Kirby Jackson Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 My guess is that the QB rankings are a little scattered this year. I think some teams will like Watson, some Trubisky and others Josh Allen (if he comes out). I don't think Kizer will be on top of anyone's board but I could be wrong.
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 I said 3rd QB, not 3rd rounder. Okay apologies. And I am sure there are scouts out there who have him as the #3 QB. I am equally sure there will be scouts out there who have him as the #1. I don't deny it is mixed up at the top. Personally I don't think it should be but for some reason people have fallen in love with Trubisky who still has some flaws and Kizer is the typical NFL being wowed by measurables - see Paxton Lynch, Brock Osweiler, EJ Manuel etc.. And its pretty clear, many posters drooling on him didn't watch him play before last night because he didn't do anything that he hasn't been doing his whole college career. And many others have been talking about him as the best QB in this class for months based on watching his games and going back and breaking down the tape.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) dump Taylor for him, rebuild the whole team around him essentially. Yes please, he's better than Taylor at a fraction of the cost. And Taylor is gone unless he restructures, if he does restructure it's because he's a bum and no one else wants him either. Time for 1st round qb no doubt. Mr Biscuit or Watson preferably imo. he didn't do anything that he hasn't been doing his whole college career. Agree. He's been cash money the whole time. Cool calm and consistent. Edited January 11, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
FireChan Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Give me a break dude...god you are annoying to talk to because you like twist everything. We are discussing a thread that has labeled him our answer, where people have been saying to trade up for him, dump Taylor for him, rebuild the whole team around him essentially. I am simply pointing out his question marks at the next level that were there before the game didn't magically go away because he had another good game like he always has. The kid has plenty of potential, but he is no slam dunk like he is being made out to be here. Here's the OP. He fits our O perfectly. Athletic, strong, smart and has the heart it takes. Not afraid to take shots and is our best option if we dump Tyrod. Tore up a legendary bama d tonight. Also on a side note lets get Ben Boulware. Love the way he plays the game. Super instinctive. Tear me apart go ahead but I think Watson is our best bet to succeed in the near future. Would love to know what you disagree with here, or think is an overreaction. I don't see any calling him a future Hall of Famer. I don't see anyone saying he's the next Cam or Luck. So, I guess I'm asking, who exactly are you talking to?
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Okay apologies. And I am sure there are scouts out there who have him as the #3 QB. I am equally sure there will be scouts out there who have him as the #1. I don't deny it is mixed up at the top. Personally I don't think it should be but for some reason people have fallen in love with Trubisky who still has some flaws and Kizer is the typical NFL being wowed by measurables - see Paxton Lynch, Brock Osweiler, EJ Manuel etc.. Oh yeah, some people think he is the top QB, but going into the game he was mostly regarded to be behind Kizer and Trib...and like every year, those rankings will also of course change through the combine, interviews, etc. There will probably be some QB that should be a 3rd rounder at best that rockets up the draft board because of some physical intangibles too. My issue in this thread about Watson is that so many have just gone over the top on him all of a sudden and now are ignoring the concerns about him that were there before the game and still there now. I watched a LOT of people on this board use all the same arguments about Tim Tebow, not only during the draft but even once he was in the NFL. All they talked about was his ability to win, dominate college, play big in the big moments etc...all while ignoring he just wasn't a good passer. I am not saying Watson is the next Tebow, but what I am saying is that there has been a lot of question marks on his passing game at the next level...I mean the kid has like 30 interceptions the last 2 years in college, there are reasons there are question marks. To ignore them now just because he had one more great college game on par with his career is an over reaction at this juncture. In some of the past drafts he would be even lower on the list of QB prospects than he is here. But because the draft class is mostly underwhelming at QB he is being looked at as anything from the first to the third best QB in the draft. I don't trade up for guys who can't even separate themselves from the other prospects, especially ones who didn't live put to expectations like Kizer. If he is on the board at 10, he almost certainly will NOT be the best player available and it would still be a reach. But, if Taylor is no longer on the team come draft time, I wouldn't hate the pick because anything is better than a year of Cardale. But if we keep Taylor in some fashion, taking Watson at 10 would be a waste of a pick when some really good prospects will be there at WR, S and DB...all bigger needs. Yes please, he's better than Taylor at a fraction of the cost. And Taylor is gone unless he restructures, if he does restructure it's because he's a bum and no one else wants him either. Time for 1st round qb no doubt. Mr Biscuit or Watson preferably imo. Agree. He's been cash money the whole time. Cool calm and consistent. Except for those 30 interceptions the last 2 years right?
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 But if we keep Taylor in some fashion, taking Watson at 10 would be a waste of a pick when some really good prospects will be there at WR, S and DB...all bigger needs. Ignoring a potential franchise QB to fill needs is not a way to get this team into contention for a Championship.
#34fan Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 I agree with you on Kizer but Watson is the real deal. Just has that it factor that you just cant teach First of all, -He does NOT. Secondly, we can grab a big-time receiver, a big-time safety, plus big-time O-line help we might not see for another 2 Drafts! Thirdly, do you really want to see Dave Lee destroy another young QB??? We need to fish for what's biting... That, and trying to put a better coaching structure together.
CardinalScotts Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 2015 completion %- 67.8 2016 completion %- 67.3 2015 passer rating- 156.3 2016 passer rating- 151.8 I can live with that. this is inflatted as stated last night 18-26 with screens and passes behind the line of scrimmage
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Here's the OP. Would love to know what you disagree with here, or think is an overreaction. I don't see any calling him a future Hall of Famer. I don't see anyone saying he's the next Cam or Luck. So, I guess I'm asking, who exactly are you talking to? Have you read this thread? And the title is the OP thread is that Watson is the answer. And its a total over reaction to want to cut Taylor for a QB prospect who isnt even the consensus best QB in his draft, has questionable passing skills at the next level, 30 interceptions in 2 seasons, and blessed with very talented WR's to bail him out like they did in the National Championship game last night on his bad passes into blanketed coverage that were more or less under thrown jump balls. And last I checked, the ONLY stat that matters to wining in the NFL is points scored. And last I checked we scored plenty of points with Taylor while missing many of our offensive weapons and the defense is why we missed the playoffs. So going all in on a gamble with Watson when we have a team that can win next year is a bit of a over reaction to one game. this is inflatted as stated last night 18-26 with screens and passes behind the line of scrimmage He also left off the 30 interceptions which is insanely high for a QB who runs a lot and throws tons of screens and behind the line of scrimmage passes.
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) My issue in this thread about Watson is that so many have just gone over the top on him all of a sudden and now are ignoring the concerns about him that were there before the game and still there now.Who are these people? It certainly isn't me and it isn't Ryan either because he has been pretty consistent that he'd take either Watson or Trubisky if they are there (he likes Trubisky more than I do). Alpha for all due respect I don't think this is about Watson at all for you. It reads like this is about Taylor. I don't think Taylor matters in this at all unless you believe he can be a Championship Quarterback. I don't think he can. Edited January 11, 2017 by GunnerBill
Maury Ballstein Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Except for those 30 interceptions the last 2 years right? Paired w 75 Td's ? Hook it up. Based on what whispers are saying about Tyrod restructuring to stay it seems the cupboard is bare. You might not like that but Cardale needs some competition. Edited January 11, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Ignoring a potential franchise QB to fill needs is not a way to get this team into contention for a Championship. No...reaching for a questionable QB who has 30 INTs in 2 seasons despite being a guy who throws a ton of screens and short passes while also running a lot is not a way to build a championship team. Hasn't this board learned from reaching for a QB? if Watson is there at 10, he will not be the best player on the board. You don't pass up a better prospect at a position of need to reach for a QB who has question marks around his ability to be a good passer at the next level. If he was a "Franchise Guy" he would be a clear consensus top QB in this draft...he would be a clear consensus number 1 overall pick. But he can't even separate himself from the under performing Kizer.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 No...reaching for a questionable QB who has 30 INTs in 2 seasons despite being a guy who throws a ton of screens and short passes while also running a lot is not a way to build a championship team. Hasn't this board learned from reaching for a QB? if Watson is there at 10, he will not be the best player on the board. You don't pass up a better prospect at a position of need to reach for a QB who has question marks around his ability to be a good passer at the next level. If he was a "Franchise Guy" he would be a clear consensus top QB in this draft...he would be a clear consensus number 1 overall pick. But he can't even separate himself from the under performing Kizer. Winston threw 28 in 2 years, I'd take him.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 If he was a "Franchise Guy" he would be a clear consensus top QB in this draft...he would be a clear consensus number 1 overall pick. But he can't even separate himself from the under performing Kizer. Valid concerns on the int's no doubt. Why wasn't Dak a consensus 1 ?
#34fan Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Who are these people? It certainly isn't me and it isn't Ryan either because he has been pretty consistent that he'd take either Watson or Trubisky if they are there (he likes Trubisky more than I do). Alpha for all due respect I don't think this is about Watson at all for you. It reads like this is about Taylor. I don't think Taylor matters in this at all unless you believe he can be a Championship Quarterback. I don't think he can. If Corey Davis is still on the Board, and Whaley Grabs WATSON, he should be fired on the spot.... FIRED!
FireChan Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) No...reaching for a questionable QB who has 30 INTs in 2 seasons despite being a guy who throws a ton of screens and short passes while also running a lot is not a way to build a championship team. Hasn't this board learned from reaching for a QB? if Watson is there at 10, he will not be the best player on the board. You don't pass up a better prospect at a position of need to reach for a QB who has question marks around his ability to be a good passer at the next level. If he was a "Franchise Guy" he would be a clear consensus top QB in this draft...he would be a clear consensus number 1 overall pick. But he can't even separate himself from the under performing Kizer. We've already addressed and dismissed this horrible argument. Should we never draft a QB unless we have the #1 pick and it's Luck or Peyton or Cam? Hate to break it to you, but that's what we've done over our entire franchise history and we've never won a Super Bowl or made the playoffs in the past 17 years. What did reaching for a QB really cost us? More years of no playoffs and no QB? Have you read this thread? And the title is the OP thread is that Watson is the answer. And its a total over reaction to want to cut Taylor for a QB prospect who isnt even the consensus best QB in his draft, has questionable passing skills at the next level, 30 interceptions in 2 seasons, and blessed with very talented WR's to bail him out like they did in the National Championship game last night on his bad passes into blanketed coverage that were more or less under thrown jump balls. And last I checked, the ONLY stat that matters to wining in the NFL is points scored. And last I checked we scored plenty of points with Taylor while missing many of our offensive weapons and the defense is why we missed the playoffs. So going all in on a gamble with Watson when we have a team that can win next year is a bit of a over reaction to one game. He also left off the 30 interceptions which is insanely high for a QB who runs a lot and throws tons of screens and behind the line of scrimmage passes. TT ain't good enough. Watson could be. That's the difference. And like Gunner said, lots of us have watched him for 2 years. It's not a 1 game overreaction for everyone. Edited January 11, 2017 by FireChan
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 Who are these people? It certainly isn't me and it isn't Ryan either because he has been pretty consistent that he'd take either Watson or Trubisky if they are there (he likes Trubisky more than I do). Alpha for all due respect I don't think this is about Watson at all for you. It reads like this is about Taylor. I don't think Taylor matters in this at all unless you believe he can be a Championship Quarterback. I don't think he can. I have said I much rather keep Taylor (a guy Watson projects similar too) because this team can win with Taylor. Its not about some love affair with Taylor, its about the fact we score plenty with him leading this offense despite missing our most talented skill players on offense for large parts of the season. I am sick of losing...I am sick of no playoffs. Drafting Watson and being wrong sets this team back 5 years. This team is a playoff caliber team already if healthy. We damn near made the playoffs despite terrible wrath of injuries the last 2 years and bad coaching (according to most of you, the worst coaching in the NFL). We can add a top prospect at WR, DB or S with the 10 pick and address the other needs in the rest of the draft and FA and this team can be very good. MOST IMPORTANTLY: We can keep Taylor and take a great WR/DB/S prospect at 10 while finding another QB as a potential replacement in the 2nd round as there will certainly be one there that wont grade out much differently than any of the first QB's off the board as none of them have really separated themselves.
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 No...reaching for a questionable QB who has 30 INTs in 2 seasons despite being a guy who throws a ton of screens and short passes while also running a lot is not a way to build a championship team. Hasn't this board learned from reaching for a QB? if Watson is there at 10, he will not be the best player on the board. You don't pass up a better prospect at a position of need to reach for a QB who has question marks around his ability to be a good passer at the next level. If he was a "Franchise Guy" he would be a clear consensus top QB in this draft...he would be a clear consensus number 1 overall pick. But he can't even separate himself from the under performing Kizer. I'm sorry I simply do not agree with your assessment of Watson's ability. Winston threw 28 INTs in 2 years playing for FSU. He has thrown picks in the pros too.... it is because he tries to make plays and doesn't wait for a receiver to be open before he throws - just like Watson. Would you have passed on him too? You have question marks over Watson's ability to be a passer at the next level.... the question marks I have are relatively minor. You say he can't be a franchise guy if he isn't a consensus #1 pick.... tell Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco, Derek Carr, Drew Brees that. Your argument essentially amounts to "I like Tyrod I think he is better than you do and I think we should build around him unless there is an Andrew Luck type prospect there for us to draft." That's fine. You stick with Tyrod. I'll take Watson we can come back to this in 3 years and see who looks smart.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 If Corey Davis is still on the Board, and Whaley Grabs WATSON, he should be fired on the spot.... FIRED! This times 1 million.
GunnerBill Posted January 11, 2017 Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) If Corey Davis is still on the Board, and Whaley Grabs WATSON, he should be fired on the spot.... FIRED! If Watson is on the board and he passes on him he should be fired. Let me say this... a GM who picks Trubisky over Watson if one does will not be in a job in 2 years. Edited January 11, 2017 by GunnerBill
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