GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 I hope this is the case...not a fan. Like how he blocks, but he just never steps up and also always dinged up himself. Plus that puts more emphasis on taking Williams or Davis at 10 which I think is the best choice for us. As I said yesterday I am on board with a receiver or corner at #10 if Watson is gone (which if he is will push at least one of the top two WRs to us I think and one of the CBs I think would be there anyway).
KOKBILLS Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 No Kizer? I am not a fan but Matt Miller has him as at either 16 or 17 on his big board (MT is the other) and they are the 2 highest QBs on his board. He is a draft guy that I like quite a bit. Kizer is all potential...Not a lot more right now... He's no where near ready IMHO...But...He has all the physical tools...He can dazzle at times...But if you're looking for a plug-and-play guy...Oh boy...Good luck with that...
MAJBobby Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Kizer is all potential...Not a lot more right now... He's no where near ready IMHO...But...He has all the physical tools...He can dazzle at times...But if you're looking for a plug-and-play guy...Oh boy...Good luck with that... yep. Ifnyou draft him you are gettin about a year project. Thats why i said he really should stay in school Say we keep TT then by all means Draft me Kizer in round two. But if TT is gone that first year with Kizer could get ugly and stunt development Edited January 11, 2017 by MAJBobby
KOKBILLS Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 yep. Ifnyou draft him you are gettin about a year project. Thats why i said he really should stay in school Say we keep TT then by all means Draft me Kizer in round two. But if TT is gone that first year with Kizer could get ugly and stunt development Agreed... And I don't know...Maybe there will be some kind of shocker in the next Month...But it seems to me that the chances of TT being back are just about 0-1%...They seem to be moving on...
JohnC Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Knowing Cleveland they will probably trade that #1 overall for more picks and perhaps trade back up for a QB. Sadly, If Whaley is the GM I see the team drafting a DB in either a CB or Safety and although the team needs upgrades on defense I'd rather go offense in WR, RT first. I disagree with you that Cleveland will trade their top pick for the simple reason that they will be in position to select from a small collection of premier defensive players. Cleveland already has a boatload of picks and now it is time that those picks get turned into actual players. I strenuously disagree with many smart members on this board who advocate selecting a high quality DB to fill a major need, especially at safety. In the grand scheme of things it will have a negligible impact whereas getting a good qb prospect on the roster, even if the player doesn't immediately play, can have an immense impact on the franchise. Those ardent fans who advocate for the selection of a DB in the first round must then surely be comfortable with the Jauron/Levy drafting of Whitner with their first round pick. Because it is akin to doing something just as wasteful and inconsequential. How does one get away from this perpetual cycle of futility? Simple: Do things differently! This patchwork mentality imbued in the front office and fandom has allowed this bedraggled franchise to remain bedraggled. Using the first round pick on a qb gives you the best chance to get a better prospect. That doesn't mean that you can't use your other picks and free agency to address the long list of needs that exists.
dave mcbride Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 I disagree with you that Cleveland will trade their top pick for the simple reason that they will be in position to select from a small collection of premier defensive players. Cleveland already has a boatload of picks and now it is time that those picks get turned into actual players. I strenuously disagree with many smart members on this board who advocate selecting a high quality DB to fill a major need, especially at safety. In the grand scheme of things it will have a negligible impact whereas getting a good qb prospect on the roster, even if the player doesn't immediately play, can have an immense impact on the franchise. Those ardent fans who advocate for the selection of a DB in the first round must then surely be comfortable with the Jauron/Levy drafting of Whitner with their first round pick. Because it is akin to doing something just as wasteful and inconsequential. How does one get away from this perpetual cycle of futility? Simple: Do things differently! This patchwork mentality imbued in the front office and fandom has allowed this bedraggled franchise to remain bedraggled. Using the first round pick on a qb gives you the best chance to get a better prospect. That doesn't mean that you can't use your other picks and free agency to address the long list of needs that exists. I sincerely believe that this team is drafting a qb early.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) I sincerely believe that this team is drafting a qb early. I think its certain they take a QB, but it wont be at #1 overall if they stay there. If they do, the whole FO should be immediately fired. Garrett and Allen are light years better prospects than any QB in this draft, its not even close. There isnt a single QB even listed in the top 10 players in this draft. You don't gamble on the first pick, especially when you can possibly get the QB you covet at #12. I honestly wouldn't even take a QB at 12, I would take one at the top of the 2nd if I were Cleveland. They can get 2 elite prospects at 1 and 12, then grab a QB with first pick in the 2nd round that may be the one they prefer anyway or at the very least grades out similar to what ever QB's have gone already. Edited January 11, 2017 by Alphadawg7
MAJBobby Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Yeah could be Garrett Another top end Prospect Kizer As their top 3 picks
Reed83HOF Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Gonna need to get alot higher than 10 after his second top end National Championship Game showing You know what you make this post good. If you actually listed ALL these Holes lol Easy buddy I have mentioned them in other parts of this thread... Also everyone is very reactionary to the NC game (he played well, especially in the 2nd half). He has good numbers, but they did run 99 plays. Context is important. You need to look at the entire body of work. It doesn''t entirely matter what Alabama's D is like; they are different in the NFL. But I will again without much explanation. Top 3 things to look at: 1.) Accuracy (Ball Placement as well) - his overall accuracy is sketchy at the goal line - some throws sail or are misfired. Ball placement does not place the ball in the best position for the WRs often enough. His WRs mask this weakness by making great catches. You saw this in the title game in the 4th when Williams made a great catch on a bad throw. He can however, like TT, make a great deep throw and make a great play with his arm. You have to be able to put the ball where it needs to go. This is the top trait you must have IMO. 2.) Poise in the pocket - Most running QBs have this issue. The run too damn often. Steve Young didn't become great until he learned to stay in the pocket. Watson, like TT, falsely senses pressure at times and takes off running. There are times were only 3-4 players rush and he takes off; all he has to do is step up or slide in the pocket. Can be developed, but it is tough to rework what has worked well his entire playing career to date. 3.) Decision Making (correct reads, know when to run vs throw & throw people open) - They run a lot of plays that emphasize quick and somewhat easy throws. He doesn't see and respond well to the intermediate and deep plays. This is where picks come in, he tends to either try to force the ball or tucks and runs when they guy he wants to throw to is covered. I don't know this, but you have to have the sense that when a pick is throw he is able to understand why and learn from it. It is hard to get a good feel for this trait without being a coach in the room with him. Next top 2 traits: 1.) Mobility - Yeah he does, but he needs to learn to slide and not take hits.... 2.) Arm strength - Doesn't appear to be an issue... He is a winner and comes up big in big games. You can't knock that. I am not saying Watson won't develop; but there is too much of a bust potential for me to feel comfortable trading up for him; and you will give up quite a bit to move ahead of SF, Chi or NYJ for that opportunity. Depending on who is there are #10 you could have: 1.) a generational player in Adams/Hooker that also fills a hole, 2.) Mike Williams with Sammy clay and Shady? fills a hole and a huge need and gives your offense 3) Ruben Foster - this might be an enourmous need with McDermott These talents are better for the overall roster at this point than taking a flier on Watson. Watch a little film on Trubisky - you see him going through progressions, making the correct reads, you see good accuracy and ball placement, can look the defense off. Look at the gifs that Josh Norris is putting up today on Trubisky; this is the guy you move up for (yes there is a bust potential as well and a small sample size, but trust your eyes - dude is a QB) . He did Watson back on the 3rd or 4th I believe... https://twitter.com/JoshNorris?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor Edited January 11, 2017 by Reed83HOF
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Yeah could be Garrett Another top end Prospect Kizer As their top 3 picks This would, and should be their draft plan like I stated. I am guessing a DB prospect at 12 or definitely Davis or Williams if one of those 2 WR prospects are there still. Sleeper pick at 12 could be one of the top RB's on the board like Fournette or Cook too to pair with the young QB they target at 33. Dak/Elliot combo this year is going to get attention in what is a highly copy cat league.
Reed83HOF Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 I disagree with you that Cleveland will trade their top pick for the simple reason that they will be in position to select from a small collection of premier defensive players. Cleveland already has a boatload of picks and now it is time that those picks get turned into actual players. I strenuously disagree with many smart members on this board who advocate selecting a high quality DB to fill a major need, especially at safety. In the grand scheme of things it will have a negligible impact whereas getting a good qb prospect on the roster, even if the player doesn't immediately play, can have an immense impact on the franchise. Those ardent fans who advocate for the selection of a DB in the first round must then surely be comfortable with the Jauron/Levy drafting of Whitner with their first round pick. Because it is akin to doing something just as wasteful and inconsequential. How does one get away from this perpetual cycle of futility? Simple: Do things differently! This patchwork mentality imbued in the front office and fandom has allowed this bedraggled franchise to remain bedraggled. Using the first round pick on a qb gives you the best chance to get a better prospect. That doesn't mean that you can't use your other picks and free agency to address the long list of needs that exists. Whitner was overdrafted and there were better players out there. These top 3 safeties are actually BPA around picks 6-12ish and have to potential to be special; Whitner was not even close to that...Hard to pass that talent up... Of course this being said, if we do end up with MCDermott, Ruben Foster might very well be our pick@ 10
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Whitner was overdrafted and there were better players out there. These top 3 safeties are actually BPA around picks 6-12ish and have to potential to be special; Whitner was not even close to that...Hard to pass that talent up... Of course this being said, if we do end up with MCDermott, Ruben Foster might very well be our pick@ 10 Foster is a great prospect, so this is not a knock on him and I wouldn't throw a fit if we took him. But he is probably the least of our needs on defense as with Rags back, its probably our deepest position on that side of the ball. There will be an Elite prospect likely there at WR, S, and DB...all much more important to us than another LB. Especially when you factor in we have Rags coming in, who was a first round prospect we got value on in the 2nd that was looking really good prior to the injury. But like I said, wouldn't hate the pick, just feel like one of the top safeties or DB's makes more of an impact on D next year, and my actual preference is either Davis or Williams at WR (as safety is deep in this draft and we can get a good prospect in the 2nd).
KRT88 Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 He fits our O perfectly. Athletic, strong, smart and has the heart it takes. Not afraid to take shots and is our best option if we dump Tyrod. Tore up a legendary bama d tonight. Also on a side note lets get Ben Boulware. Love the way he plays the game. Super instinctive. Tear me apart go ahead but I think Watson is our best bet to succeed in the near future. OK, so we want this guy, how do you suppose we go about getting him. Do you expect us to trade up to # 1 or 2 picks? That'll cost you a ton. 10th overall, next years 1st, a 2nd this year, likely another pick too. And exactly how is Watson different from Tyrod Taylor? Don't give me size. That 6-3 crap doesn't cut it because once he hits the NFL combine, he's not coming in a 6-3. Likely 6-1 3/4 at best. What we know, he plays big in big games. He's got questionable mechanics, his footwork isn't great. he's a decently accurate QB but I'm not talking completion percentage. in the NFL your college completion % mean zip. The coverage are far more complex and the players covering your WR are better. His body type reminds me more of Robert Griffin than anyone else. This isn't the guy I want to mortgage the future on. Show me more examples of him going through read progressions. Now the early mock draft projections mean NOTHING. QB always rise in the draft and you'll likely see 3 go in the top 6/7 this year. Personally, I'd try to go the David Carr route. I'd pick the most talented WR I could in round one and then trade up in early round 2 and grab Kelly or someone like him. I know Kelly isn't popular because he's a ego maniac but at least he's a pro style player. Find me a guy who can set his feet and throw the ball while going through read progressions.
Reed83HOF Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Foster is a great prospect, so this is not a knock on him and I wouldn't throw a fit if we took him. But he is probably the least of our needs on defense as with Rags back, its probably our deepest position on that side of the ball. There will be an Elite prospect likely there at WR, S, and DB...all much more important to us than another LB. Especially when you factor in we have Rags coming in, who was a first round prospect we got value on in the 2nd that was looking really good prior to the injury. But like I said, wouldn't hate the pick, just feel like one of the top safeties or DB's makes more of an impact on D next year, and my actual preference is either Davis or Williams at WR (as safety is deep in this draft and we can get a good prospect in the 2nd). Well said! I am hoping WIlliams makes it to us, but I could easily see Tenn take him to pair up with their RBs and Mariota. If that happens I hope Hooker/Adams/Peppers are there and is our pick...I wouldn't hate Foster, but meh
JohnC Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Whitner was overdrafted and there were better players out there. These top 3 safeties are actually BPA around picks 6-12ish and have to potential to be special; Whitner was not even close to that...Hard to pass that talent up... Of course this being said, if we do end up with MCDermott, Ruben Foster might very well be our pick@ 10 My position on the draft with respect to the first round selection has been frequently stated. So there is no need to repeat it. When all is said and done if the Bills select a good player who can immediately be slotted I won't be overly disappointed. I wouldn't even have an aversion to trading down and getting additional picks. But I would be irritated if the team we exchanged with selects a qb that we could have taken. The Whitner fiasco was not just a bad selection it was an odd selection. Declining to select Ngata who was then selected by Baltimore was to me infuriating. Those types of mistakes are made when combine performances and scheme considerations are overly weighted instead of general talent. Edited January 11, 2017 by JohnC
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Look at the gifs that Josh Norris is putting up today on Trubisky; this is the guy you move up for (yes there is a bust potential as well and a small sample size, but trust your eyes - dude is a QB) . He did Watson back on the 3rd or 4th I believe... https://twitter.com/JoshNorris?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor I trust my eyes. I'd take Watson over him. EDIT: I do love Josh's work though - he gets into the tape and is very thorough and for what it's worth he has them both very high on his board. He actually mocked Trubisky to the Bears at #3 and Watson to the Bills at #10. My position on the draft with respect to the first round selection has been frequently stated. So there is no need to repeat it. When all is said and done if the Bills select a good player who can immediately be slotted I won't be overly disappointed. I wouldn't even have an aversion to trading down and getting additional picks. But I would be irritated if the team we exchanged with selects a qb that we could have taken. The Whitner fiasco was not just a bad selection it was an odd selection. Declining to select Ngata who was then selected by Baltimore was to me infuriating. Those types of mistakes are made when combine performances and scheme considerations are overly weighted instead of general talent. I'm with you John. My starter position on this draft is: 1. They should take Watson if he makes it to #10; 2. If he doesn't but Trubisky does they should pick Trubisky; 3. If they keep Tyrod and don't pick a QB it should be a playmaking wide receiver or one of the top 2 corners. 4. They should not, at #10 overall, draft a safety. Edited January 11, 2017 by GunnerBill
Reed83HOF Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) I trust my eyes. I'd take Watson over him. EDIT: I do love Josh's work though - he gets into the tape and is very thorough and for what it's worth he has them both very high on his board. He actually mocked Trubisky to the Bears at #3 and Watson to the Bills at #10. You're crazy. Trubisky shows the skills that I have not seen in Watson. Watson may be the superior athlete, but the better QB is Trubisky. Watson is too boom or bust for me @10 with the other talent that is likely to be there. I sure has hell would not trade up for Watson... Edit: btw he does a really good job Edited January 11, 2017 by Reed83HOF
aristocrat Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 I trust my eyes. I'd take Watson over him. EDIT: I do love Josh's work though - he gets into the tape and is very thorough and for what it's worth he has them both very high on his board. He actually mocked Trubisky to the Bears at #3 and Watson to the Bills at #10. I'm with you John. My starter position on this draft is: 1. They should take Watson if he makes it to #10; 2. If he doesn't but Trubisky does they should pick Trubisky; 3. If they keep Tyrod and don't pick a QB it should be a playmaking wide receiver or one of the top 2 corners. 4. They should not, at #10 overall, draft a safety. i might agree if they get rid of gilmore. if they keep him and hooker is there...all day. or adams.
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 You're crazy. Trubisky shows the skills that I have not seen in Watson. Watson may be the superior athlete, but the better QB is Trubisky. Watson is too boom or bust for me @10 with the other talent that is likely to be there. I sure has hell would not trade up for Watson... Edit: btw he does a really good job I wouldn't trade up for either. And we will just have to agree to disagree on who's the better prospect - I think Watson makes more NFL throws and is a better leader.
Reed83HOF Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 I wouldn't trade up for either. And we will just have to agree to disagree on who's the better prospect - I think Watson makes more NFL throws and is a better leader. Entirely Dude!
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