FireChan Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) Geezus, you are over analyzing the comparison...if you read posts you would see how I described the comparison. But keep making it what ever you want to make it as you often do. What you forget is that Bridgewater and Geno were considered to be going anywhere from 1st to 10th. Once again though, you did NOT read. I wrote verbatim the draft hype going INTO the draft...not what history eventually proved out. So once again this nonsense you are writing has nothing to do with what I said. Going into this draft, the buzz around the QB's is similar to the 2013 class where there was no clear QB that was the best prospect, there was no clear idea where a QB would be taken first, and none were that strongly considered to be the #1 pick in the draft. All of this could change before this years draft, but as we sit today the QB needy Browns aren't even a lock to take any of the QB's. Like I said, the hype going into the 2016 draft didn't have Goff and Wentz going 1 and 2. Was it like the 2013 draft too? What a weird point to make. "The "hype" of this draft is like the 2013 draft, even though many drafts are hyped for better or worse and it usually means nothing." Okay, thanks for letting us know. Edited January 10, 2017 by FireChan
PolishDave Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 I think that if we have to trade up for Watson we should do it...... but only after he has been disected to death by the scouts So what you are saying then, is that you are just going to trust the Bills made the right decision no matter what that decision is? That is how I would interpret what your stance is.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) I think that if we have to trade up for Watson we should do it...... but only after he has been disected to death by the scouts Weird...didn't realize scoring was why we missed the playoffs this year. Kind of seemed like the atrocious defense was the issue and we one of the top scoring teams in the NFL...but what do those pesky facts know right. I swear people wont be happy here until we have the next Drew Brees. If the defense is even marginal, not only do we make the playoffs but we are dangerous. I mean this notion of trading up for a QB who isnt even a top prospect in the draft is hysterical and so totally TSW. Never mind that we couldn't keep any WR's healthy...nevermind our D was terrible...nevermind we scored a ton of points...nevermind we have huge needs elsewhere and Taylor was not even remotely close to our biggest problem...never mind all the defensive mistakes and missed games by our best players due to injury and suspensions...never mind losing our top 2 draft picks for half and all of the season. Its clearly all on Taylor and we must trade the farm for a guy who isn't even a top prospect in this draft. Makes perfect sense. Edited January 10, 2017 by Alphadawg7
John from Riverside Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 So what you are saying then, is that you are just going to trust the Bills made the right decision no matter what that decision is? That is how I would interpret what your stance is. Im not understanding the question I think Watson is a Dak Prescott type player....my evaluation on him is far before last night. Weird...didn't realize scoring was why we missed the playoffs this year. Kind of seemed like the atrocious defense was the issue and we one of the top scoring teams in the NFL...but what do those pesky facts know right. I swear people wont be happy here until we have the next Drew Brees. If the defense is even marginal, not only do we make the playoffs but we are dangerous. I mean this notion of trading up for a QB who isnt even a top prospect in the draft is hysterical and so totally TSW. Never mind that we couldn't keep any WR's healthy...nevermind our D was terrible...nevermind we scored a ton of points...nevermind we have huge needs elsewhere and Taylor was not even remotely close to our biggest problem...never mind all the defensive mistakes and missed games by our best players due to injury and suspensions...never mind losing our top 2 draft picks for half and all of the season. Its clearly all on Taylor and we must trade the farm for a guy who isn't even a top prospect in this draft. Makes perfect sense, What if TT isnt here?
Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Im not understanding the question I think Watson is a Dak Prescott type player....my evaluation on him is far before last night. What if TT isnt here? If TT is not here, I don't have an issue taking Watson at 10 because Cardale is nothing more than a huge project...but trading up for Watson? NO WAY. He doesn't grade out much different than any of making QB prospects, one or more of which will easily be there in the 2nd. I would never trade up for 10 for any QB in this draft. You trade down (which I don't want to do, I would rather stay at 10 and take one of the top prospects at WR, S, or possibly DB if Gilmore leaves) or stay pat and take a better prospect then take a QB in the 2nd.
John from Riverside Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) If TT is not here, I don't have an issue taking Watson at 10 because Cardale is nothing more than a huge project...but trading up for Watson? NO WAY. He doesn't grade out much different than any of making QB prospects, one or more of which will easily be there in the 2nd. I would never trade up for 10 for any QB in this draft. You trade down (which I don't want to do, I would rather stay at 10 and take one of the top prospects at WR, S, or possibly DB if Gilmore leaves) or stay pat and take a better prospect then take a QB in the 2nd. I am usually never a proponet of trading up I am really worried about our qb position as right this second Initially I thought that keeping TT and drafting Watson at 10 was a swell idea Edited January 10, 2017 by John from Hemet
PolishDave Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted Today, 02:05 PM John from Hemet, on 10 Jan 2017 - 2:01 PM, said: I think that if we have to trade up for Watson we should do it...... but only after he has been disected to death by the scouts Im not understanding the question I think Watson is a Dak Prescott type player....my evaluation on him is far before last night. You said that you want to trade up for Watson but only after the Bills scouts disect him. That implies that you want to trade up for him only if the Bills scouts agree with you that he is worth trading up for - and that if they don't agree he is worth trading up for then you don't want to trade up for him. Thereby you are basically delegating the decision to them no matter what.
ko12010 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 No objections from me. He's cash money. We all know you've been very critical of TT. Which is your right obviously. My question is why do you think he's so cash money? He wasn't making throws last night TT doesn't. You have to project what this guy will look like against NFL caliber defenders. His biggest throws last night were completions bc of the wr Williams making incredible catches not bc the throws were so perfect. Watson basically lobbed him up for Williams to make a play on--not really hard to do. I actually wish TT was more willing to give his guys chances like this, so I like that about Watson, but what about those throws were so awe inspiring? That's all I'm saying. Def seems like a good prospect but not a Manning like sure thing
Maury Ballstein Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) We all know you've been very critical of TT. Which is your right obviously. My question is why do you think he's so cash money? He wasn't making throws last night TT doesn't. You have to project what this guy will look like against NFL caliber defenders. His biggest throws last night were completions bc of the wr Williams making incredible catches not bc the throws were so perfect. Watson basically lobbed him up for Williams to make a play on--not really hard to do. I actually wish TT was more willing to give his guys chances like this, so I like that about Watson, but what about those throws were so awe inspiring? That's all I'm saying. Def seems like a good prospect but not a Manning like sure thing TT on 3rd and 3 vs Watson on 3rd and 3 is mega difference imo. Any route is in play. The routine simple plays are much easier for young Watson then old Tyrod. I also don't see TT throwing for 400 plus yards ever. No hesitation. No ball patting. Zip on passes over the middle. Just way more upside without the extended periods of ineffectiveness. Edited January 10, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
NickelCity Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Initially I thought that keeping TT and drafting Watson at 10 was a swell idea I still feel this way. Let the crazy season commence.
John from Riverside Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted Today, 02:05 PM John from Hemet, on 10 Jan 2017 - 2:01 PM, said: You said that you want to trade up for Watson but only after the Bills scouts disect him. That implies that you want to trade up for him only if the Bills scouts agree with you that he is worth trading up for - and that if they don't agree he is worth trading up for then you don't want to trade up for him. Thereby you are basically delegating the decision to them no matter what. Thank you for telling me what I think.....it makes my life so much easier
GunnerBill Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Weird...didn't realize scoring was why we missed the playoffs this year. Kind of seemed like the atrocious defense was the issue and we one of the top scoring teams in the NFL...but what do those pesky facts know right. I swear people wont be happy here until we have the next Drew Brees. If the defense is even marginal, not only do we make the playoffs but we are dangerous. I mean this notion of trading up for a QB who isnt even a top prospect in the draft is hysterical and so totally TSW. Never mind that we couldn't keep any WR's healthy...nevermind our D was terrible...nevermind we scored a ton of points...nevermind we have huge needs elsewhere and Taylor was not even remotely close to our biggest problem...never mind all the defensive mistakes and missed games by our best players due to injury and suspensions...never mind losing our top 2 draft picks for half and all of the season. Its clearly all on Taylor and we must trade the farm for a guy who isn't even a top prospect in this draft. Makes perfect sense. This is not my contention at all. We missed the playoffs because our D was terrible. I don't rate Tyrod as highly as you and I am 50/50 on the option but I don't want Watson because of my opinion on Tyrod. I want Watson because I think he has a shot at being a Franchise QB and I did (up to a few weeks ago) think that what I, based on my own evaluation, thought of as a strange coolness on Watson might lead to him being there when the Bills picked. I can't remember the last time a guy I thought had a genuine chance to be a top end Franchise QB was there in that scenario. I didn't clamour for Tannehill or Gabbert or Locker or even (to show it works both ways) for Derek Carr. I think if you have a shot at a genuine franchise Quarterback (I define that as a guy I believe I can win a Superbowl with) then you take him unless you already have an established one on the roster. I wouldn't hate Corey Davis or Mike Williams at 10, I wouldn't hate Humphrey or Lattimore at corner either (I am more lukewarm on a safety at #10 I confess) and I think if you upgrade your weapons opposite Sammy and strengthen the defense then you could keep Tyrod and make the playoffs. But I don't believe Tyrod Taylor is ever winning you a Superbowl. And if I believe there is a QB prospect there at #10 who might then I pick him. I have also said I would not personally trade up for Watson (though I'd trade up for him before I'd have done it for Goff or Wentz) but I confess I wouldn't absolutely hate it if the Bills did. Watson is going to end up a top 10 pick I am sure of it. Quarterbacks go top 10 even if they are not strictly top 10 players. I can't tell you whether Watson will be a top 10 player on my board by the end of my evaluations but I can tell you I have looked back at my 2016 board and with the grade I have give to Watson he would have been the 8th highest grade I gave in 2016. Hey, I am only an amateur I might be totally wrong. But I can only say what I see when I watch the film and my belief we should draft him if he is there is NOT an reaction to last night. Not in the slightest.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 TT on 3rd and 3 vs Watson on 3rd and 3 is mega difference imo. Any route is in play. The routine simple plays are much easier for young Watson then old Tyrod. I also don't see TT throwing for 400 plus yards ever. No hesitation. No ball patting. Zip on passes over the middle. Just way more upside without the extended periods of ineffectiveness. 1. You are comparing NFL and College..not even remotely the same. The graveyard is littered with dead NFL careers of guys who could throw for 400 yards in college. 2. A QB does not need to throw 400 yards to win in the first place. 3. The only stat that matters in any level of football is points on the scoreboard. Taylor and scoring are NOT the reasons we missed the playoffs. 4. All everyone talks about with Taylor is passing yards while completely ignoring how impactful he is with his legs that both does damage and also opens up our run game for McCoy because they have to account for 3 things every play instead of 2...Pass, Run, or a Taylor Run. TT may not be the guy who is going to throw between 4000 and 5000 yards, but he also doesn't have to for us to win with him. There are parts of his game he needs to improve on, the main one being willing to take more chances. But he is also not why we didn't make the playoffs the last 2 years and if our D wasnt so bad this year, we would have made the playoffs this year even with all the injuries. People also forget he didn't have a healthy WR group almost the entire year, including missing our best guy in Watkins most the year who also played hurt when he was out there. Give this kid another weapon at 10 in Williams or Codey, then take a 2nd round QB as insurance to groom to replace Taylor if he isnt getting the job done. But getting rid of Taylor and going all in on a questionable QB prospect at 10 is a massive gamble, and could set this team back 5 years if that gamble doesn't payoff.
Sandy McFiddish Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Would love it if he falls to 10! He has Tyrod's mobility and is still accurate. I want a QB that can actually make back shoulder throws, it has been far too long.
John from Riverside Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 This is not my contention at all. We missed the playoffs because our D was terrible. I don't rate Tyrod as highly as you and I am 50/50 on the option but I don't want Watson because of my opinion on Tyrod. I want Watson because I think he has a shot at being a Franchise QB and I did (up to a few weeks ago) think that what I, based on my own evaluation, thought of as a strange coolness on Watson might lead to him being there when the Bills picked. I can't remember the last time a guy I thought had a genuine chance to be a top end Franchise QB was there in that scenario. I didn't clamour for Tannehill or Gabbert or Locker or even (to show it works both ways) for Derek Carr. I think if you have a shot at a genuine franchise Quarterback (I define that as a guy I believe I can win a Superbowl with) then you take him unless you already have an established one on the roster. I wouldn't hate Corey Davis or Mike Williams at 10, I wouldn't hate Humphrey or Lattimore at corner either (I am more lukewarm on a safety at #10 I confess) and I think if you upgrade your weapons opposite Sammy and strengthen the defense then you could keep Tyrod and make the playoffs. But I don't believe Tyrod Taylor is ever winning you a Superbowl. And if I believe there is a QB prospect there at #10 who might then I pick him. I have also said I would not personally trade up for Watson (though I'd trade up for him before I'd have done it for Goff or Wentz) but I confess I wouldn't absolutely hate it if the Bills did. Watson is going to end up a top 10 pick I am sure of it. Quarterbacks go top 10 even if they are not strictly top 10 players. I can't tell you whether Watson will be a top 10 player on my board by the end of my evaluations but I can tell you I have looked back at my 2016 board and with the grade I have give to Watson he would have been the 8th highest grade I gave in 2016. Hey, I am only an amateur I might be totally wrong. But I can only say what I see when I watch the film and my belief we should draft him if he is there is NOT an reaction to last night. Not in the slightest. This is where I am at There are a lot of guys that I would like at 10.....I am not oblivious to the fact that safeties, pass catchers all needed but The fact remains.....if you have "that QB" you can overcome a lot of weaknesses in other areas..... and by the way....I still like TT....just not at the option price. 1. You are comparing NFL and College..not even remotely the same. The graveyard is littered with dead NFL careers of guys who could throw for 400 yards in college. 2. A QB does not need to throw 400 yards to win in the first place. 3. The only stat that matters in any level of football is points on the scoreboard. Taylor and scoring are NOT the reasons we missed the playoffs. 4. All everyone talks about with Taylor is passing yards while completely ignoring how impactful he is with his legs that both does damage and also opens up our run game for McCoy because they have to account for 3 things every play instead of 2...Pass, Run, or a Taylor Run. TT may not be the guy who is going to throw between 4000 and 5000 yards, but he also doesn't have to for us to win with him. There are parts of his game he needs to improve on, the main one being willing to take more chances. But he is also not why we didn't make the playoffs the last 2 years and if our D wasnt so bad this year, we would have made the playoffs this year even with all the injuries. People also forget he didn't have a healthy WR group almost the entire year, including missing our best guy in Watkins most the year who also played hurt when he was out there. Give this kid another weapon at 10 in Williams or Codey, then take a 2nd round QB as insurance to groom to replace Taylor if he isnt getting the job done. But getting rid of Taylor and going all in on a questionable QB prospect at 10 is a massive gamble, and could set this team back 5 years if that gamble doesn't payoff. All of this is true
Sandy McFiddish Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 I cannot forsee the Browns not taking a QB this year though.
eball Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 1. You are comparing NFL and College..not even remotely the same. The graveyard is littered with dead NFL careers of guys who could throw for 400 yards in college. 2. A QB does not need to throw 400 yards to win in the first place. 3. The only stat that matters in any level of football is points on the scoreboard. Taylor and scoring are NOT the reasons we missed the playoffs. 4. All everyone talks about with Taylor is passing yards while completely ignoring how impactful he is with his legs that both does damage and also opens up our run game for McCoy because they have to account for 3 things every play instead of 2...Pass, Run, or a Taylor Run. TT may not be the guy who is going to throw between 4000 and 5000 yards, but he also doesn't have to for us to win with him. There are parts of his game he needs to improve on, the main one being willing to take more chances. But he is also not why we didn't make the playoffs the last 2 years and if our D wasnt so bad this year, we would have made the playoffs this year even with all the injuries. People also forget he didn't have a healthy WR group almost the entire year, including missing our best guy in Watkins most the year who also played hurt when he was out there. Give this kid another weapon at 10 in Williams or Codey, then take a 2nd round QB as insurance to groom to replace Taylor if he isnt getting the job done. But getting rid of Taylor and going all in on a questionable QB prospect at 10 is a massive gamble, and could set this team back 5 years if that gamble doesn't payoff. How questionable is he if he can already do the same things Tyrod does? He provides the same run threat, but is a more accomplished passer. And after 17 straight years of missing the playoffs, taking a risk to be great rather than just good may be worth that gamble for the Bills.
PolishDave Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Thank you for telling me what I think.....it makes my life so much easier ?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 I cannot forsee the Browns not taking a QB this year though. They pick 1st and 12th. They could easily end up with Myles Garrett and Deshone Kizer, or some similar combination.
JohnC Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Gotta look at the teams ahead of the #10 pick that need a QB. #1 Cleveland needs a QB #2 San Fran needs a QB #3 Chicago needs a QB #4 Jags #5 Titans #6 Jets need a QB #7 Chargers #8 Panthers #9 Bengals #10 Bills At this point, it might be wiser to look at Mike Williams WR Clemson and the Bills might need to make another Watkins move to get him. Cleveland is not going to take a qb with their first pick and San Fran is probably not going to take a qb with their first pick because the top two players in this draft are top tier defensive linemen. The top three ranked qbs (so far) are good prospects but not the type of prospects to gamble on when the players at the top of the draft are substantially more highly touted players. From what I have read the Jets are very interested in Trubinsky, especially their owner. The Bills will be in a good position to select one of the top three qbs in this draft. Odds are they won't. Instead they will select a highly rated DB who will not have an appreciable effect on the team. A patching the holes mentality is what has kept this franchise an irrelevant and invisible franchise. It's a reprise of the Levy/Jauron reasoning for drafting of Whitner.
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