OJ Howard at 10 anyone?

[Augie]

That kind of thinking got us EJ and the Jets Geno Smith... There's too much good stuff in this draft to waste a #1 on a POSSIBLE franchise QB.... Better to load up on talent this year, then pull the trigger in a better draft.

I have to agree with this, though I might add "remotely" to possible. There is no sure thing. Ever. Find a guy you truly believe in, then pull the trigger. Not decide you need one so take a shot.

[#34fan]

I'll settle for OJ Howard, Nate Gerry, and Darreus Rogers... Whoever else they grab in this draft is on them... FYI, I've seen a few mocks that have us taking Corey or OJ,@ 10

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/mock-drafts

 

 

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/26/2017-senior-bowl-did-bills-gm-hint-at-team-taking-one-of-the-great-tes-in-nfl-draft/

[CardinalScotts]

well we wouldnt have to move up to get him- He'll be there but if I'm taking a skill position guy at 10 it's not the TE. If Mike Williams is there I'd take him

Edited January 29, 2017 by CardinalScotts

[34-78-83]

Reading your post, I agree with all of it except for your support of Whaley. Frankly, it's hard to understand because you list GREAT reasons for not liking the job he has done. I consider Whaley a horrible GM for the very reasons that you list. Let's just hope he doesn't grab a DB at 10, or even trade up for one. The Bills need more picks, not less.

 

Btw, if they stay at 10 and get Watson I will be fine with that. You?

You know already that a db at 10 would make a ton of sense. Not that I would like to see that as my 1st option, but don't just dread the idea because that's what Bill from NYC has always done, cuz that's what it would seem like and you are more football savvy than that.

[Kirby Jackson]

You know already that a db at 10 would make a ton of sense. Not that I would like to see that as my 1st option, but don't just dread the idea because that's what Bill from NYC has always done, cuz that's what it would seem like and you are more football savvy than that.

The Patriots start a 1st round DB, a 2nd round DB and a 3rd round DB. The Falcons are starting a 1st round DB and 2 2nd round DBs. In addition, they have a 1st round DB that is out (Trufant). I believe 8 of the 12 playoff teams started a 1st round safety (Joseph, Neal, McCourty, Collins, Clinton-Dix, Berry, Thomas and Byron Jones). Edited January 29, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[3rdand12]

Williams will be gone by the third pick. But if he is there at ten, they should ransom that pick by moving down a few spots, getting a second, and a number one next year

[34-78-83]

The Patriots start a 1st round DB, a 2nd round DB and a 3rd round DB. The Falcons are starting a 1st round DB and 2 2nd round DBs. In addition, they have a 1st round DB that is out (Trufant). I believe 8 of the 12 playoff teams started a 1st round safety (Joseph, Neal, McCourty, Collins, Clinton-Dix, Berry, Thomas and Byron Jones).

Yep that required speed, length, and hip swivel can usually only be found in rd 1. Obviously there are variables like Gilmore being an FA and A Williams a hit away from retirement as well...

[3rdand12]

Bills need DBs.

i read somewhere

 

you cannot draft enough of them

[JohnC]

The Patriots start a 1st round DB, a 2nd round DB and a 3rd round DB. The Falcons are starting a 1st round DB and 2 2nd round DBs. In addition, they have a 1st round DB that is out (Trufant). I believe 8 of the 12 playoff teams started a 1st round safety (Joseph, Neal, McCourty, Collins, Clinton-Dix, Berry, Thomas and Byron Jones).

The overwhelming reason why both teams are in the playoffs is because of their qb play. Each team could completely re-shuffle their defensive backfield lineup and still be in the playoffs if the same respective starting qbs were taking the snaps. Take away the current starting qbs and neither team would be playing in this game. It's not about the cart----it's about the horse.

[Kirby Jackson]

The overwhelming reason why both teams are in the playoffs is because of their qb play. Each team could completely re-shuffle their defensive backfield lineup and still be in the playoffs if the same respective starting qbs were taking the snaps. Take away the current starting qbs and neither team would be playing in this game. It's not about the cart----it's about the horse.

Obviously, QB is most important. Who ever debated that?

 

I'm not sure what that has to do with the fact that teams that have spent valuable resources on DBs have benefited? There used to be a school of thought that it was a bad investment to draft DBs early. That has certainly changed.

[3rdand12]

Obviously, QB is most important. Who ever debated that?

 

I'm not sure what that has to do with the fact that teams that have spent valuable resources on DBs have benefited? There used to be a school of thought that it was a bad investment to draft DBs early. That has certainly changed.

perhap because teams often use five and sometime six more often than the good ole days?

The accent has turned how defense is played.

 

Everyone would love to rush 3 and be able to cover as to rushing 5-6 and hoping

[JohnC]

Obviously, QB is most important. Who ever debated that?

 

I'm not sure what that has to do with the fact that teams that have spent valuable resources on DBs have benefited? There used to be a school of thought that it was a bad investment to draft DBs early. That has certainly changed.

Gilmore is an all-pro level or near that level of player. I would hate to seem him go. But if he did because of cap reasons I'm sure it wouldn't have a significant difference on the competitive level of this team.

 

The school of thought has certainly changed with the rules change and the emphasis on promoting the offense. But my point in my prior post that is that you could change your staffing in the backfield and it wouldn't necessarily change the status of the team. Also, as a prior poster pointed out because more backfield defenders are used there is a greater need from selecting defenders from a quantity standpoint.

Edited January 29, 2017 by JohnC

[Kirby Jackson]

perhap because teams often use five and sometime six more often than the good ole days?

The accent has turned how defense is played.

 

Everyone would love to rush 3 and be able to cover as to rushing 5-6 and hoping

I think that's probably a big part of it. If they have 4 guys out in a route and you send 6, you better have guys that can cover. Not everyone plays that Rex system where you are left to fend for yourself but it is still important.

[3rdand12]

Gilmore is an all-pro level or near that level of player. I would hate to seem him go. But if he did because of cap reasons I'm sure it wouldn't have a significant difference on the competitive level of this team.

 

The school of thought has certainly changed with the rules change and the emphasis on promoting the offense. But my point in my prior post that is that you could change your staffing in the backfield and it wouldn't necessarily change the status of the team. Also, as a prior poster pointed out because more backfield defenders are used there is a greater need from selecting defenders from a quantity standpoint.

They lose Gilmore and the scheme changes to more zone perhaps. which it appears it already will. another reason i think Gillylock is headed south

[Kirby Jackson]

Gilmore is an all-pro level or near that level of player. I would hate to seem him go. But if he did because of cap reasons I'm sure it wouldn't have a significant difference on the competitive level of this team.

 

The school of thought has certainly changed with the rules change and the emphasis on promoting the offense. But my point in my prior post that is that you could change your staffing in the backfield and it wouldn't necessarily change the status of the team. Also, as a prior poster pointed out because more backfield defenders are used there is a greater need from selecting defenders from a quantity standpoint.

I think that you're right that the changes in the rules have been a big reason for the change in draft philosophy. It's not crazy at all to me to think that 20+ DBs will be taken in the 1st 2 rounds of this draft.

 

In terms of Gilmore I go back and forth on what to do. I think that he's a really good player. He may even be a great player. Do you pay a top 10ish guy too 3 money? I don't know the right course of action with him. I know Bandit has suggested signing someone like DRC of Gilmore walks. I think I could get behind that. I don't want to let him go and draft a CB at 10 (I'd be fine with either of the S though).

[JohnC]

They lose Gilmore and the scheme changes to more zone perhaps. which it appears it already will. another reason i think Gillylock is headed south

Carolina may be an enticing destination for him and he would certainly appeal to the Panthers. When they let Josh Norman and his big mouth walk they created a hole. Gilmore would be a good fit for him from a football and close to home standpoint.

[Alphadawg7]

Move Glenn to RT, sign a mid-level WR, draft Howard at 10.

Then defense and a QB project.

Flame away

Better yet trade back and take Howard at 15-17.

Add a pick to rebuild the secondary.

 

I personally would hate this pick and pray he was good enough to prove me wrong.

 

1. We don't need a TE remotely close to how bad we need a WR, S, DB.

2. When was the last time you saw a high draft pick TE live up to expectations? Most recents that come to mind are Eifert who hasn't stayed on the field enough to prove what he can be or not. Then Ebron before him, who is a solid TE but not near what he was projected to be despite playing in a pass happy offense. Pettigrew before him who fell so short of of his expectations that Detroit used another first round pick on a TE not that long after they took him.

3. By no means does being productive in college mean you will be productive in the NFL. However, the last thing I want to see the Bills use their high first round pick on a player who has all this talent or intangibles but is packaged with a list of excuses to why that talent wasn't more productive at the easier College level.

[Kirby Jackson]

Carolina may be an enticing destination for him and he would certainly appeal to the Panthers. When they let Josh Norman and his big mouth walk they created a hole. Gilmore would be a good fit for him from a football and close to home standpoint.

That makes a ton of sense. I believe that the Saints will make a pretty aggressive play as well.

 

I personally would hate this pick and pray he was good enough to prove me wrong.

 

1. We don't need a TE remotely close to how bad we need a WR, S, DB.

2. When was the last time you saw a high draft pick TE live up to expectations? Most recents that come to mind are Eifert who hasn't stayed on the field enough to prove what he can be or not. Then Ebron before him, who is a solid TE but not near what he was projected to be despite playing in a pass happy offense. Pettigrew before him who fell so short of of his expectations that Detroit used another first round pick on a TE not that long after they took him.

3. By no means does being productive in college mean you will be productive in the NFL. However, the last thing I want to see the Bills use their high first round pick on a player who has all this talent or intangibles but is packaged with a list of excuses to why that talent wasn't more productive at the easier College level.

In terms of the other early pick he most often gets compared to Olsen in that he is a complete TE. Most of those other guys were oversized receivers or in Pettigrew's case a blocker. Howard does both. I'm not advocating for him but he can certainly be a valuable asset in the running and passing game.

[JohnC]

I think that you're right that the changes in the rules have been a big reason for the change in draft philosophy. It's not crazy at all to me to think that 20+ DBs will be taken in the 1st 2 rounds of this draft.

 

In terms of Gilmore I go back and forth on what to do. I think that he's a really good player. He may even be a great player. Do you pay a top 10ish guy too 3 money? I don't know the right course of action with him. I know Bandit has suggested signing someone like DRC of Gilmore walks. I think I could get behind that. I don't want to let him go and draft a CB at 10 (I'd be fine with either of the S though).

I'm a Gilmore fan and have been public about it since his selection. As far as I am concerned he has played up to his lofty draft status. He was a top 10 caliber of talent in his draft year. The issue comes down to (as you have noted) does his position warrant top tier money on a team cap stressed when from a value standpoint there are reasonable (not necessarily better) options.

 

It is improbable that he can be replaced from a talent standpoint. But as you noted that a scheme change to zone can compensate for the loss of one of the better man to man cover backs (as you also noted). The Rex defense which emphasis man to man coverage is outdated. The receivers are just too gifted to expect the type of coverage that could contain such special athletes.

 

Your last paragraph perfectly captures my sentiment on this issue.

 

A cold blooded Bill Belichick calculation would not flinch at allowing him to leave and finding an option so that his team can be better balanced from a talent and cap spread standpoint. Or another way of looking at this issue is strategic thinking prevailing over tactical thinking.

[3rdand12]

That makes a ton of sense. I believe that the Saints will make a pretty aggressive play as well.

In terms of the other early pick he most often gets compared to Olsen in that he is a complete TE. Most of those other guys were oversized receivers or in Pettigrew's case a blocker. Howard does both. I'm not advocating for him but he can certainly be a valuable asset in the running and passing game.

should be fun. I think he thinks he is getting paid top dollar soon