Maury Ballstein Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 FIFY.......Some of those points scored include 45 hung on the hapless 49ers, the Jets letting us actually think we had a chance by scoring a couple meaningless TD's to get to 31, a late score against the Fins when the game was pretty much over to get to 25 in October, 28 against the Jags who couldn't stop anybody, and 33 on a Browns team that was the worst in the league. The offense wasn't as prolific as all of the "numbers people" want to make it out to be. How about this, how many games did our QB lead us on a game winning drive? How many of those close games did we actually pull out? When we needed to get up and down the field was Tyrod the guy taking care of business out there slinging the rock? How about the answers to those being 0, 0, and no. You want to keep a guy based on that? Or keep it together as a whole based on that? Really? Not me my friend. We will still have Shady, Clay, Watkins, Gilleslee, and a couple other guys mixed with some fresh faces. I'll take my chances with a new OC, QB, and system all day long. Winner winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Winner winner Again, this is a deeply flawed analysis of point scoring. Look at Bills point scoring trends over the past 30 years and come back to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) The Bills didn't make the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 because we drafted EJ 4 years ago everybody. You heard it here first. Even though we can and will win with Taylor at QB. Who was our QB in 2015 and 2016. You say Taylor is awful. You say to start over. We are in year 17 of the bad QB carousel. We are in year 5 after EJ...but thats not where it started. Lets go back further FireChan just because its hysterical how dense you are on this. 1. in 2004 we traded up back into the 1st round to take what was labeled a RAW QB in JP Losman. Bledsoe was older and not very mobile, but Bills stupidly thought they could improve long term by moving on and going young at QB despite just barely missing the playoffs with Bledsoe (who was not the biggest reason we missed the playoffs...hmmmmmm sound familiar). 2. We wasted 3 seasons on JP Loserman, although one was due to a broken leg. (already up to 3 years) 3. We drafted Tentative Edwards in 2007 when JP had yet to prove to be the guy. That led to 2 1/2 years of wasted time on him before an injury in 2009 opened the door for another journeyman scrub in FitzCrapTrick. 4. We are already over 5 years and we are just getting into next chapter wasted on a Vet you seem to think are so easy to bring in, but also coudlnt get the job done. Now we waste 3 1/2 years on FitzCrapTrick before we finally cut him and have to again REACH for a QB in EJ in a weak draft class to start over in 2013. 5. EJ costs us another 2 years and was so bad we had to sit through games with another one of those Vets you say we can just get when a drafted QB busts out in Kyle Orton. 6. I know you are bad at math, so to help keep up to date we are now 10 years into futility after jettisoning the only decent QB we had through these years in Bledsoe for a questionable rookie we reached for. 7. In 2015 a new coaching staff comes in AGAIN, and brings in Taylor, another one of those Vets you think are so easy to find to plug in if a rookie QB busts. You say he is terrible (I don't share your same outlook on him, but since this is about you, we will go with your assessment). Taylor now has led this team for 2 more years putting us at 12 years and still not having a QB that can lead us to the playoffs as you claim. And YOU WANT to get rid of him (our most productive and effective QB since Bledsoe, maybe even more than Bledsoe as our offense scores more than his teams did despite having Moulds, Price, a run game, and Bledsoe) just so we can start over yet again with an unproven and questionable rookie. So you should probably just shut up in regards to disputing the fact that being wrong about a rookie QB can set you back 5 years. Everyone in the NFL knows this...its not even my theory, its matter of fact. And only setting you back 4 to 5 years is the BEST case scenario and it can be much longer than 5 years...see Bills, Browns, Jags, and many other teams over the course of history who have seen being wrong with QB's last for decade or longer of futility. Edited January 11, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blargo Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Because of the run game. Shady is a beast and no one will deny Tyrod's running ability. The offensive line did very well with run blocking as well. The offense succeeded in spite of Tyrod's very average play, not because of it. That is not totally true. Tyrod is not a turnover machine. How many Int's and fumbles did you shake you head and say should not have made that throw? Most of the ints were great plays by DB's. Not having many turnovers keeps your team the game and if you have a great D changes field position. Run game was awesome this year and Tyrod does get some credit for that as do the other backs, McCoy and TD Mike in particular, but do not exclude Felton and the O-Line. If we move on from Tyrod and do not make a huge trade to get some functional QB expect a season worth of games like the last Jets game, regardless of any improvement in D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 So your theory is to never draft one because we have failed in the past? That is not totally true. Tyrod is not a turnover machine. How many Int's and fumbles did you shake you head and say should not have made that throw? Most of the ints were great plays by DB's. Not having many turnovers keeps your team the game and if you have a great D changes field position. Run game was awesome this year and Tyrod does get some credit for that as do the other backs, McCoy and TD Mike in particular, but do not exclude Felton and the O-Line. If we move on from Tyrod and do not make a huge trade to get some functional QB expect a season worth of games like the last Jets game, regardless of any improvement in D. So drafting a rookie to start is out of the occasion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blargo Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 So your theory is to never draft one because we have failed in the past? No his theory is not to dump a starter that is average and not a turnover machine. Tyrod's performance should show that we still need a QB, but do not get rid of what you have for the unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I agree that they should draft a QB early - preferably in round one if they believe in the guy!. But tanking is not a good strategy. It almost never is. There are no FA or realistic trade alternatives right now. Re my earlier post, it was not about the offense, but your use of raw points to excuse a horrible defense. Again i have said over snd over again in most of my posts the defense needs to get better. However the QB does as well and because of that my priority goes to QB becsuse without one log term success is a pipe dream. And i dont need to hitch my wagon to one that isnt good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 So your theory is to never draft one because we have failed in the past? So drafting a rookie to start is out of the occasion? Personally, I'd like us to keep Taylor (or if we can get one of the proven improvements, that'll work too), and then use a mid round pick on a developmental guy, if we don't have another glaring need then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flomoe Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 All of the same alternatives that have already been mentioned on this board. Tyrod is what he is. He can't read a defense, he struggles with his accuracy between 5-20 yards, he misses/does not see wide open receivers, that's him. That's who he has been for two years. The apologists that have come out of the woodwork for this guy are amazing. He is not a franchise QB. He will never be able to put a game on his arm and lead you to victory. He might get lucky and do it with his legs from time to time, but he is not going to carry us otherwise. All of what you said and the fact that he contributed to the number of injuries to the WR's, RB's and TE's. His poor passing and not throwing the receiver open, rather throwing when they were standing still, nearly killed off anyone that caught the ball on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) So your theory is to never draft one because we have failed in the past? So drafting a rookie to start is out of the occasion? Please show me where I said that. Never have I said not to draft a QB. What I have said is that our Offense and scoring were NOT why we missed the playoffs. We have and can win with this offense and Taylor, who has a winning record as the starting QB for the Bills despite all the injuries and bad coaching the last 2 years that made our defense atrocious. We can win now, and be good, if our D improves...and with Marcell, Shaq, and Rags here for the whole season next year paired with a new HC better suited for this defense and new additions in FA and Draft to help fill the holes in the secondary, we can easily see a big improvement on that side of the ball. If we had a dependable defense this year, we would have been in the playoffs, same with last year. The last time we had a solid QB in Bledsoe and a roster capable of competing, we moved on for a rookie and we now sit at 12 years and counting of futility. So, I am not saying we can't draft a QB, but to cut Taylor to start a rookie from a questionable QB draft class is a BIG gamble and one we have been losing on for over a decade. Keep Taylor and draft a guy...but don't cut Taylor and force us to reach for a QB in this draft to bank our next 5 years on. Edited January 11, 2017 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) no one chooses to be 31st in passing. you can make the most of what you have and end up there- but no one does that by choice. Yes. To support your point NoSaint, sites like Football Outsiders and CHFF look at "negative passing plays" - sacks or ints as the outcome of passing play. The Bills are near the bottom, at >10% NPP. This is certainly not planned. By design, the Bills are not trying to be a top passing team, but d*mn straight, no one chooses to be at the bottom. Edited January 11, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Please show me where I said that. Never have I said not to draft a QB. What I have said is that our Offense and scoring were NOT why we missed the playoffs. We have and can win with this offense and Taylor, who has a winning record as the starting QB for the Bills despite all the injuries and bad coaching the last 2 years that made our defense atrocious. We can win now, and be good, if our D improves...and with Marcell, Shaq, and Rags here for the whole season next year paired with a new HC better suited for this defense and new additions in FA and Draft to help fill the holes in the secondary, we can easily see a big improvement on that side of the ball. If we had a dependable defense this year, we would have been in the playoffs, same with last year. The last time we had a solid QB in Bledsoe, we moved on for a rookie and we now sit at 12 years and counting of futility. So, I am not saying we can't draft a QB, but to cut Taylor to start a rookie from a questionable QB draft class is a BIG gamble and one we have been losing on for over a decade. Keep Taylor and draft a guy...but don't cut Taylor and force us to reach for a QB in this draft to bank our next 5 years on. I think what you mean to say is that it's wise to hedge against risk. And it is in fact wise to do so. Edited January 11, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Cool. Expect the offense to regress, running game to regress and turnovers to increase unless they some how land Brees or Romo. Would you rather be 8-8 or 7-9 for the life of Tyrod's contract? no I wouldn't. Tyrod is NOT going to win you games as a passer. He's not. There is no other way for me to explain it in simpler terms. If we have to "bottom out" to find a REAL QB then so be it. Or maybe we get fortunate in the draft this year. Or maybe trade or FA lands us a capable starter. Either way, Tyrod is NOT and NEVER WILL BE the type of QB who will win you a game throwing the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I think what you mean to say is that it's wise to hedge risk. And it is in fact wise to do so. Yes sir. Taylor is far from this teams biggest problem. He isnt the end all be all, but the ONLY way you win games in the NFL is to score points, and more points than the other team. We were pretty good at scoring points, and pretty bad at keeping the other team from scoring more points. But everyone is fixated on Taylor as if he is the reason. 100 times easier to fix the D which still has talent on it and a lot of the personnel from when it was pretty good to go with the young talent coming back full strength like Shaq and Rags. Biggest issue on the D was the terrible scheme that broke it down. Add in a healthy Sammy to the offense, healthy OL, and whatever talent we add in the draft and FA and this team could be pretty dam good next year. Want to take a QB in the 2nd or 3rd to hedge bets, by all means do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Good post. Did you watch the atrocious defense or no? Fix the defense to at least average/slightly above average, keep Tyrod and this team wins more games and is a playoff contender. Easy. Hopefully this is the plan with McDermott...I can see Taylor restructuring his deal if the new staff wants to keep him......Best scenario to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Would you rather be 8-8 or 7-9 for the life of Tyrod's contract? no I wouldn't. Tyrod is NOT going to win you games as a passer. He's not. There is no other way for me to explain it in simpler terms. If we have to "bottom out" to find a REAL QB then so be it. Or maybe we get fortunate in the draft this year. Or maybe trade or FA lands us a capable starter. Either way, Tyrod is NOT and NEVER WILL BE the type of QB who will win you a game throwing the football. Except Taylor has a winning record as the Bills QB, 3 of the losses the last 2 years were games EJ started. Taylor also put enough points on the board for this team to win and watched the D fail. We also lost Sammy for more than half the season and he played hurt in just about every other game. We also lost Wood, Woods, Clay, McCoy, Glenn, etc for several games each. We also had a terrible defense. We also lost our top 2 draft picks before the season started on defense. We also didn't have Marcell for half the season. Taylor also played hurt for several games last year and parts of this year. We have also had 2 OC's in 2 years. Yet despite ALL of that, the kid has a winning record for the Bills, led one of the highest scoring offenses in the League, and his lethal threat of running has made us the potent rushing attack in the NFL as not only does he get yards, but his thread of running opens up the lanes for our RB's because they have to defend both the QB and HB on run plays. So no offense, but you are wrong on your assessment that Taylor can only lead us to 7 or 8 wins because he not only has already bested that, he has done so with severe things working against him and this team that I mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Good post. Did you watch the atrocious defense or no? Fix the defense to at least average/slightly above average, keep Tyrod and this team wins more games and is a playoff contender. Easy. I disagree. We will never make the playoffs with Tyrod at QB unless we somehow can reincarnate the 2000 Ravens. You do realize that the offense's 3 and outs contributed mightily to a tired defense getting repeatedly gashed at times? Who was the leader of that 3 and out machine when you needed a couple of 1st downs to get your defense a breather? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 How long before we have posts expressing worry that no deal has been announced yet, which obviously means McDermott is having 2nd thoughts and the whole thing is going to come crashing down? By the way it has now been "reported" per Schefter's twitter that Vance Joseph will coach the Broncos and McCoy will be his OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY315 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 28m28 minutes ago #Bills are closing in on Sean McDermott, #Broncos finalizing on Vance Joseph… Two openings should be closed today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 McCoy might want to go to Denver rather than Buffalo so he gets a chance to "stick it" to the Chargers twice a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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