BaaadThingsMan Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 I personally think Tyrod has developed as much as he is going to as far as mechanics etc. The real question now.....what can be done on the offensive side of the ball to make him more productive in the passing game (if he says) I believe there are things that can be done in that area when yu consider he played without his TOP receiver for nearly the whole year and woods was in and out of the lineup. The next question I have is......why did Tyrod Taylor all of a sudden find his TE which had been running free in the final games of the season? thats what i'm trying to figure out also. If everyone else saw it, why didn't he? Or did he and was he just unwilling to throw the ball? As a fan watching it's the most frustrating part of his game, right up to the point he escapes the pocket and runs for 15 yards.
Original Byrd Man Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 Serious question: How often does development continue after 6 years in the NFL? Serious answer: Development begins when you commence practicing what you have learned and not before. Would you want a surgeon operating on you with no practical experience.
34-78-83 Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) One of the biggest myths that creates all this division on many NFL football players (TT not withstanding) on internet message boards is: That having access to the all 22 gives you all the ammo for your answers. It doesn't of course. You don't know the blocking scheme, you don't know the pre-snap reads and blitz or coverage adjustments dictated by the scheme, you don't know the post snap progression order of route reading (ex. High to Low, Low to High, Primary receiver, Check down option), you don't know the specific route tree that is used for the scheme in general, and you don't know the injury status of the players participating on either side of the ball (coaching mismatches or guys to avoid). The all 22 gives certainly gives you more than the broadcast (safety positioning, etc.) but it's not the end all be all when the eyes watching it don't know anything about all the details I mentioned above. It's a great tool to have for us fans but also dangerous for making assumptions. Edited January 12, 2017 by 34-78-83
MAJBobby Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) I think it was the other way around, Rex told Roman to get the TE and middle of the field going and Roman did not call the plays. Tyrod was going over the middle more the last 3rd of season, I assume Lynn started calling more plays to that area.The playbook was exapanded in the Offseasn. Plays were called out of the expanded playbook (you know real passing concepts and Recievers still moving that need ball out on time) And it got him fired because the QB couldnt execute. New OC simplified concepts and out offense lost the Slants / Rubs etc and went back to sideline and stop routes because that is what the QB can execute. Then Sammy spoke up (didnt earlier because well was hurt) and finally in two games Clay being used (thrown to) over 10 yards in between the numbers. He was open in that area ALL YEAR. Edited January 12, 2017 by MAJBobby
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) Without saying Tyrod is great or bad... How can we say that Roman is good with regards to a passing game? Traditionally near the bottom in attempts, completions, TDs. Low INT% - and a high sack %. His best passing offense was the year they benched smith for kaep. When smith was benched he had a completion percentage of 70, and had a YPA of 8. Both great traditional numbers.. but he was only averaging 170 YPG (including a shellacking of our buffalo bills). He also had an absurdly high 9.9% sack rate. That was the best Roman had to offer from a passing perspective, and they were 31st in attempts, 23rd in yards, 1st in INTs, and 8th in Net yards per passing attempt. Conventional stats would say that they sucked that year - but they were efficient running the ball. They also didn't turn it over. Yes they had a great defense, but we were supposed to as well under Rex. It's a recipe that only works with a suffocating defense. Edited January 12, 2017 by dneveu
Original Byrd Man Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 If your the QB you run the plays that are called. He does not design the route tree or dictate who the primary targets are.
MAJBobby Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 One of the biggest myths that creates all this division on many NFL football players (TT not withstanding) on internet message boards is: That having access to the all 22 gives you all the ammo for your answers. It doesn't of course. You don't know the blocking scheme, you don't know the pre-snap reads and blitz or coverage adjustments dictated by the scheme, you don't know the post snap progression order of route reading (ex. High to Low, Low to High, Primary receiver, Check down option), you don't know the specific route tree that is used for the scheme in general, and you don't know the injury status of the players participating on either side of the ball (coaching mismatches or guys to avoid). The all 22 gives certainly gives you more than the broadcast (safety positioning, etc.) but it's not the end all be all when the eyes watching it don't know anything about all the details I mentioned above. It's a great tool to have for us fans but also dangerous for making assumptions. If you spent enough years reading watching film you can break an offense down without knowing all that. So some people actually can watch the All 22 and know with a high degree of certainty what is going on.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 If he could throw he would when Brady is curbstomping him. He can't. He stinks.
BaaadThingsMan Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 One of the biggest myths that creates all this division on many NFL football players (TT not withstanding) on internet message boards is: That having access to the all 22 gives you all the ammo for your answers. It doesn't of course. You don't know the blocking scheme, you don't know the pre-snap reads and blitz or coverage adjustments dictated by the scheme, you don't know the post snap progression order of route reading (ex. High to Low, Low to High, Primary receiver, Check down option), you don't know the specific route tree that is used for the scheme in general, and you don't know the injury status of the players participating on either side of the ball (coaching mismatches or guys to avoid). The all 22 gives certainly gives you more than the broadcast (safety positioning, etc.) but it's not the end all be all when the eyes watching it don't know anything about all the details I mentioned above. It's a great tool to have for us fans but also dangerous for making assumptions. do you have any of those answers? Because from the average fan it looks like he can't or doesn't see open receivers quite a bit. This has been commented on at all levels, by amateurs and "pros" alike. I like TT, i'd like to know if this is something that can develop or if they need to move on. At the end of the day I just want the best 11 on each phase to get out there and !@#$ people up!
MAJBobby Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 If your the QB you run the plays that are called. He does not design the route tree or dictate who the primary targets are. And if you are OC do you design an offense you QB cant execute?
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) The playbook was exapanded in the Offseasn. Plays were called out of the expanded playbook (you know real passing concepts and Recievers still moving that need ball out on time) And it got him fired because the QB couldnt execute. New OC simplified concepts and out offense lost the Slants / Rubs etc and went back to sideline and stop routes because that is what the QB can execute. Then Sammy spoke up (didnt earlier because well was hurt) and finally in two games Clay being used (thrown to) over 10 yards in between the numbers. He was open in that area ALL YEAR. Hard to say what roman did in the offseason since he got canned in week 2. Baltimore is a tough e v a l because the line and mccoy played so poorly. The Jets game - was pretty much lost by the defense, but TT did no favors by throwing an ugly pick on 1st down with a chance to take the lead. Edited January 12, 2017 by dneveu
PolishDave Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 One of the biggest myths that creates all this division on many NFL football players (TT not withstanding) on internet message boards is: That having access to the all 22 gives you all the ammo for your answers. It doesn't of course. You don't know the blocking scheme, you don't know the pre-snap reads and blitz or coverage adjustments dictated by the scheme, you don't know the post snap progression order of route reading (ex. High to Low, Low to High, Primary receiver, Check down option), you don't know the specific route tree that is used for the scheme in general, and you don't know the injury status of the players participating on either side of the ball (coaching mismatches or guys to avoid). The all 22 gives certainly gives you more than the broadcast (safety positioning, etc.) but it's not the end all be all when the eyes watching it don't know anything about all the details I mentioned above. It's a great tool to have for us fans but also dangerous for making assumptions. Truly brilliant post! Your point is the one thing that gets overlooked in all these conversations. There isn't one person here who knows what the coaches are telling the QB to do or not to do. We don't get to sit in on practice. None of us know. It is all guessing. Without saying Tyrod is great or bad... How can we say that Roman is good with regards to a passing game? Traditionally near the bottom in attempts, completions, TDs. Low INT% - and a high sack %. His best passing offense was the year they benched smith for kaep. When smith was benched he had a completion percentage of 70, and had a YPA of 8. Both great traditional numbers.. but he was only averaging 170 YPG (including a shellacking of our buffalo bills). He also had an absurdly high 9.9% sack rate. That was the best Roman had to offer from a passing perspective, and they were 31st in attempts, 23rd in yards, 1st in INTs, and 8th in Net yards per passing attempt. Conventional stats would say that they sucked that year - but they were efficient running the ball. They also didn't turn it over. Yes they had a great defense, but we were supposed to as well under Rex. It's a recipe that only works with a suffocating defense. Absolutely correct. Anyone looking at this season objectively can see that this offense was designed to be good at running and to run more often than other teams while neglecting the passing aspect to a large degree. Every single one of Roman's offenses have all been that way even when they went to a Superbowl.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 And if you are OC do you design an offense you QB cant execute? Sounds like something that would get you fired 2 weeks into the season
PolishDave Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 If your the QB you run the plays that are called. He does not design the route tree or dictate who the primary targets are. Yep.
OldTimer1960 Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 Warner had just never been given a chance. He was a first team All Pro his first year playing. Young and Rodgers were simply stuck on the bench behind HOF QBs. None of them were struggling to see open receivers or pull the trigger on passes two years into their starting roles. That wasn't quite true for Steve Young - He played in USFL and was not successful in TB in his first NFL stint. Now, nobody was successful in TB back then, but he was peddled to SF where he became a star. In his 19 games in TB he threw 11 TDs and 21 INTs and completed under 54% of his passes. I imagine that the much better surrounding cast in SF accounts for a lot of his "improvement" vs what he accomplished in Tampa.
MAJBobby Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 Sounds like something that would get you fired 2 weeks into the season Yep. So we now as Bills fans want to keep a QB that needs to have a very specific type of Offense Designed so he can execute and we think that is a long term model for success. Remember what happend whejnwe got excited aboutnthe Last Flawed QB that actually did very well in an Offense designed to hide his limitations? It got exposed and QB got Cut and hurt our Cap for 2 years.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 That wasn't quite true for Steve Young - He played in USFL and was not successful in TB in his first NFL stint. Now, nobody was successful in TB back then, but he was peddled to SF where he became a star. In his 19 games in TB he threw 11 TDs and 21 INTs and completed under 54% of his passes. I imagine that the much better surrounding cast in SF accounts for a lot of his "improvement" vs what he accomplished in Tampa. What about Vick's improvement in philadelphia? He went from a sub 55% passer and 1000 yard rusher to a pretty solid QB under reid.
hondo in seattle Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 Serious question: How often does development continue after 6 years in the NFL? Every QB has a different learning curve. It took Jim Plunkett something like 9 years to become a good NFL QB. Drew Brees took 3 or 4. Both were actually playing. If you're sitting on the bench, like Taylor did for 4 years, you're not getting the experience you really need to grow. But your general point is right. Usually after 6 years, you know what you've got.
Original Byrd Man Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) It didnt for Tebow did it. Sometimes players just cannot internalize changes happens Am i wrong? Thats what i thought. I don't think anyone is claiming Tyrod does not have some deficiencies, but only the stubborn nay sayers ignore the fact that the Bills had the 7th ranked offense last year and Tyrod was a big part of it. Edited January 12, 2017 by Original Byrd Man
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 12, 2017 Posted January 12, 2017 Yep. So we now as Bills fans want to keep a QB that needs to have a very specific type of Offense Designed so he can execute and we think that is a long term model for success. Remember what happend whejnwe got excited aboutnthe Last Flawed QB that actually did very well in an Offense designed to hide his limitations? It got exposed and QB got Cut and hurt our Cap for 2 years. I don't consider 2 years to be "long-term"
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