taylor's numbers as much as they like, but the name of the NFL game is winning the game in crunch time. If your QB can not do that, then you are not going to make the playoffs unless you play in the AFC south division. Is he never going to get to the next level of putting the team on his shoulders and winning the tough games? I don't know, but that's his major flaw and it's a very bad one to have. If he's a Bill next year I'll be rooting for him and hoping he can do it. That's just how I feel about it. I do like the guy. Sorry but that's ridiculous. You're blaming the defensive implosion on the look in Tyrod's eyes? Makes no sense? How do you come to this conclusion that they will automatically get worse? Plenty of good offenses and defenses maintain high rankings year in and year out. That's kinda' the point.......build an identity so you can sustain success. Like I said if you don't see how this offense could improve from around 10th the past two years.........not FIRST but TENTH...... given all of the injuries they've had........you've got battered Bills-fan syndrome. I'm not sure you're right about Norman. The Panthers let him walk because he's not a great man cover corner - he takes a lot of chances and uses his recovery speed to make plays. Their system doesn't require paying corners top dollar (which amounts are usually reserved for elite man corners). I think they knew they'd be losing a great player. Their problem was not drafting in anticipation having to replace him. McD gets a relatively low amount of the blame here. Dave Gettleman's approach with the Giants and with Carolina is to invest in the front seven, not the backfield.
Big Gun Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Well you did not focus on the part in my post where I said I mostly put that up to show the playcalling. So density must also be a trait of yours. And TT did come back against the Dolphins in the 4th qtr just this season - including taking the lead - so no need to go back to VT days if that's the bar he needs to jump over for you. Never seen a fan and/or fanbase deride and want to run the best or second best player on their team out of town like this in my 50 years of watching FB. I don't get you. Where? Still couldn't get the job finished against Miami or Baltimore or Oakland or Pittsburgh or Seattle Second best player, just stop. Tyrod is a backup in this league, he is not consistent enough to be a full time starter. Kind of like all the other hot garbage QBs that have come through here the last 17 years.
1billsfan Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) Sorry but that's ridiculous. You're blaming the defensive implosion on the look in Tyrod's eyes? Yes I am. I think there's a big psychological facet to the NFL game. Granted, the defense was an anchor drag to this team during the season no doubt. But that game turned on a dime when Taylor showed he had nothing. I like Taylor, but I think he is missing a key element to his game and that's closing the deal against good teams. BTW, nothing said on this board will have any impact to the decision Whaley and McDermott will make. If they bring him back then I'll just hope he can up his game against good teams. Because there'll be a lot of them next year. Their schedule looks brutal. Edited January 15, 2017 by 1billsfan
Gugny Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 BTW, nothing said on this board will have any impact to the decision Whaley and McDermott will make. If they bring him back then I'll just hope he can up his game against good teams. Exactly. As one of the more "vocal" Tyrod Taylor critics, I will actually be okay if they bring him back. It's not like he's horrible at everything. Here's to hoping that, if he stays, he can make the necessary improvements. Go Bills.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Yes I am. I think there's a big psychological facet to the NFL game. Granted, the defense was an anchor drag to this team during the season no doubt. But that game turned on a dime when Taylor showed he had nothing. I like Taylor, but I think he is missing a key element to his game and that's closing the deal against good teams. BTW, nothing said on this board will have any impact to the decision Whaley and McDermott will make. If they bring him back then I'll just hope he can up his game against good teams. Because there'll be a lot of them next year. Their schedule looks brutal. Welp. That's a totally unprovable hypothesis. Seems extreme to me.
OldNMBillsFan Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Yes I am. I think there's a big psychological facet to the NFL game. Granted, the defense was an anchor drag to this team during the season no doubt. But that game turned on a dime when Taylor showed he had nothing. I like Taylor, but I think he is missing a key element to his game and that's closing the deal against good teams. BTW, nothing said on this board will have any impact to the decision Whaley and McDermott will make. If they bring him back then I'll just hope he can up his game against good teams. Because there'll be a lot of them next year. Their schedule looks brutal. And I thought Woods was !@#$ing Crazy!!
aristocrat Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Yes I am. I think there's a big psychological facet to the NFL game. Granted, the defense was an anchor drag to this team during the season no doubt. But that game turned on a dime when Taylor showed he had nothing. I like Taylor, but I think he is missing a key element to his game and that's closing the deal against good teams. BTW, nothing said on this board will have any impact to the decision Whaley and McDermott will make. If they bring him back then I'll just hope he can up his game against good teams. Because there'll be a lot of them next year. Their schedule looks brutal. what about the defense being unclutch? the defense has got to keep you in games in order to give tyrod the chance to win. houston's defense yesterday kept them in that game but brock just couldn't score. a big comparison to tyrod is russell wilson. this year he had 4 comebacks in the 4th... 12-10 against miami(i wish our defense could hold miami to 10 points and where was russell the first 3 guarters scoring 6 points), atl they won 26-24 but again the defense held atl to 24 points which is 10 below their season average and held atl to 0 4th quarter points, arizona they tied 6-6 where he scored 3 points in regulation and the other 3 in ot. we would implode if tyrod scored 3 points in regulation ne- they won 31-24...defense held brady to 3 points in the 4th quarter. wilson scored 9. but again holding brady to 24 points will give you a shot to win almost every time.
JohnC Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Exactly. As one of the more "vocal" Tyrod Taylor critics, I will actually be okay if they bring him back. It's not like he's horrible at everything. Here's to hoping that, if he stays, he can make the necessary improvements. Go Bills. You make a good point in hoping that he improves. So why not make moves that assure that he will play better. Our OL is adept at run blocking but as pass blockers they are below par. Mills as a pass blocker was a disaster putting the qb in jeopardy shortly after the ball was snapped. Move Glenn to the right side, or move a revitalized Kujo back or bring in another competent tackle. Common sense tells you that improving the pass blocking improves the qb play. Our receiving corps in general was less than mediocre. Goodwin as a receiver belongs on the European track circuit. Watkins who was our best receiver was plagued with injuries all season long. There are some high end receivers in this draft. Get one! Does anyone deny that the Bills couldn't have used a Chris Hogan type of player this past year? TT had some uneven performances this year. There were also some sparkling games such as the last Miami game and the Seattle game, where there was no appreciable difference between Russell Wilson's and TT's performances. (Definitely not saying he is better.) And then there were games in which he struggled and was inconsistent. But part of his struggles were due to the play of the pass blocking and inadequacies of the receivers. The point is if you upgrade the players that are limiting his game then you will be upgrading him also. If there are not any better options at qb then create a situation where your best option is in the best position to succeed.
bigK14094 Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Actually, I think TT wants to stay.....but, he will have plenty offers to move on if the bills don't keep him. Unlikely, says me, he will stay with a renegotiated deal....already did that with the Bills.....and if they opt out, he will go looking to the same money or better elsewhere. rumor mill says Denver, but there are other candidates....Jets, for example, who are in as bad shape as the Bills.....where gino, hackenberg and petty are all ng......and we know Fitz is done in NY.
aristocrat Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Actually, I think TT wants to stay.....but, he will have plenty offers to move on if the bills don't keep him. Unlikely, says me, he will stay with a renegotiated deal....already did that with the Bills.....and if they opt out, he will go looking to the same money or better elsewhere. rumor mill says Denver, but there are other candidates....Jets, for example, who are in as bad shape as the Bills.....where gino, hackenberg and petty are all ng......and we know Fitz is done in NY. i could see den, jets, kansas city
OldNMBillsFan Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) what about the defense being unclutch? the defense has got to keep you in games in order to give tyrod the chance to win. houston's defense yesterday kept them in that game but brock just couldn't score. a big comparison to tyrod is russell wilson. this year he had 4 comebacks in the 4th... 12-10 against miami(i wish our defense could hold miami to 10 points and where was russell the first 3 guarters scoring 6 points), atl they won 26-24 but again the defense held atl to 24 points which is 10 below their season average and held atl to 0 4th quarter points, arizona they tied 6-6 where he scored 3 points in regulation and the other 3 in ot. we would implode if tyrod scored 3 points in regulation ne- they won 31-24...defense held brady to 3 points in the 4th quarter. wilson scored 9. but again holding brady to 24 points will give you a shot to win almost every time. I agree, as i stated previously. The defense was terrible at stopping the other team and giving the ball back to the offense. According to (pro-football-reference)The Bills offense only had 177 drives, tying them for 25 and 26th least amount of drives in the league.They were the 9th most efficient offence in the NFL. Scoring 2.14 points per drive. And they could have been even more efficient if Carpenter didn't suck. Carpenter was the worst in the NFL, he only made 4 of 9 attempts from 40-49 yards out and was 40 of 45 on extra points. Bring those into NFL averages and he makes 3 extra Field goals and 3 more extra points giving the offense an extra 12 points for the season with an average FG kicker, This would turn the 2.14 points per drive into 2.22 points per drive, moving them to 7th in the NFL in points per Drive. Now lets say the Defense can be top 10. The 10th best defense at getting the ball back into the hands of their offense was 193 (three way tie for 10th 11th and 12th, PIT, CAR, LA. ) Using the 2.21 average per drive and they would have scored an extra 35 points this season. They scored 399 points tying them with PIT for 10th and 11th. 399 +12 (For and average FG Kicker)+ 35 (for a top 10 defense) and the offence could have conceivably scored 446 points, or 27.9 points a game, for 3rd highest scoring offense in the NFL. So, after all that, it is my opinion that they need to focus on defense and a FG kicker, this would help the offense score more points. I believe there is still upside to TT. Any marginal improvement would make an even grater impact on the offence scoring points. Then add that a top 10 defense would also allow the opposing offense to score fewer points, and we should have not just a playoff team, but one that could go deep in the playoffs. I would love to see TT improve, but i honestly think that the Bills can win with him. Edited January 15, 2017 by OldNMBillsFan
Gugny Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 You make a good point in hoping that he improves. So why not make moves that assure that he will play better. Our OL is adept at run blocking but as pass blockers they are below par. Mills as a pass blocker was a disaster putting the qb in jeopardy shortly after the ball was snapped. Move Glenn to the right side, or move a revitalized Kujo back or bring in another competent tackle. Common sense tells you that improving the pass blocking improves the qb play. Our receiving corps in general was less than mediocre. Goodwin as a receiver belongs on the European track circuit. Watkins who was our best receiver was plagued with injuries all season long. There are some high end receivers in this draft. Get one! Does anyone deny that the Bills couldn't have used a Chris Hogan type of player this past year? TT had some uneven performances this year. There were also some sparkling games such as the last Miami game and the Seattle game, where there was no appreciable difference between Russell Wilson's and TT's performances. (Definitely not saying he is better.) And then there were games in which he struggled and was inconsistent. But part of his struggles were due to the play of the pass blocking and inadequacies of the receivers. The point is if you upgrade the players that are limiting his game then you will be upgrading him also. If there are not any better options at qb then create a situation where your best option is in the best position to succeed. I actually think the OL did a great job in protecting him. I can't count how many times he held the ball for what seemed like forever. I like our receivers. They were open. He often chose to check down or to run .. or he threw uncatchable passes. But I'm not trashing the guy. I just think he's a bottom tier starter. But, like I said, I'll support him if he stays.
JohnC Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 I actually think the OL did a great job in protecting him. I can't count how many times he held the ball for what seemed like forever. I like our receivers. They were open. He often chose to check down or to run .. or he threw uncatchable passes. But I'm not trashing the guy. I just think he's a bottom tier starter. But, like I said, I'll support him if he stays. With the right support I believe he can be a mid-level starter. Without a doubt he is not a conventional or prototypical style of qb. That's the mistake that people make when evaluating him. The best/fairest way to assess him is to expand the book when considering how he is performing. Because of his style of play is different he will never be a high volume passer. That is not such a bad thing when the running game is so accentuated in our offense. We agree that TT's vision and ability to make the reads and go through his progressions are still rudimentary. But if you improve the pass blocking (not as complimentary as you are) he should do better in that area. I also have a different view of our receiver corps. Goodwin is not a starter caliber receiver. At best, he should be a specialty player. There are many people who have a harsh view of TT. That's fine. Even with that jaundice view of him retaining him for the next two years is not an unreasonable approach to take. You can still bring in a good prospect (maybe Caredale Jones will develop) and allow this team to compete at a wild-card caliber team level. And just maybe TT will surprise all of us (including me) as to what his upside actually is.
Gugny Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 With the right support I believe he can be a mid-level starter. Without a doubt he is not a conventional or prototypical style of qb. That's the mistake that people make when evaluating him. The best/fairest way to assess him is to expand the book when considering how he is performing. Because of his style of play is different he will never be a high volume passer. That is not such a bad thing when the running game is so accentuated in our offense. We agree that TT's vision and ability to make the reads and go through his progressions are still rudimentary. But if you improve the pass blocking (not as complimentary as you are) he should do better in that area. I also have a different view of our receiver corps. Goodwin is not a starter caliber receiver. At best, he should be a specialty player. There are many people who have a harsh view of TT. That's fine. Even with that jaundice view of him retaining him for the next two years is not an unreasonable approach to take. You can still bring in a good prospect (maybe Caredale Jones will develop) and allow this team to compete at a wild-card caliber team level. And just maybe TT will surprise all of us (including me) as to what his upside actually is. I'm with you on the majority of this. I think Goodwin can be decent, but I get the criticism. Sam, Woods and Hunter, I love. I'd rather invest in O line and defense than more WRs. I really thought the O Line as very good, but in today's league, you need better to play with the big boys. I think you and I are pretty close on how we feel about the team.
Big Gun Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) i could see den, jets, kansas city Denver is not going to bench Siemien or 1st rounder Lynch in favor of Tyrod. Maybe a QB competition, maybe, and I wouldn't expect Tyrod to win that. Jets? Who knows what is happening there KC? No way are they benching Smith in favor of Tyrod, it's delusional to think otherwise. SF? is Tyrod really better than Kaep? it's debatable, they're basically the same QB plus Kaeps resume is a whole lot better. Rams? Not benching Goff Houston? No, huge contract by Osweiler, they aren't going to pay him that $$$ to be backup Chicago? Could be, going to draft someone probably Cleveland? see Chicago ^^^^^ Where else is Tyrod going to get interest from if he is gone from here? I see one landing spot maybe, Jets and they may still opt for someone already on their roster. This delusion that Tyrod is going to garner so much attention is laughable. Edited January 15, 2017 by old school
Gugny Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Denver is not going to bench Siemien or 1st rounder Lynch in favor of Tyrod. Maybe a QB competition, maybe, and I wouldn't expect Tyrod to win that. Jets? Who knows what is happening there KC? No way are they benching Smith in favor of Tyrod, it's delusional to think otherwise. SF? is Tyrod really better than Kaep? it's debatable, they're basically the same QB plus Kaeps resume is a whole lot better. Rams? Not benching Goff Houston? No, huge contract by Osweiler, they aren't going to pay him that $$$ to be backup Chicago? Could be, going to draft someone probably Cleveland? see Chicago ^^^^^ Where else is Tyrod going to get interest from if he is gone from here? I see one landing spot maybe, Jets and they may still opt for someone already on their roster. This delusion that Tyrod is going to garner so much attention is laughable. Jets, Browns and Jags are the only teams in the league that would consider Tyrod an upgrade, in my opinion.
JohnC Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Jets, Browns and Jags are the only teams in the league that would consider Tyrod an upgrade, in my opinion. The issue for the teams you list isn't is he better than what they currently got. It's is he the type of qb that they want to go forward with. In my mind the answer would be no. Any team that is interested in him would only be interested in him as a stop gap qb or backup. The same as it is with Buffalo. What is currently the best option for the Bills is also for him. That's what Taylor and his representation and the Bills will find out this offseason.
Nihilarian Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 I'm not sure you're right about Norman. The Panthers let him walk because he's not a great man cover corner - he takes a lot of chances and uses his recovery speed to make plays. Their system doesn't require paying corners top dollar (which amounts are usually reserved for elite man corners). I think they knew they'd be losing a great player. Their problem was not drafting in anticipation having to replace him. McD gets a relatively low amount of the blame here. Dave Gettleman's approach with the Giants and with Carolina is to invest in the front seven, not the backfield. He is right about Norman as the Panthers stated he was a system CB and would fail wherever he went beside Carolina, Then they drafted three CB's in the draft to replace him and they were the ones that fell on their faces. I would think when you let a top talent walk at any position that the team should have an adequate replacement ready to step in and they clearly didn't. Last year the Panthers went from 11th in passing yards given up to 29th and I was questioning why the team wanted to interview McDermott in the first place. To me, this sort of resembles a Rex Ryan type hire only this man has no experience in being an NFL HC, considering the man didn't do so well in his last year with his prior team. I know McDermott will bring 10k times the energy towards his job vs Rex, it's just we don't know if that focus will be effective. Right now I'm in a wait and see mode and am hoping that McDermott hires a knock the socks off OC and keeps Tyrod to maintain continuity with the run game. I'm really not thrilled with the DC hire as Frazier kept getting fired as DC in Cincy, in Minnesota as HC, and in Tampa Bay. The scheme that these guys run seems more dependent on drafting elite players rather than looking for a certain prototype build and coaching them into a system. JMO Whaley has control over the draft and roster so let's hope he drafts some offense in a top quality WR or two and a quality RT.
Big Gun Posted January 15, 2017 Posted January 15, 2017 Jets, Browns and Jags are the only teams in the league that would consider Tyrod an upgrade, in my opinion. Jags aren't dumping Bortles in favor of Tyrod. Romo yes, Cutler maybe, Tyrod no way.
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