McDermott New HC per JLaCan - new jw tweets re: Whaley & TT

[dave mcbride]

 

The fact that the defense was AVG in scoring defense and not the tire fire you make it out to be

Seriously, start looking at good sites like Football Outsiders. It'll sharpen your analytical takes. Not trying to be a jerk, btw.

Edited January 11, 2017 by dave mcbride

[BuffaloHokie13]

It's the Denver Broncos. They won a Super Bowl just last season. They're an elite organization. If you think it isn't a no brainer between us and them - you're delusional.

 

And this year they're watching from the couch, same as us. I'm delusional because I think the Offensive Coordinator might want to go to the team with a better offense?

 

Denver:

27th Ranked Offense (5169 Yards)

22nd Ranked Scoring Offense (333 Points)

28th Ranked DVOA Offense (-12.9%)

Question Mark at QB, Drafting 20th

 

Buffalo:

16th Ranked Offense (5666 Yards)

10th Ranked Scoring Offense (399 Points)

10th Ranked DVOA Offense (+9.6%)

Question Mark at QB, Drafting 10th

[Alphadawg7]

My point was, we have someone who is roughly middle of the pack (use whatever metrics), in Tyrod. Yes he very much could improve in the 2 minute drill, and hey maybe that can happen with a new OC, who knows. But I feel to improve from Tyrod it's a lot tougher, than it is to improve our defense, which most people seem to see as underperforming for their talent level. Improving either the QB position, or the defense, gets us into the playoffs this last season. Unless there's a clear improvement available, getting rid of Tyrod to push some draft pick or Cardale is extremely risky.

 

Yes, and like I said in the Watson thread, if you we do that and are wrong and whiff on that draft pick QB, we can set the organization back 5 years. FireChan struggles with the math, but its pretty simple. 2 years at least are going to be invested in the draft pick, and could be 3 depending on how bad or slow he proves to be the wrong guy. Then you have to start over with likely another young QB because good Veteran QB's are not regularly available. That young QB whether someone like Taylor who has not yet played but been in the NFL behind someone else or another rookie is going to need a solid 2 seasons to start to really hit their potential most likely. Sure, there is a rare exception like Dak and Wilson, but they also have fantastic rosters around them for that to happen. And all of this assumes that the next guy turns out to be the right guy, because if not, rinse and repeat and the cycle just continues just like it has the last 17 years.

 

This team can win, and will win, with Taylor at QB. He was NOT the reason we missed the playoffs. Scoring was not why we didn't get in. Unless we get an upgrade like some of the rumors of Brees or Cousins, then moving on from him to take on a rookie in a skeptical QB draft class is a massive gamble with a roster that is built to win now. Think about this:

 

1. Challenged already under what most the board calls awful coaching that ruined a dominant defense.

2. 2 OC's in 2 years.

3. Terrible string of injuries to our most critical players (and suspension) on both sides of the ball.

4. An atrocious defensive scheme that cost us many many games.

5. Bad luck in 2 games from blown referee calls that directly impacted the result of the game in Seattle this year and Giants last year.

6. We have a winning record with Tyrod Taylor at QB. 2 losses last year and 1 this year were played by EJ.

7. We lost our top 2 draft picks before the start of the season, both on D.

 

Getting a healthy Shaq and Rags back, Marcell the whole season, and likely adding some help at Safety and DB in FA/Draft to go along with a new HC that is better suited for this teams personnel on defense can easily make a huge improvement to the defensive unit. That alone combined with the scoring we had this year (which could and should improve with a healthy Sammy and hopefully another WR from the draft/FA) makes this team pretty good and not only a playoff contender but dangerous in the playoffs where defense and running the ball have a lot of value.

 

So unless we get one of these rumored QB's (which I am skeptical we will), starting over with a rookie at QB just doesnt make sense to me. Its a massive gamble, especially in a draft where the QB prospects are a bit under whelming.

 

Again, looks like all the NNN stopped watching games last season and just looks at stat lines now. Our offense scored often against bad teams and then fell apart at almost every opportunity when games were actually on the line. This is pretty much completely on the QB. Keeping TT does us no great favors, we would still be returning the same O-line and RBs

 

Actually, what you just said is factually not true.

[H2o]

100%.

 

If Bree's or Rivers is truly an option then by all means go for it.

 

But the defense was atrocious and the offense was tops 10th in scoring. What the !@#$ am I missing?

 

Fix the defense. Leave the offense alone. Why is this so complicated?

 

Like Cardale Jones?

FIFY.......Some of those points scored include 45 hung on the hapless 49ers, the Jets letting us actually think we had a chance by scoring a couple meaningless TD's to get to 31, a late score against the Fins when the game was pretty much over to get to 25 in October, 28 against the Jags who couldn't stop anybody, and 33 on a Browns team that was the worst in the league. The offense wasn't as prolific as all of the "numbers people" want to make it out to be. How about this, how many games did our QB lead us on a game winning drive? How many of those close games did we actually pull out? When we needed to get up and down the field was Tyrod the guy taking care of business out there slinging the rock? How about the answers to those being 0, 0, and no. You want to keep a guy based on that? Or keep it together as a whole based on that? Really? Not me my friend. We will still have Shady, Clay, Watkins, Gilleslee, and a couple other guys mixed with some fresh faces. I'll take my chances with a new OC, QB, and system all day long.

[moshermw]

He failed?

 

A reverse to Reggie bush and a missed 46 yard field goal was the failure. Nice try though.

Which would have been just a 36 yard FG if TT just kneeled instead of the two 5 yd loss plays that were called by some mongoloid.

 

Most frustrating 5 minutes of football watching in the last 5 years. Just awful.

 

Yes, and like I said in the Watson thread, if you we do that and are wrong and whiff on that draft pick QB, we can set the organization back 5 years. FireChan struggles with the math, but its pretty simple. 2 years at least are going to be invested in the draft pick, and could be 3 depending on how bad or slow he proves to be the wrong guy. Then you have to start over with likely another young QB because good Veteran QB's are not regularly available. That young QB whether someone like Taylor who has not yet played but been in the NFL behind someone else or another rookie is going to need a solid 2 seasons to start to really hit their potential most likely. Sure, there is a rare exception like Dak and Wilson, but they also have fantastic rosters around them for that to happen. And all of this assumes that the next guy turns out to be the right guy, because if not, rinse and repeat and the cycle just continues just like it has the last 17 years.

 

This team can win, and will win, with Taylor at QB. He was NOT the reason we missed the playoffs. Scoring was not why we didn't get in. Unless we get an upgrade like some of the rumors of Brees or Cousins, then moving on from him to take on a rookie in a skeptical QB draft class is a massive gamble with a roster that is built to win now. Think about this:

 

1. Challenged already under what most the board calls awful coaching that ruined a dominant defense.

2. 2 OC's in 2 years.

3. Terrible string of injuries to our most critical players (and suspension) on both sides of the ball.

4. An atrocious defensive scheme that cost us many many games.

5. Bad luck in 2 games from blown referee calls that directly impacted the result of the game in Seattle this year and Giants last year.

6. We have a winning record with Tyrod Taylor at QB. 2 losses last year and 1 this year were played by EJ.

7. We lost our top 2 draft picks before the start of the season, both on D.

 

Getting a healthy Shaq and Rags back, Marcell the whole season, and likely adding some help at Safety and DB in FA/Draft to go along with a new HC that is better suited for this teams personnel on defense can easily make a huge improvement to the defensive unit. That alone combined with the scoring we had this year (which could and should improve with a healthy Sammy and hopefully another WR from the draft/FA) makes this team pretty good and not only a playoff contender but dangerous in the playoffs where defense and running the ball have a lot of value.

 

So unless we get one of these rumored QB's (which I am skeptical we will), starting over with a rookie at QB just doesnt make sense to me. Its a massive gamble, especially in a draft where the QB prospects are a bit under whelming.

 

Actually, what you just said is factually not true.

This is an outstanding post.

[FireChan]

 

Yes, and like I said in the Watson thread, if you we do that and are wrong and whiff on that draft pick QB, we can set the organization back 5 years. FireChan struggles with the math, but its pretty simple. 2 years at least are going to be invested in the draft pick, and could be 3 depending on how bad or slow he proves to be the wrong guy. Then you have to start over with likely another young QB because good Veteran QB's are not regularly available. That young QB whether someone like Taylor who has not yet played but been in the NFL behind someone else or another rookie is going to need a solid 2 seasons to start to really hit their potential most likely. Sure, there is a rare exception like Dak and Wilson, but they also have fantastic rosters around them for that to happen. And all of this assumes that the next guy turns out to be the right guy, because if not, rinse and repeat and the cycle just continues just like it has the last 17 years.

 

This team can win, and will win, with Taylor at QB. He was NOT the reason we missed the playoffs. Scoring was not why we didn't get in. Unless we get an upgrade like some of the rumors of Brees or Cousins, then moving on from him to take on a rookie in a skeptical QB draft class is a massive gamble with a roster that is built to win now. Think about this:

 

1. Challenged already under what most the board calls awful coaching that ruined a dominant defense.

2. 2 OC's in 2 years.

3. Terrible string of injuries to our most critical players (and suspension) on both sides of the ball.

4. An atrocious defensive scheme that cost us many many games.

5. Bad luck in 2 games from blown referee calls that directly impacted the result of the game in Seattle this year and Giants last year.

6. We have a winning record with Tyrod Taylor at QB. 2 losses last year and 1 this year were played by EJ.

7. We lost our top 2 draft picks before the start of the season, both on D.

 

Getting a healthy Shaq and Rags back, Marcell the whole season, and likely adding some help at Safety and DB in FA/Draft to go along with a new HC that is better suited for this teams personnel on defense can easily make a huge improvement to the defensive unit. That alone combined with the scoring we had this year (which could and should improve with a healthy Sammy and hopefully another WR from the draft/FA) makes this team pretty good and not only a playoff contender but dangerous in the playoffs where defense and running the ball have a lot of value.

 

So unless we get one of these rumored QB's (which I am skeptical we will), starting over with a rookie at QB just doesnt make sense to me. Its a massive gamble, especially in a draft where the QB prospects are a bit under whelming.

 

Actually, what you just said is factually not true.

The Bills didn't make the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 because we drafted EJ 4 years ago everybody. You heard it here first. Even though we can and will win with Taylor at QB. Who was our QB in 2015 and 2016.

Edited January 11, 2017 by FireChan

[dave mcbride]

FIFY.......Some of those points scored include 45 hung on the hapless 49ers, the Jets letting us actually think we had a chance by scoring a couple meaningless TD's to get to 31, a late score against the Fins when the game was pretty much over to get to 25 in October, 28 against the Jags who couldn't stop anybody, and 33 on a Browns team that was the worst in the league. The offense wasn't as prolific as all of the "numbers people" want to make it out to be. How about this, how many games did our QB lead us on a game winning drive? How many of those close games did we actually pull out? When we needed to get up and down the field was Tyrod the guy taking care of business out there slinging the rock? How about the answers to those being 0, 0, and no. You want to keep a guy based on that? Or keep it together as a whole based on that? Really? Not me my friend. We will still have Shady, Clay, Watkins, Gilleslee, and a couple other guys mixed with some fresh faces. I'll take my chances with a new OC, QB, and system all day long.

7th going into the final week, not 10th. Don't forget that. They didn't score fewer than 16 points in any game this season save for the first one. I refuse to count the last one given who the QB was.

 

I just went through every Bills season going back to 1988 (when I stopped looking), and 2017 WAS THE ONLY SEASON in which the team scored at least 16 points in all games except for one -- and indeed all games except for two. And it's not as if they faced a creampuff defensive schedule. According to FO, they faced the 12th hardest defensive schedule in the league in 2017.

Edited January 11, 2017 by dave mcbride

[Wayne Arnold]

 

Ah yes, stats in a vacuum.

 

Way to miss the point, dorkula.

[H2o]

Who's the alternative?

All of the same alternatives that have already been mentioned on this board. Tyrod is what he is. He can't read a defense, he struggles with his accuracy between 5-20 yards, he misses/does not see wide open receivers, that's him. That's who he has been for two years. The apologists that have come out of the woodwork for this guy are amazing. He is not a franchise QB. He will never be able to put a game on his arm and lead you to victory. He might get lucky and do it with his legs from time to time, but he is not going to carry us otherwise.

[Nihilarian]

@tompelissero

One ripple effect if #Rams hire Sean McVay: add the #Redskins to the list of teams that could be in the mix for Mike McCoy as OC.

That would suck!

 

If they know who they want and can get McCoy as OC then do it asap! The guy should make whomever the QB is better. JMO.

[Harryhood280]

You know, my uncle and I have watched just about every bills game together since the 90s, suffering through middling quarterback after middling quarterback. We both were very high on Taylor after the 2015 season. This year, we, as with everyone else, expected him to progress.

 

More times than I can remember, especially in the second half of the season, the bills would get the ball in the fourth quarter with a chance to either get back in the game or take the lead. Some games, they got 2-3 such chances late. Every time this scenario presented itself, we would say "here's Tyrod's shot to earn his contract option." So many times, so many opportunities he had to win the game or at least keep them in the game with a late scoring drive. Almost everytime, the offense would stall, and his poor passes or poor decision making were the primary reason.

 

I still like Tyrod, and think he's the best QB we've had in 15 years. Still, though, as the season went on I knew he wasn't the long term answer. Barring a drastic improvement, both in terms of his physical and mental abilities as well as coaching, he will never be anything but a game manager.

[yungmack]

 

 

My eyeball test put the Bills around 25th to 27th defense in the NFL..........and I believe that's about where DVOA put them.

 

They weren't in the middle, which is where 19th would rank them.

 

It's a joke that people still lean on the Aaron Williams loss as a crutch. They missed him but not enough to prevent them from being a bad defense.

 

Like I said......Fitz absolutely scalded Aaron Williams lead D and the Aaron Williams lead Bills D had a maddening amount of trouble stopping a very poor Rams offense in LA and Ajayi had 87 yards on 8 carries in the second quarter before Williams got hurt in Miami.

 

The offensive opponents early in the season were quite feeble.

For the sake of argument, let's say that losing AW was the key to the D collapse. Seems to me that's an even worse indictment of the Ryan D mess if the success of the scheme depended on a single player. Good God Almighty.

[dave mcbride]

You know, my uncle and I have watched just about every bills game together since the 90s, suffering through middling quarterback after middling quarterback. We both were very high on Taylor after the 2015 season. This year, we, as with everyone else, expected him to progress.

 

More times than I can remember, especially in the second half of the season, the bills would get the ball in the fourth quarter with a chance to either get back in the game or take the lead. Some games, they got 2-3 such chances late. Every time this scenario presented itself, we would say "here's Tyrod's shot to earn his contract option." So many times, so many opportunities he had to win the game or at least keep them in the game with a late scoring drive. Almost everytime, the offense would stall, and his poor passes or poor decision making were the primary reason.

 

I still like Tyrod, and think he's the best QB we've had in 15 years. Still, though, as the season went on I knew he wasn't the long term answer. Barring a drastic improvement, both in terms of his physical and mental abilities as well as coaching, he will never be anything but a game manager.

See above. The Bills had their most solidly consistent point production season arguably in franchise history (or at least back to 1988). The offense was not the problem.

[MAJBobby]

All of the same alternatives that have already been mentioned on this board. Tyrod is what he is. He can't read a defense, he struggles with his accuracy between 5-20 yards, he misses/does not see wide open receivers, that's him. That's who he has been for two years. The apologists that have come out of the woodwork for this guy are amazing. He is not a franchise QB. He will never be able to put a game on his arm and lead you to victory. He might get lucky and do it with his legs from time to time, but he is not going to carry us otherwise.

Yeah i stopped answering this alternative stuff. Because it just a juvenile emoji to your mentioned alternative

See above. The Bills had their most solidly consistent point production season arguably in franchise history (or at least back to 1988). The offense was not the problem.

the QB is though

 

I dont need an entire unit to be bad to point at an issue in that said unit

Edited January 11, 2017 by MAJBobby

[H2o]

See above. The Bills had their most solidly consistent point production season arguably in franchise history (or at least back to 1988). The offense was not the problem.

Wrong, Tyrod was a problem for the same reasons I just outlined above.

 

Tyrod is what he is. He can't read a defense, he struggles with his accuracy between 5-20 yards, he misses/does not see wide open receivers, that's him. That's who he has been for two years.

[dave mcbride]

Yeah i stopped answering this alternative stuff. Because it just a juvenile emoji to your mentioned alternative

the QB is though

Seriously, check out FO (see my post on the previous page to you). He's hardly perfect, but factor in the Bills schedule. They played a fairly tough defensive schedule and a creampuff offensive schedule. That stuff makes a huge difference.

[dave mcbride]

FIFY.......Some of those points scored include 45 hung on the hapless 49ers, the Jets letting us actually think we had a chance by scoring a couple meaningless TD's to get to 31, a late score against the Fins when the game was pretty much over to get to 25 in October, 28 against the Jags who couldn't stop anybody, and 33 on a Browns team that was the worst in the league. The offense wasn't as prolific as all of the "numbers people" want to make it out to be. How about this, how many games did our QB lead us on a game winning drive? How many of those close games did we actually pull out? When we needed to get up and down the field was Tyrod the guy taking care of business out there slinging the rock? How about the answers to those being 0, 0, and no. You want to keep a guy based on that? Or keep it together as a whole based on that? Really? Not me my friend. We will still have Shady, Clay, Watkins, Gilleslee, and a couple other guys mixed with some fresh faces. I'll take my chances with a new OC, QB, and system all day long.

[/quote/]

 

Winner winner !

 

That's false about the Jets game. They were up 24-20 at one point and then scored one more to put them within 6 with roughly 2 minutes to go. They failed on the onside kick, of course, but let's also accept that onside kicks work about 20 percent of the time.

Edited January 11, 2017 by dave mcbride

[Harryhood280]

See above. The Bills had their most solidly consistent point production season arguably in franchise history (or at least back to 1988). The offense was not the problem.

 

Because of the run game. Shady is a beast and no one will deny Tyrod's running ability. The offensive line did very well with run blocking as well. The offense succeeded in spite of Tyrod's very average play, not because of it. Edited January 11, 2017 by Harryhood280

[MAJBobby]

Seriously, check out FO (see my post on the previous page to you). He's hardly perfect, but factor in the Bills schedule. They played a fairly tough defensive schedule and a creampuff offensive schedule. That stuff makes a huge difference.

I get it. Sorry though inam not writing off bad play because the unit as a hole played well.

 

Tyrod Taylor is a problem and should be upgraded

Cool.

 

Expect the offense to regress, running game to regress and turnovers to increase unless they some how land Brees or Romo.

Proof?

[dave mcbride]

I get it. Sorry though inam not writing off bad play because the unit as a hole played well.

 

Tyrod Taylor is a problem and should be upgraded

I agree that they should draft a QB early - preferably in round one if they believe in the guy!. But tanking is not a good strategy. It almost never is. There are no FA or realistic trade alternatives right now.

 

Re my earlier post, it was not about the offense, but your use of raw points to excuse a horrible defense.

Edited January 11, 2017 by dave mcbride