Maury Ballstein Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 I don't want Tyrod back and I think the QB class is weak compared to some of the previous ones. There are no QB's that I look at and think, "that guy is gonna be really good." There are guys who may end up being good, but none that I would feel all that great about taking in the top 10. Trubisky? Maybe. Kizer? Late 1st. Watson? 2nd or 3rd. All of them will be over drafted though because of team needs. Just like the draft that saw Locker and Ponder go in the top 15. I'm not a Gm but how anyone would think Locker wouldn't suck is beyond me. Worst accuracy ever.
Reed83HOF Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 I hope you enjoy losing 13 games. To rebuild this team correctly - you bet your ass... TT is not taking us anywhere, we have older vets who are aging, a ton (23-24) of FAs and about $25 million under the cap if we keep him; not to mention Watkins is like the only WR we have under contract. Aaron Williams is retired, Corey Graham is getting way old, Kyle Williams may retire (even if he isn't he is 1 year older), Jerry Hughes is older, Ingocnito is older, Gilmore is gone and you have who Robey starting as a #2?. Where do you think this team is going anytime soon? Sneak in the playoffs and get bounced like Miami? That window is there for like 2 years max to get quickly bounced.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 It's still early. Wentz looked good. He was supposed to be a mid 1st rounder at best this time last year. Dak is the truth. Goff is still very young. Lynch is basically unknown. 2015 looked like Winston and nobody else, yet Mariota is legit. Was 2014 a weak class? 1 QB in the top 10, but 2 of them taken later are franchise guys, and Bortles is fringe. 2012 looked like Luck and nobody else, until RG3 tore it up and flew up the rankings. Then there was Wilson. And Tanny. 2011 looked like Cam and nobody else, except for Dalton in the second. Bottom line, there's almost always at least 1 to 2 fringe franchise guys almost every draft. This argument saying it's a "weak QB class" so we shouldn't take anybody are very stupid. This year is no worse than 2016, 2015, or 2014. Outside of the #1 overalls, it's no worse than 2012 and 2011. The 2013 draft was the worst in living memory. Time to stop pretending every draft is the 2013 draft when it comes to QB's. You mean the draft that had a league MVP who set rookie passing and rushing records, and a perennial playoff contender in Dalton? Yeah, the QB's all stunk in that one. Tyrod was that draft class too! Whatever your opinion may be of him, he's one of the more successful late round QB's as of late.
GunnerBill Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 This is true! And WRs like Mike Williams can go up and get the ball and make adjustments for the catch. Completion percentage doesn't deal with ball placement issues and at times mis-fired passes. Both of which he has issues with.... My point is this - don't overreact to one or 2 games. Clemson had 99 plays last night on offense - his numbers should look gaudy and yeah he led them to a win - great job (I do mean that sincerely!). When you look at a QB to draft; you have to look at their entire body of work. To be successful in the NFL you need these top teir skills Accuracy & Ball Placement, Poise in the Pocket, decision making and then you can make sure you have enough arm strength and mobility in the pocket... A lot of the throws last night were very quick, short easy throws on the boundary; others were toss ups to Mike Williams. Once and NFL D takes those away his weaknesses will become more magnified and they will challenge him to be an NFL QB. He will become a limited QB... No overreaction here. I have been calling him the best Quarterback in this class since mid season when I started to really begin my evaluations in earnest. He isn't accurate... yet the numbers and eye test suggest he is. He is bailed out by Mike Williams...... yet Williams missed the whole 2015 season. He is the best QB in this class he is better than both the top 2 last year. If he is there at 10 and he won't be.... the Bills would be mad to pass on him.
bobobonators Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Tyrod was that draft class too! Whatever your opinion may be of him, he's one of the more successful late round QB's as of late. Being objective, he really is.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Any non TT lovers think this is a weak draft for qb's? I find it humorous most TT guys are pushing this narrative. Here we go with more TSW non sense. What is your peoples issue with always having to divide and label people? It gets sooooooooo old around here, you can't even discuss something without being labeled a lover or hater of what ever you are talking about. Now apparently I am a TT guy just because I don't think its necessary to tear this team down and rebuild? I don't have any delusions about TT, I know his strengths and weaknesses, but more importantly, I do know we can score with him on the field and that scoring was NOT why we missed the playoffs this year. I also know we challenged last year and this year for a playoff spot late in the season despite all of you saying we had the worst coach in the NFL and we also were missing most of our best players for large parts of each season. So I prefer to add more talent and get our guys healthy and see what this team can do...but that doesn't make me a "TT" guy. I don't push any "narratives" to support a stupid agenda. This draft is widely regarded as a weaker class. There is NO Elite QB prospects, they all have concerns. The top guy in Kizer is being enamored as the top guy today over physical abilities even though he underperformed to expectations...a familiar story that most often leads to NFL scrubs. Come draft time, who knows who the top rated QB will be as combine, interviews, etc always change everything. But the HANDS DOWN best prospects today in this draft are Garrett and Allen with no QB even remotely close. If you rated to 10 best prospects overall in this draft, you would be hard pressed to find many that would include any QB in the top 10. Again, IMO the player to covet from last nights game besides Allen is the guy who bailed out Watson multiple times with insane catches...MIke Williams.
BaaadThingsMan Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Someone earlier talked about so-and-so "moving up the draft boards." So much of that is agents doing their job. Please ask questions why something is happening. Agree,the agents just doing his job, its up to the organizations to do the true vetting. Even then its not an exact science.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 It's still early. Wentz looked good. He was supposed to be a mid 1st rounder at best this time last year. Dak is the truth. Goff is still very young. Lynch is basically unknown. 2015 looked like Winston and nobody else, yet Mariota is legit. Was 2014 a weak class? 1 QB in the top 10, but 2 of them taken later are franchise guys, and Bortles is fringe. 2012 looked like Luck and nobody else, until RG3 tore it up and flew up the rankings. Then there was Wilson. And Tanny. 2011 looked like Cam and nobody else, except for Dalton in the second. Bottom line, there's almost always at least 1 to 2 fringe franchise guys almost every draft. This argument saying it's a "weak QB class" so we shouldn't take anybody are very stupid. This year is no worse than 2016, 2015, or 2014. Outside of the #1 overalls, it's no worse than 2012 and 2011. The 2013 draft was the worst in living memory. Time to stop pretending every draft is the 2013 draft when it comes to QB's. You mean the draft that had a league MVP who set rookie passing and rushing records, and a perennial playoff contender in Dalton? Yeah, the QB's all stunk in that one. Um what are you even talking about with Mariota? He was a top prospect going into that draft, he was considered for #1 overall, and Philly was trying to trade a bounty to get him. Hands down, Mariota (based on draft hype, not NFL performance) would be the top QB in this draft and almost certain #1 overall pick. And funny, in all those drafts you mention, there is someone who was HIGHLY regarded...yet in this draft there is none, just like 2013...hence the comparison. And when we are discussing the draft we are talking ONLY about the draft, not what happened after in the NFL. So when I say it compares to the 2013 draft class, I am SOLELY speaking about going into the draft, not what history will eventually prove out about each prospect. So don't sit here and pretend I am saying that ultimately the QB's in this draft will perform as bad as the 2013 draft. NOBODY knows how peoples careers playout, other wise guys like Brady don't go in the 6th round. But going INTO this draft, its viewed similar to the 2013 class where there is no high level QB prospect nor a consensus best QB in the draft.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Um what are you even talking about with Mariota? He was a top prospect going into that draft, he was considered for #1 overall, and Philly was trying to trade a bounty to get him. Hands down, Mariota (based on draft hype, not NFL performance) would be the top QB in this draft and almost certain #1 overall pick. And funny, in all those drafts you mention, there is someone who was HIGHLY regarded...yet in this draft there is none, just like 2013...hence the comparison. And when we are discussing the draft we are talking ONLY about the draft, not what happened after in the NFL. So when I say it compares to the 2013 draft class, I am SOLELY speaking about going into the draft, not what history will eventually prove out about each prospect. So don't sit here and pretend I am saying that ultimately the QB's in this draft will perform as bad as the 2013 draft. NOBODY knows how peoples careers playout, other wise guys like Brady don't go in the 6th round. But going INTO this draft, its viewed similar to the 2013 class where there is no high level QB prospect nor a consensus best QB in the draft. Watson and Mariota are even Steven imo.
GunnerBill Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Never ceases to amaze me to see all the over reaction on this board after any game. 1. Watson was, and still is, the 3rd rated QB in what is regarded as a weak QB class. 1. Watson was, and still is, absolutely the #1 QB on my board in this class. 2. Is it a weak class? Yes I think depth wise it certainly is. After Watson I have a low first on Trubisky, a second on Kizer and nobody else better than a 4th tho I have not started on Mahomes or Allen yet. I have a higher grade on Watson than any QB in last year's class though. This feels to me a bit more 2015 than 2013 where there was quality at the very top but no depth. 3. People keep referencing Mike Williams as a Mike Evans to Jonny Manziel comparison. I was absolutely on the Evans made Manziel train... Evans was my guy that year (he wouldn't have got to us sadly or else I think the Bills would have stood pat and drafted him). Williams is not Mike Evans. He drops too many balls and in any event he missed the whole if 2015. Which star receivers was Watson throwing to then that were making him look better? Williams is a first round player no doubt. But he did not make Watson. Far, far from it
FireChan Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) Um what are you even talking about with Mariota? He was a top prospect going into that draft, he was considered for #1 overall, and Philly was trying to trade a bounty to get him. Hands down, Mariota (based on draft hype, not NFL performance) would be the top QB in this draft and almost certain #1 overall pick. And funny, in all those drafts you mention, there is someone who was HIGHLY regarded...yet in this draft there is none, just like 2013...hence the comparison. And when we are discussing the draft we are talking ONLY about the draft, not what happened after in the NFL. So when I say it compares to the 2013 draft class, I am SOLELY speaking about going into the draft, not what history will eventually prove out about each prospect. So don't sit here and pretend I am saying that ultimately the QB's in this draft will perform as bad as the 2013 draft. NOBODY knows how peoples careers playout, other wise guys like Brady don't go in the 6th round. But going INTO this draft, its viewed similar to the 2013 class where there is no high level QB prospect nor a consensus best QB in the draft. There was? Bortles was hardly consensus the best. There will never be a draft like 2013 ever again. Period. If you think the first QB off the board will be at pick #16 in 2017, you're delusional. 2013 was historical. This draft has a 2 time Heisman finalist and National Champion MVP. The comparison sucks. Bottom line, most folks saying this draft is weak are afraid of leaving their shrew of a girlfriend. Edited January 10, 2017 by FireChan
Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 1. Watson was, and still is, absolutely the #1 QB on my board in this class. 2. Is it a weak class? Yes I think depth wise it certainly is. After Watson I have a low first on Trubisky, a second on Kizer and nobody else better than a 4th tho I have not started on Mahomes or Allen yet. I have a higher grade on Watson than any QB in last year's class though. This feels to me a bit more 2015 than 2013 where there was quality at the very top but no depth. 3. People keep referencing Mike Williams as a Mike Evans to Jonny Manziel comparison. I was absolutely on the Evans made Manziel train... Evans was my guy that year (he wouldn't have got to us sadly or else I think the Bills would have stood pat and drafted him). Williams is not Mike Evans. He drops too many balls and in any event he missed the whole if 2015. Which star receivers was Watson throwing to then that were making him look better? Williams is a first round player no doubt. But he did not make Watson. Far, far from it I was referencing last nights game about Williams/Watson to Manziel/Evans comparison. I was pointing out that it took 2 insane catches by Williams and another by Cain and I believe one by Legget to make that win possible. All were poorly thrown balls that took highly difficult catches to make...without them making those plays, they don't win. But let me clarify...I already said that if we move on from Taylor, I don't have an issue taking Watson at 10 as anything is better than Cardale and I don't like the other QB prospects. But yesterday, nobody thought it was wise to trade up for any QB in this draft. Today, Watson is now labeled our savior and we must trade a bounty for the guy who has the same question marks today that he did before the game last night about his NFL future. So I am not saying Watson will be a bust, or any QB will be a bust...what I am saying is that people are over reacting to one game.
PolishDave Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Here we go with more TSW non sense. What is your peoples issue with always having to divide and label people? It gets sooooooooo old around here, you can't even discuss something without being labeled a lover or hater of what ever you are talking about. Now apparently I am a TT guy just because I don't think its necessary to tear this team down and rebuild? I don't have any delusions about TT, I know his strengths and weaknesses, but more importantly, I do know we can score with him on the field and that scoring was NOT why we missed the playoffs this year. I also know we challenged last year and this year for a playoff spot late in the season despite all of you saying we had the worst coach in the NFL and we also were missing most of our best players for large parts of each season. So I prefer to add more talent and get our guys healthy and see what this team can do...but that doesn't make me a "TT" guy. I don't push any "narratives" to support a stupid agenda. This draft is widely regarded as a weaker class. There is NO Elite QB prospects, they all have concerns. The top guy in Kizer is being enamored as the top guy today over physical abilities even though he underperformed to expectations...a familiar story that most often leads to NFL scrubs. Come draft time, who knows who the top rated QB will be as combine, interviews, etc always change everything. But the HANDS DOWN best prospects today in this draft are Garrett and Allen with no QB even remotely close. If you rated to 10 best prospects overall in this draft, you would be hard pressed to find many that would include any QB in the top 10. Again, IMO the player to covet from last nights game besides Allen is the guy who bailed out Watson multiple times with insane catches...MIke Williams. Good post! Better ways to spend a number 10 overall pick than on a huge gamble with Watson - who won't even be ready to start next year. If Bills really want to take a QB with their first pick, they should probably trade down to do so like they did the year they drafted EJ. I would rather take the best QB available in the second round or later who is not named Kizer. Hopefully they can get Mahomes later in the draft.
BUFFALOTONE Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 The best player on that field last night was Anderson#22 from Bama. The kid can literally do it all, reminded me of Ed Reed/Polamalu. Can cover and disrupt, always around the ball and hits like a truck. Not sure what is draft status is but that kid is a football player.
GunnerBill Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 So the pro-Watson people are over reacting after one game but you are willing to say Mike Williams bailed him out on the basis of one game? I don't even agree they were all badly thrown balls. A couple of them were placed where Williams had to go up and make a play but the ball was only catchable by him. That is where a QB is supposed to put the ball. Avoiding turnovers is cool and all but eventually when the game is on the line you have put the ball up there, keep it away from the defender but ask your guy to go make a play. I will be clear I am not saying trade up for Watson. I am saying if he is there at 10 we must pick him - Tyrod or no Tyrod.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 There was? Bortles was hardly consensus the best. There will never be a draft like 2013 ever again. Period. If you think the first QB off the board will be at pick #16 in 2017, you're delusional. 2013 was historical. This draft has a 2 time Heisman finalist and National Champion MVP. The comparison sucks. Bottom line, most folks saying this draft is weak are afraid of leaving their shrew of a girlfriend. Geezus, you are over analyzing the comparison...if you read posts you would see how I described the comparison. But keep making it what ever you want to make it as you often do. What you forget is that Bridgewater and Geno were considered to be going anywhere from 1st to 10th. Once again though, you did NOT read. I wrote verbatim the draft hype going INTO the draft...not what history eventually proved out. So once again this nonsense you are writing has nothing to do with what I said. Going into this draft, the buzz around the QB's is similar to the 2013 class where there was no clear QB that was the best prospect, there was no clear idea where a QB would be taken first, and none were that strongly considered to be the #1 pick in the draft. All of this could change before this years draft, but as we sit today the QB needy Browns aren't even a lock to take any of the QB's.
PaattMaann Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 1. Watson was, and still is, absolutely the #1 QB on my board in this class. 2. Is it a weak class? Yes I think depth wise it certainly is. After Watson I have a low first on Trubisky, a second on Kizer and nobody else better than a 4th tho I have not started on Mahomes or Allen yet. I have a higher grade on Watson than any QB in last year's class though. This feels to me a bit more 2015 than 2013 where there was quality at the very top but no depth. 3. People keep referencing Mike Williams as a Mike Evans to Jonny Manziel comparison. I was absolutely on the Evans made Manziel train... Evans was my guy that year (he wouldn't have got to us sadly or else I think the Bills would have stood pat and drafted him). Williams is not Mike Evans. He drops too many balls and in any event he missed the whole if 2015. Which star receivers was Watson throwing to then that were making him look better? Williams is a first round player no doubt. But he did not make Watson. Far, far from it When your done with Mahomes you should publish a separate post on him...bandit and myself are high on him and think he is the direction the Bills should go - especially if we can grab him in the 2nd (I think he is "going to rise" through the draft process...meaning, once scouts and GMs actually start opening up to reporters about their views, its going to be clear these guys like Mahomes)
Alphadawg7 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 So the pro-Watson people are over reacting after one game but you are willing to say Mike Williams bailed him out on the basis of one game? I don't even agree they were all badly thrown balls. A couple of them were placed where Williams had to go up and make a play but the ball was only catchable by him. That is where a QB is supposed to put the ball. Avoiding turnovers is cool and all but eventually when the game is on the line you have put the ball up there, keep it away from the defender but ask your guy to go make a play. I will be clear I am not saying trade up for Watson. I am saying if he is there at 10 we must pick him - Tyrod or no Tyrod. How is me liking Mike Williams an over reaction from last night? I have long been on the Mike Williams train as we need a WR and would love him or Codey at 10. I do think Codey is off the board before we pick as I think he has a slight edge on Mike as the top WR in this draft...but Codey didn't play last night, so the guy I can talk about in regards to who to draft from the game last night is Mike. But my main 2 wants at #10 are either Codey/Williams if we go WR or maybe the Safety Adams (thats assuming we keep both Taylor and Gilmore...losing one or both of those definitely changes draft strategy). When your done with Mahomes you should publish a separate post on him...bandit and myself are high on him and think he is the direction the Bills should go - especially if we can grab him in the 2nd (I think he is "going to rise" through the draft process...meaning, once scouts and GMs actually start opening up to reporters about their views, its going to be clear these guys like Mahomes) This ^^^^ I would much rather take either Codey or Williams (or maybe Adams or a DB) at 10 and grab one of the other QB's (who grade out similar to all the QB's in this draft) in the second...ala Raiders when they took Mack then Carr. Good post! Better ways to spend a number 10 overall pick than on a huge gamble with Watson - who won't even be ready to start next year. If Bills really want to take a QB with their first pick, they should probably trade down to do so like they did the year they drafted EJ. I would rather take the best QB available in the second round or later who is not named Kizer. Hopefully they can get Mahomes later in the draft. Couldn't agree more with all of this.
Direhard Fan Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) Stick with TT and get a good D coach and we will be fine. Keep our acting coach and hire a D coach please. Use our cap money to keep our guys on FA. Keep our team togeather instead of blowing it up please. Thank you Edited January 10, 2017 by Direhard Fan
John from Riverside Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 I think that if we have to trade up for Watson we should do it...... but only after he has been disected to death by the scouts
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