Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 This is not my contention at all. We missed the playoffs because our D was terrible. I don't rate Tyrod as highly as you and I am 50/50 on the option but I don't want Watson because of my opinion on Tyrod. I want Watson because I think he has a shot at being a Franchise QB and I did (up to a few weeks ago) think that what I, based on my own evaluation, thought of as a strange coolness on Watson might lead to him being there when the Bills picked. I can't remember the last time a guy I thought had a genuine chance to be a top end Franchise QB was there in that scenario. I didn't clamour for Tannehill or Gabbert or Locker or even (to show it works both ways) for Derek Carr. I think if you have a shot at a genuine franchise Quarterback (I define that as a guy I believe I can win a Superbowl with) then you take him unless you already have an established one on the roster. I wouldn't hate Corey Davis or Mike Williams at 10, I wouldn't hate Humphrey or Lattimore at corner either (I am more lukewarm on a safety at #10 I confess) and I think if you upgrade your weapons opposite Sammy and strengthen the defense then you could keep Tyrod and make the playoffs. But I don't believe Tyrod Taylor is ever winning you a Superbowl. And if I believe there is a QB prospect there at #10 who might then I pick him. I have also said I would not personally trade up for Watson (though I'd trade up for him before I'd have done it for Goff or Wentz) but I confess I wouldn't absolutely hate it if the Bills did. Watson is going to end up a top 10 pick I am sure of it. Quarterbacks go top 10 even if they are not strictly top 10 players. I can't tell you whether Watson will be a top 10 player on my board by the end of my evaluations but I can tell you I have looked back at my 2016 board and with the grade I have give to Watson he would have been the 8th highest grade I gave in 2016. Hey, I am only an amateur I might be totally wrong. But I can only say what I see when I watch the film and my belief we should draft him if he is there is NOT an reaction to last night. Not in the slightest. Honestly I don't disagree with much here. If we keep Taylor and take Watson at 10, I wont be upset, although I think the best play is to take a WR, S, or DB there instead and take a QB in the 2nd. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way concluding Watson will be a bust...I am simply pointing out that last nights game which was on par with his whole career doesnt change my concerns of his ability to translate to a very good NFL QB. I would love nothing more than to have some big time QB here...and I am not some TT staunch defender or fanboy...he has things he must improve on. But I do disagree about what you think we can or can't accomplish with Taylor. Yes, he has left some opportunities on the field and didn't see guys, and he has to get better at that. He also needs to take more chances, but I think part of that is tied to the personnel on the field as he took more chances with a healthy Sammy he could trust. However, despite losing every single skill player on the offense last year for periods of the season, and many of their backups...despite playing hurt last year...despite having 2 OC's in 2 seasons...despite missing his 2 best WR's on the roster for large parts of this year and seeing them play hurt most the time on the field...despite having guys like Goodwin and Harvin having to start due to injury...despite losing Wood and other OL for parts of the season...despite not having Clay for a game or two this year...despite McCoy missing 1 game and most of 2 other games...This kid still led an offense that was among the league leaders in scoring and had this team in position to win games in terms of putting points on the board just to see the defense wipe out those opportunities. We were in contention for the playoffs the last 2 years despite all of that...and I don't think anyone will logically say we missed the playoffs because we didn't score enough. The defense let this team down way more than the offense ever did. We get a healthy Shaq and Rags back this year. We start the season with Dareus. We should improve our secondary though the draft and FA. And with a new coaching staff getting the D back to what it does best, there is a VERY good shot we can see a big turnaround with the D next year. And if we do, the offense is plenty potent enough for us to not only make the playoffs but be dangerous. Add in another playmaker at WR hopefully, and this team can and should make the playoffs next year (barring a dismantling of the roster by injuries for the 3rd season in a row). How questionable is he if he can already do the same things Tyrod does? He provides the same run threat, but is a more accomplished passer. And after 17 straight years of missing the playoffs, taking a risk to be great rather than just good may be worth that gamble for the Bills. You don't know if he is a more accomplished passer because he has never thrown a ball in the NFL. If he was a sure fire passer, he would be coveted in this draft like Andrew Luck was.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Taj Boyd... no thanks to Desean Watson Todd Collins.....no thanks to Tom Brady?
GunnerBill Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Taj Boyd... no thanks to Desean Watson Most ridiculous post of the thread.
ko12010 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 TT on 3rd and 3 vs Watson on 3rd and 3 is mega difference imo. Any route is in play. The routine simple plays are much easier for young Watson then old Tyrod. I also don't see TT throwing for 400 plus yards ever. No hesitation. No ball patting. Zip on passes over the middle. Just way more upside without the extended periods of ineffectiveness. Ok that makes sense. Haven't watched him too much so I'll defer to your analysis here. It's exactly those things that tend to separate the best qbs from average or even good ones.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) Did anyone say Vince Young 2.0 yet? If they did they should have just been quiet. Edited January 10, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz
Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 The teams that need a QB: #1 Overall Cleveland - Hands down their pick without question SHOULD be Garrett or Allen (I say Garrett). The D is actually worse than the offense and there is no sure fire QB here and they can take one of the other QB's at top of 2nd and live with RG3 while they groom him. See Oakland Raiders Mack/Carr draft. #2 Overall San Francisco - Similar to above, their pick should hands down be Allen (or Garrett if Allen goes first) and take a QB in the 2nd. That being said, with a new GM and Coach coming in, starting with a fresh QB prospect would be hard to pass up...but again, I just think Allen is such a better pro prospect than any QB here and when your roster is as bad as the Niners, BPA should be the pick as you can NOT afford to miss on the 2nd pick in the draft. #3 Overall Chicago - This is where I think it makes more sense for a QB to come off the board than 1 and 2 as the those guys above are such higher prospects than any QB in this draft. But once they are gone, I think gambling on a QB here makes more sense. I still don't know that its a lock as there are still players on the board that grade out better at other positions of need than any QB available. #6 Overall Jets - QB is definitely a big need here, but so is DB and there is a good chance Tankersley or Tabor could go here. Especially if Chicago goes QB and takes the one they prefer. The Jets have been set back multiple times now taking a questionable QB prospect in the first and 2nd round. They already have an prospect to groom there from last year...I think its more likely they go DB here and target another QB in the 2nd or 3rd to compete with Hackenberg. Sleeper pick here could be Fournette or Cook at RB, especially with the impact Elliot has had in Dallas.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 1. You are comparing NFL and College..not even remotely the same. The graveyard is littered with dead NFL careers of guys who could throw for 400 yards in college. 2. A QB does not need to throw 400 yards to win in the first place. 3. The only stat that matters in any level of football is points on the scoreboard. Taylor and scoring are NOT the reasons we missed the playoffs. 4. All everyone talks about with Taylor is passing yards while completely ignoring how impactful he is with his legs that both does damage and also opens up our run game for McCoy because they have to account for 3 things every play instead of 2...Pass, Run, or a Taylor Run. TT may not be the guy who is going to throw between 4000 and 5000 yards, but he also doesn't have to for us to win with him. There are parts of his game he needs to improve on, the main one being willing to take more chances. But he is also not why we didn't make the playoffs the last 2 years and if our D wasnt so bad this year, we would have made the playoffs this year even with all the injuries. People also forget he didn't have a healthy WR group almost the entire year, including missing our best guy in Watkins most the year who also played hurt when he was out there. Give this kid another weapon at 10 in Williams or Codey, then take a 2nd round QB as insurance to groom to replace Taylor if he isnt getting the job done. But getting rid of Taylor and going all in on a questionable QB prospect at 10 is a massive gamble, and could set this team back 5 years if that gamble doesn't payoff. I don't agree. I think he looked lost vs Ravens/Bengals/Oakland/Pitt/2nd pats games. He isn't "the guy" unless a hypnotist breaks him of his "trenative ways". I'm out on him, schedules tougher next year. Jmo Even with backup wr's he failed to throw it to them as they stood alone in the EZ. How questionable is he if he can already do the same things Tyrod does? He provides the same run threat, but is a more accomplished passer. And after 17 straight years of missing the playoffs, taking a risk to be great rather than just good may be worth that gamble for the Bills. Agree Todd Collins.....no thanks to Tom Brady? Kyle Boller to Aaron Rogers ? Geeeez.
K D Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 If they did they should have just been quiet. You're right, VY was much better.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 You're right, VY was much better. You're blind. Watson's throwing mechanics are far better than VY's ever were. Keep choppin'
Maury Ballstein Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) You're right, VY was much better.There he is. Always good for a laugh Could you please do a post on Mondays that is similar to stugotz's game notes ? Edited January 10, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
machine gun kelly Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 The only way we get him is a philly or LA type trade. You want to give up that many pics. I say pick up TT option as he won't negotiate, go for WR, S, S in first three rounds, get another QB in the 4th, let Cardale get all 2nd team reps. Pick up Lynn/Bradley, go to 4-3, Lorax as the Sam, Brown and Ragland. Move Glenn to RT as CK has now proven he is a good LT. I also say we blew it not picking up Floyd off waivers. We have 24 free agents to sign, but not all starters. A couple of excellent safety pics with Floyd, and a high WR pick like a Mike Evans, and you may see TT get even better with two of his three WR are tall, fast and blockers. Woods would be a goner. Like him, but need to upgrade. That's my fantasy as 7th in points with a top 5 defense equates to playoffs. Our running game will only improve with Glenn at RT, and RT have become as important as LT in this new NFL. Fine if you guys disagree, but Bradley can dramatically change this defense, and make sure he flies down to LA and go fishing with Kyle and consider one more year and lay out the plan. He just doesn't want a rebuild. We can be a playoff team if all this breaks. Besides when Sammy is out there he is phenomenal, but with injury history having two big WR's will compensate with Clay. A shorter QB at 6'1" having three big targets is your best friend. Look who TT had to throw to most of the year. I watched just about every play of Floyd in AZ, and outside of some drops this year, he was a big reason for the #1 Offense and passing game the last couple of years. Disagree, no problem, but this is my hope. We don't have enough talent to trade our 1st this year, amd give up two 2's, amd next year's first. If he falls to 10 then that changes everything, but Cleveland, Jets, 49ers, even Jax will not get him to 10. No way.
KOKBILLS Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Todd Collins.....no thanks to Tom Brady? It's really not worth a response...
JPicc2114 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Most ridiculous post of the thread. um no. They ran the same offense.. Taj Boyd is almost the exact same type of player. Watson is nothing special and he won't be the first QB taken Give me Mitch Trubisky over him
frogger Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Watch for the rise of Josh Allen, QB from Wyoming, he might sneak into the top ten, even top QB spot. The only way we get him is a philly or LA type trade. You want to give up that many pics. I say pick up TT option as he won't negotiate, go for WR, S, S in first three rounds, get another QB in the 4th, let Cardale get all 2nd team reps. Pick up Lynn/Bradley, go to 4-3, Lorax as the Sam, Brown and Ragland. Move Glenn to RT as CK has now proven he is a good LT. I also say we blew it not picking up Floyd off waivers. We have 24 free agents to sign, but not all starters. A couple of excellent safety pics with Floyd, and a high WR pick like a Mike Evans, and you may see TT get even better with two of his three WR are tall, fast and blockers. Woods would be a goner. Like him, but need to upgrade. That's my fantasy as 7th in points with a top 5 defense equates to playoffs. Our running game will only improve with Glenn at RT, and RT have become as important as LT in this new NFL. Fine if you guys disagree, but Bradley can dramatically change this defense, and make sure he flies down to LA and go fishing with Kyle and consider one more year and lay out the plan. He just doesn't want a rebuild. We can be a playoff team if all this breaks. Besides when Sammy is out there he is phenomenal, but with injury history having two big WR's will compensate with Clay. A shorter QB at 6'1" having three big targets is your best friend. Look who TT had to throw to most of the year. I watched just about every play of Floyd in AZ, and outside of some drops this year, he was a big reason for the #1 Offense and passing game the last couple of years. Disagree, no problem, but this is my hope. We don't have enough talent to trade our 1st this year, amd give up two 2's, amd next year's first. If he falls to 10 then that changes everything, but Cleveland, Jets, 49ers, even Jax will not get him to 10. No way. I like the effort, but how about signing Cyprien from the Jags? He played for Bradley and played well. The FS I like is a late 1st/ early 2nd round projected CB King, great ball skills and could make the conversion like Byrd did.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) You're right, VY was much better.From a facebooker ***** There is no comparison of EJ and Tyrod Taylor to Deshaun Watson. Neither one did the things Watson has done. Stop comparing them. Vince Young college stats: FR: 1155 yards, 6 td's 7 ints SO: 1849 yards, 12 tds, 11 ints JR: 3036 yards, 26 tds, 10 ints EJ Manuel college stats: FR: 817 yards, 2 tds, 6 ints SO: 841 yards, 4 tds, 4 ints JR: 2666 yards, 18 tds, 8 ints SR: 3397 yards, 23 tds, 10 ints Tyrod Taylor college stats: FR: 927 yards, 5 tds, 3 ints SO: 1036 yards, 2 tds, 7 ints JR: 2311 yards, 13 tds, 5 ints SR: 2743 yards, 24tds, 5 ints Deshaun Watson college stats FR: 1466 yards, 14 tds, 2 ints SO: 4109 yards, 35 tds, 13 ints JR: 4593 yards, 41 tds, 17 ints His stats are not even comparable. He absolutely smokes these jokers as a passing QB and was just as good a runner as them. Its not even close. Young, Manuel, Taylors college production actually translates exactly who they are in the NFL. If watson is a pass first QB that can sling it and get the ball to his best recievers. He's has great size and mobility. He can see the whole field. He's smart and he's already playing in a pro style offense underneath the center. *****only 1500 yards better than Vy's best season. Come on man. Edited January 10, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
eball Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 You don't know if he is a more accomplished passer because he has never thrown a ball in the NFL. If he was a sure fire passer, he would be coveted in this draft like Andrew Luck was. I know he's a much more accomplished thrower in college than Tyrod was.
CommonCents Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 3828 33 touchdowns and 12 pics 3896 36 touchdowns and 13 pics 3851 with 34 touchdowns 11 pics Rushed for 1165 during those 3 years. Those are the numbers for Tajh Boyd, he completed over 67 percent of his passes in two of those years. Be wary of a Clemson QB.
PatsFanNH Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 I doubt he is there either Cleveland, Chicago, jets, or even the chargers pick him up.
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