pegula equal daniel snyder?

[Jerry Jabber]

Aside from the fact that they both have boatloads of money they couldn't be more different.

 

He & Kim made a mistake in hiring Rex, or at least that's what we're led to believe (and i do believe that they took the lead in the hiring). Aside from that what do you point to? Maybe that they retained Whaley, but, I personally, wasn't ready to see him leave.

The Pegula's have proven to be meddling with the Bills so far. In their first coaching hire, it was a four person committee, which made no sense as it should be the GM's job to hire his coach. Next was the mind boggling rank structure at One Bills Drive, with Rex reporting directly to the owners and not the GM. Next, the owners firing Rex and not having Whaley be involved. Finally, the decision to bench Taylor and start Manuel, which is something the coach should have had say in who he wanted to start for the game.

[Spurna]

Finally, the decision to bench Taylor and start Manuel, which is something the coach should have had say in who he wanted to start for the game.

 

[Meathead]

i really like the pegulas, at least as much as you can tell from the information available. seem to be regular down to earth folks who just happen to be loaded out the gazilles. and i dont even know what a gazille is

 

i dont believe 99% of what bflo sports reporting says so this recent cloak and dagger stuff seems silly to me. i seriously doubt terry and kim are doddering fools unaware of mischievous presidents and conniving gms

 

but the op may, or may not, have a point

 

having the pres, gm, and hc all report directly to him isnt necessarily meddling if its handled right. if he hires good mgt talent and lets them do their thang then its fine. if hes vetoing decisions, or worse just making them proactively, then hes meddling

 

unless of course he happens to be really really good at football matters. then his meddling becomes architechture and direction, two jobs normally handled by a pres and gm. but when have we ever seen that work? al davis is the closest example i can think of, and he fubared plenty. until interestingly he turned into skelator and suddenly he started to make things work. but that didnt last long bc he didnt last long after that. but he did a good job once he became master of his universe

 

so is terry a meddler? too early to tell. but there are some warning signs. theres a steady stream of reports that hes influenced some of the big decisions. even with my skepticism of the press, these reports have to be considered plausible and checked over time and then matched with a pattern

 

we already know they personally made the ryan selection. whaley allegedly advised against it. personally i think they could have made the rexy era work, but they didnt, and that counts as strike one

 

they also allegedly were behind the push to release freddie. even though i strongly agree with that call, if they did that against football mgt advice it would probably count as strike two. lets face it, freddie wasnt going to contribute much at that point, except maybe a third down role that blocked even more than it ran. if the hc and/or gm wanted freddie to stick mainly for his leadership and keep an often undisciplined team on track, then that could have been a golden decision by the football guys. the pegulas overriding that decision would indeed be meddling and strike two

 

i have less confidence in that second one than the first, but there have been others. so we cant tell if it meddling or not yet, but there is a basis for concern

[Jerry Jabber]

 

Oh god, bringing back the nightmare that hasn't gone away for 17 years!

 

Seriously, great example of why the owners need to let their GM's and coaches do their jobs and not interfere. That decision by Ralph cost the Bills a trip to the Super Bowl.

[26CornerBlitz]

The Pegula's have proven to be meddling with the Bills so far. In their first coaching hire, it was a four person committee, which made no sense as it should be the GM's job to hire his coach. Next was the mind boggling rank structure at One Bills Drive, with Rex reporting directly to the owners and not the GM. Next, the owners firing Rex and not having Whaley be involved. Finally, the decision to bench Taylor and start Manuel, which is something the coach should have had say in who he wanted to start for the game.

 

While I agree with you that GMs should make the call on coaching hires, it's not unheard of for an owner to make the call with a coach reporting directly to him/her. As to whether Whaley was involved in Rex getting canned, we know from Pegula's AP interview that Whaley was involved in conversations all season long that led to the ultimate decision. The business decision to sit Taylor down made perfect sense and the Bills would have rightfully been roasted if he played and went on to sustain an injury that would have obligated them to pay out the injury guarantee. Sorry, but these are weak arguments you present.

 

 

 

Playoff game with everything on the line vs. a meaningless end of season game with the potential of having to guarantee $30M to a player who you may or may not want. Yeah. Great comparison.

[BuffaloFan68]

Not even close - completely off-base comparison. Another ridiculously dumb thread IMO.

[JohnC]

The Pegula's have proven to be meddling with the Bills so far. In their first coaching hire, it was a four person committee, which made no sense as it should be the GM's job to hire his coach. Next was the mind boggling rank structure at One Bills Drive, with Rex reporting directly to the owners and not the GM. Next, the owners firing Rex and not having Whaley be involved. Finally, the decision to bench Taylor and start Manuel, which is something the coach should have had say in who he wanted to start for the game.

With respect to the highlighted area I don't know if the Pegulas' or Whaley were most involved in the benching of TT in the last game. Regardless, it was the right decision. It was a meaningless game in which if TT got seriously hurt there would have been a needless financial loss on a player who may not even be back next year.

 

As it turned out TT was playing hurt with an abdominal injury that resulted in surgery immediately after the season. What would be the point in risking a more serious injury in a meaningless game? From a career standpoint it was in TT's interest not to play and risk a more serious injury. So the bottom line was that the TT sit down was the right thing for the organization and the right thing for the player.

 

You pointed out that Whaley had no knowledge that the owner was going to fire the coach. Rex the magnificent mouth asked the owner prior to the Jet game that if he was going to be fired after the season finished that he just should do it now before the game. So the owner did it. You don't think that Whaley wasn't happy that his HC was fired? Anyone who believes that after an post season assessment was done that this clownish HC was not going to be dispatched didn't watch the games. Rex was going to be fired either sooner or later for due cause. Stupendous incompetence is not easy to hide!

 

Ultimately the owner has the final say. On this issue of whether Whaley was involved or not or to what extent he was involved it is a fruitless discussion because what is said in private between the parties involved is usually not stated in public for diplomatic reasons.

 

No question the situation in Buffalo was messy. But the bottom line is in the end the right decisions were made. The boisterous coach was relieved of his duties, and rightly so, and Whaley's line of authority was more clearly established, and rightly so.

[Jerry Jabber]

With respect to the highlighted area I don't know if the Pegulas' or Whaley were most involved in the benching of TT in the last game. Regardless, it was the right decision. It was a meaningless game in which if TT got seriously hurt there would have been a needless financial loss on a player who may not even be back next year.

 

As it turned out TT was playing hurt with an abdominal injury that resulted in surgery immediately after the season. What would be the point in risking a more serious injury in a meaningless game? From a career standpoint it was in TT's interest not to play and risk a more serious injury. So the bottom line was that the TT sit down was the right thing for the organization and the right thing for the player.

 

You pointed out that Whaley had no knowledge that the owner was going to fire the coach. Rex the magnificent mouth asked the owner prior to the Jet game that if he was going to be fired after the season finished that he just should do it now before the game. So the owner did it. You don't think that Whaley wasn't happy that his HC was fired? Anyone who believes that after an post season assessment was done that this clownish HC was not going to be dispatched didn't watch the games. Rex was going to be fired either sooner or later for due cause. Stupendous incompetence is not easy to hide!

 

Ultimately the owner has the final say. On this issue of whether Whaley was involved or not or to what extent he was involved it is a fruitless discussion because what is said in private between the parties involved is usually not stated in public for diplomatic reasons.

 

No question the situation in Buffalo was messy. But the bottom line is in the end the right decisions were made. The boisterous coach was relieved of his duties, and rightly so, and Whaley's line of authority was more clearly established, and rightly so.

I completely understand why the decision was made to bench TT in the finale, due to the injury stipulation in his contract. Now it's being reported that the Pegula's are having remorse for not letting Anthony Lynn have the choice on who he wanted as his starting QB in the season finale.

 

In regards to the power structure at OBD, the way things have gone down there, it sends a negative vibe throughout the league about the organization. With that negative vibe, it will turn off a lot of good coaches and players from coming to Buffalo as it shows the Bills are a dysfunctional organization.

[Sisyphean Bills]

and Whaley's line of authority was more clearly established, and rightly so.

 

Have to disagree with that. "What is your job?" wasn't asked because Whaley's responsibility is crystal clear. Whaley will be "overseeing" the hiring of the next head coach. But then even that was qualified. The interview will have the Pegulas and Monos sitting right there as well. And nobody knows what the reporting structure may look like. And Schefter reports the new HC will have even more power than Rex did.

 

Clarity is a stretch.

[Jerry Jabber]

 

Have to disagree with that. "What is your job?" wasn't asked because Whaley's responsibility is crystal clear. Whaley will be "overseeing" the hiring of the next head coach. But then even that was qualified. The interview will have the Pegulas and Monos sitting right there as well. And nobody knows what the reporting structure may look like. And Schefter reports the new HC will have even more power than Rex did.

 

Clarity is a stretch.

+1

[Cripple Creek]

It depends what rumors you believe, really. His name floated around the Fred Jackson thing and a couple other decisions i believe. Also that he kind of bypassed the coaches to get to the locker room.

 

All easily explained but could likewise easily be symptomatic of being a frustrating owner to have. I don't think we know which but I don't think it's a crazy off-season discussion at this point

There are no "ifs" is Snyder is involved and that was the comparison. It doesn't fit.

[JohnC]

I completely understand why the decision was made to bench TT in the finale, due to the injury stipulation in his contract. Now it's being reported that the Pegula's are having remorse for not letting Anthony Lynn have the choice on who he wanted as his starting QB in the season finale.

 

In regards to the power structure at OBD, the way things have gone down there, it sends a negative vibe throughout the league about the organization. With that negative vibe, it will turn off a lot of good coaches and players from coming to Buffalo as it shows the Bills are a dysfunctional organization.

Lynn would have been a fool if he didn't want TT to start in the Jet game because it unquestionably would have given him the best chance to win. But in this case it wasn't the right thing to do for the organization. Whether it was a Whaley or owner decision or a collaboration it wasn't the right decision for the franchise.

 

There is no doubt that the Bills' franchise has been considered a dysfunctional franchise because it is basically true. You can't acquire its historical record of failure without a history of ineptitude in the front office and prior ownership involvement. But let's look at what is currently going on without being worried about the perception. The organization got rid of a buffoonish HC who was not going to make things better. Stopping the bleeding is not solution but it is a start. Giving the GM a clear status of authority, no matter what one thinks of him, is the right thing to do from an organizational standpoint. Those are positive steps. Although done in a climate of lamenting from the fan base and media (which is understandable after another season of disappointment) the bottom line is that these decisions are the right decisions. That's the point! Those decisions are reasons to be optimistic ---not fret over.

 

If you want the GM and coaching staff to become instantly smart and the ownership to become instantly wise there is a quick pathway to that desire. As a pugnacious and irascible and irritable and sometimes prickly sage named badol has often stated : Get a good qb and the many wrongs will be quickly made right!

[Cripple Creek]

The Pegula's have proven to be meddling with the Bills so far. In their first coaching hire, it was a four person committee, which made no sense as it should be the GM's job to hire his coach. Next was the mind boggling rank structure at One Bills Drive, with Rex reporting directly to the owners and not the GM. Next, the owners firing Rex and not having Whaley be involved. Finally, the decision to bench Taylor and start Manuel, which is something the coach should have had say in who he wanted to start for the game.

I mention Rex in my post.

 

Sitting Taylor was the correct decision for the organization. Lynn should have been involved, but, he should not have had final say IMO. That was a bigger decision than one you leave to an interim coach. Still, that's two things you've mentioned. Go back and look at Snyder's first 3-4 seasons in Washington. He made more news than the team...the Pegulas, whatever warts they have, do not approach Snyder. Anyone thinking this needs to go revisit his his tenure.

[hondo in seattle]

how long will it take pegula to realize he is in over his head? dan snyder...redskins owner...still doesn't get it..imo.

 

My thoughts:

 

* The Pegulas have something like a .500 record since buying the Bills. Mere neophytes, they're performing right about average for NFL owners. In fact, they're already outperforming several owners with much more experience. Just imagine when the Pegulas learn from their experience and get good at this!

 

* We have no idea what's happening behind closed doors. Much of the information in the media is wrong. If we worked with the Pegulas on a day-in, day-out basis, I'm pretty sure we'd have a much different impression than we have now. It's pretentious/naive/arrogant of us to evaluate them with so little accurate information.

 

* Many/most people who say the Pegulas are "clueless," "over their heads," and the like have no experience running multi-million dollar organizations and don't know the first thing about organizational leadership. Yet they feel competent to judge. (Not meant for the OP whose credentials I don't know).

 

* None of us like it when people with no professional expertise and little actual knowledge criticize our ability at our professions. It's just rude. So why do we do it to Terry and Kim?

 

* It's been two years. The Pegulas biggest mistake was that they hired the wrong head coach. While some of the posters here may have felt differently, a lot of players, coaches, and media gurus predicted success for Rex in Buffalo. In retrospect it was clearly a bad decision, but - given Rex's reputation in some circles - it was an understandable decision. It wasn't just the Pegulas who liked Rex - if we hadn't hired him, some other team would have.

 

* The Pegulas overpaid to keep the Bills in Buffalo. They'll have to make a lot of mistakes before I feel it's okay to criticize them. For me, it's way, way premature.

[JohnC]

 

Have to disagree with that. "What is your job?" wasn't asked because Whaley's responsibility is crystal clear. Whaley will be "overseeing" the hiring of the next head coach. But then even that was qualified. The interview will have the Pegulas and Monos sitting right there as well. And nobody knows what the reporting structure may look like. And Schefter reports the new HC will have even more power than Rex did.

 

Clarity is a stretch.

I respectfully disagree. Whaley is the main driver in this hiring process. Monos works under Whaley and they certainly collaborate with Whaley being the higher authority. The owner has the final say to the ranking of the candidates. All the people you described being in the interview room should be in the room.

 

As you know pure clarity in any complex organization is a textbook fiction that doesn't exist in the real world. As far as the issue of who the HC reports to I'm not bothered by the fuzziness of the lines because there should be constant communication between all these parties.

 

On the issue of Rex and the lines of communication for him let me put it bluntly: When you hire an incompetent buffoon you should expect chaos, confusion, finger pointing and a lack of willingness to be held accountable. The owner made a grievous mistake when he hired this obnoxious fraud. Now he is trying to have a more professional process. For that I praise him.

Edited January 8, 2017 by JohnC

[26CornerBlitz]

The problem is not with Tyrod, but with the person(s) who wrote up that ridiculous contract.

He/they deserve to be fired.

Tyrod deserves to come back for another year, as any other QB out there would be a lateral move, at best.

The Bills, unfortunately are painted into a corner with the $30M cap hit.

..So stupid, and shortsighted to structure the deal in that manner, but that is what we get with this current regime.

 

You misunderstand. It's not a $30M cap hit, instead, that's the guaranteed money. In fact, if he were to be retained via franchise tag the cost would have been much more in 2017.

[boater]

The Pegula's have proven to be meddling with the Bills so far. In their first coaching hire, it was a four person committee, which made no sense as it should be the GM's job to hire his coach. Next was the mind boggling rank structure at One Bills Drive, with Rex reporting directly to the owners and not the GM. Next, the owners firing Rex and not having Whaley be involved. Finally, the decision to bench Taylor and start Manuel, which is something the coach should have had say in who he wanted to start for the game.

Normally.. Coach making the decision is correct.

 

However... when 27 million is on the line for one potential Tyrod slip up/injury; it is perfectly understandable for the Owners to over-rule.

 

People make it sound so easy to when it's Other Peoples Money (OPM). But if it were your money--you'd do the same thing Pegs did.

 

Pegs was pretty open to the fiscal loss associated with firing Rex. I can certainly empathize with him not wanting to take the red ink as a habit. He didn't get rich by being an idiot with his money. And we wouldn't have the Bills without his business acumen.

The problem is not with Tyrod, but with the person(s) who wrote up that ridiculous contract.

He/they deserve to be fired.

Tyrod deserves to come back for another year, as any other QB out there would be a lateral move, at best.

The Bills, unfortunately are painted into a corner with the $30M cap hit.

..So stupid, and shortsighted to structure the deal in that manner, but that is what we get with this current regime.

This. You'd figure after 50+ years in business, the Bills would have pretty tight boiler plate contracts.

 

Deep Throat at the Noco told me: the dude who wrote Tyrod's contract also wrote the Affordable Care Act.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I really have doubts that DW wasn't involved. IMO there were discussions between Pegs and DW about getting rid of Rex at year end, but no clear decision had been made, so technically what DW stated was completely true. If the rumors are true that Rex was more a Peg's hire than DW, then I think it may have been more a case of Peg's telling DW, I got us into this by my choice to hirie him so I'll take the heat to fire him. The way the Bills announced it put heat on everyone.

 

As far as benching TT, if it was due to the injury clause, then I think the front office should be the one making that call, particularly if at that point, you're not certain the HC would be back for the following season.

 

 

The Pegula's have proven to be meddling with the Bills so far. In their first coaching hire, it was a four person committee, which made no sense as it should be the GM's job to hire his coach. Next was the mind boggling rank structure at One Bills Drive, with Rex reporting directly to the owners and not the GM. Next, the owners firing Rex and not having Whaley be involved. Finally, the decision to bench Taylor and start Manuel, which is something the coach should have had say in who he wanted to start for the game.

[Just in Atlanta]

Jerry Sullivan takes a dislike in everyone on his first meeting.

 

Jerry Sullivan took a dislike of them in their first meeting.

[Dr. Who]

Jerry Sullivan takes a dislike in everyone on his first meeting.

 

It's probably a mutual thing.