Niagara Bill Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 Why would anyone want Hoyer, he couldn;t help flippin Cleveland. As for Cutler he is the biggest coward and flake in the NFL, has anyone actuallt watched him Bears fans hate him, he is fragile, cannot take a hit, throws more interceptions than any starter. There are few QBs in the NFL that are available better than TT. He is the best we have had in a generation. Not good enough, but the best for a long time. No other QB on our rooster in the past 15 years could you feel may continue development and survive the third season. He is past the dreaded 2nd starting year and was at least as good as the first. He is durable. Give the team an O line and a coach and let him stay and do the job.
GunnerBill Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 Why would anyone want Hoyer, he couldn;t help flippin Cleveland. Wrong. Cleveland couldn't help him. In 16 games as a starter he went 10-6. That's right... a Cleveland starting Quarterback with a winning record and they ditched him for Jonny freakin' Manziel because the owner wanted to see his boy play. He started 3 games in 2013 before tearing his ACL against the Bills and Cleveland went 3-0 in those games. Then in 2014 he got them off to a 7-4 start, had two poor games (including one against the Bills) as they dropped to 7-6 and then was benched. It was one of the worst decisions the Browns have made in the last two decades.... and that is saying something. There are few QBs in the NFL that are available better than TT. He is the best we have had in a generation. Not good enough, but the best for a long time. No other QB on our rooster in the past 15 years could you feel may continue development and survive the third season. He is past the dreaded 2nd starting year and was at least as good as the first. He is durable. Give the team an O line and a coach and let him stay and do the job. I'm not sure there are any available who are "better" than Tyrod with the exception of Romo. I don't, however, think his 2nd year was at least as good as his first.... I think there was a slight regression. I also repeat that our line wasn't the problem. He had the longest time to throw of any starting Quarterback in the league. He holds the ball too long. If there is one thing that we could give Tyrod (if despite the stories we keep him) to help take his game on to the next level in year 3 it is a healthy Sammy Watkins and a second major threat on the outside.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 Wrong. Cleveland couldn't help him. In 16 games as a starter he went 10-6. That's right... a Cleveland starting Quarterback with a winning record and they ditched him for Jonny freakin' Manziel because the owner wanted to see his boy play. He started 3 games in 2013 before tearing his ACL against the Bills and Cleveland went 3-0 in those games. Then in 2014 he got them off to a 7-4 start, had two poor games (including one against the Bills) as they dropped to 7-6 and then was benched. It was one of the worst decisions the Browns have made in the last two decades.... and that is saying something. Hoyer did do well in Cleveland. But then who could forget the Houston-Chiefs playoff game last January? 4 INTs, 136 yds, "get this guy out of here!" from a teammate. I'm not sure our line wasn't "a" problem. Taylor does hold the ball a long time, but OL grading by various systems does show our line is significantly worse at pass protection than run blocking. What I can't tell about how long he holds the ball is what is the passing game design, and what is the play supposed to look like? Mike Martz designed a passing game where part of the play, by design, was to hold the ball a long time for receivers to come open downfield. It was partly responsible for wearing out Kurt Warner, for degrading Marc Bulger, and for putting a lot of miles on Jay Cutler. The closest successful passing game today is Green Bay. Rodgers is noted for hanging on to the ball for 8-9 seconds at times while he weaves in and out of bodies, before hurling it into what seems like impossibly small windows for TDs. Bulaga is amazing. Anyway, at times I see open guys and Taylor is still hanging onto the ball - still a problem that at times instead of stepping up into a lane he rolls out and the open guy is blocked from him. Sometimes there is no pocket to step into, though. At times I feel as though he's trying to extend the play in the hopes separation will develop a la Martz/GB. I keep coming back to the Trent Dilfer commentary that Taylor's eyes and feet don't match what's going on downfield, and he seemed to feel it had to do with the design of the passing game and possibly how Taylor is being coached to play. But I don't know.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Hoyer did do well in Cleveland. But then who could forget the Houston-Chiefs playoff game last January? 4 INTs, 136 yds, "get this guy out of here!" from a teammate. I'm not sure our line wasn't "a" problem. Taylor does hold the ball a long time, but OL grading by various systems does show our line is significantly worse at pass protection than run blocking. What I can't tell about how long he holds the ball is what is the passing game design, and what is the play supposed to look like? Mike Martz designed a passing game where part of the play, by design, was to hold the ball a long time for receivers to come open downfield. It was partly responsible for wearing out Kurt Warner, for degrading Marc Bulger, and for putting a lot of miles on Jay Cutler. The closest successful passing game today is Green Bay. Rodgers is noted for hanging on to the ball for 8-9 seconds at times while he weaves in and out of bodies, before hurling it into what seems like impossibly small windows for TDs. Bulaga is amazing. Anyway, at times I see open guys and Taylor is still hanging onto the ball - still a problem that at times instead of stepping up into a lane he rolls out and the open guy is blocked from him. Sometimes there is no pocket to step into, though. At times I feel as though he's trying to extend the play in the hopes separation will develop a la Martz/GB. I keep coming back to the Trent Dilfer commentary that Taylor's eyes and feet don't match what's going on downfield, and he seemed to feel it had to do with the design of the passing game and possibly how Taylor is being coached to play. But I don't know. He had good numbers for a few weeks this year.... Then he got hurt. Wrong. Cleveland couldn't help him. In 16 games as a starter he went 10-6. That's right... a Cleveland starting Quarterback with a winning record and they ditched him for Jonny freakin' Manziel because the owner wanted to see his boy play. He started 3 games in 2013 before tearing his ACL against the Bills and Cleveland went 3-0 in those games. Then in 2014 he got them off to a 7-4 start, had two poor games (including one against the Bills) as they dropped to 7-6 and then was benched. It was one of the worst decisions the Browns have made in the last two decades.... and that is saying something. Over a 3 game period in 2014 he threw 0 TD's and 7 INT's. They were 7-8, and he was a UFA after the year. They played their rookie after they got eliminated from the playoffs... That's the worst decision they've made? Not drafting Manziel? Or gilbert? Or mingo? If we walk from Tyrod, and bring in Hoyer I'll understand why we did it. But in no way would i be even slightly excited. It doesn't preach continuity, i don't know if it really preaches anything other than spinning the wheels. Edited January 9, 2017 by dneveu
bisonbrigade Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 I would rather have EJ back as QB to guarantee a top four pick in 2018 to draft a franchise QB.
PatsFanNH Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 Hoyer is a GREAT backup and a good stop gap for a year MAYBE two. He will make the easy throws but don't expect him to carry a team to victory on his arm alone.
nucci Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 Hoyer is a GREAT backup and a good stop gap for a year MAYBE two. He will make the easy throws but don't expect him to carry a team to victory on his arm alone. How can someone be a great backup if they suck when they play?
PatsFanNH Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 How can someone be a great backup if they suck when they play? Simple you expect them be good enough to win 2 or 3 games by playing within themselves and not making big mistakes.
GunnerBill Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Over a 3 game period in 2014 he threw 0 TD's and 7 INT's. They were 7-8, and he was a UFA after the year. They played their rookie after they got eliminated from the playoffs... That's the worst decision they've made? Not drafting Manziel? Or gilbert? Or mingo? If we walk from Tyrod, and bring in Hoyer I'll understand why we did it. But in no way would i be even slightly excited. It doesn't preach continuity, i don't know if it really preaches anything other than spinning the wheels. They were 7-6 when they benched Hoyer, not 7-8. They benched him with 3 games remaining. I accept Hoyer replacing Tyrod is not exciting for 2017. It would not be a move intended to be. It would be about not paying a caretaker massive money while we draft guys to be the long term answer. Whether that is a Watson this year or a Darnold next. What strikes me as really spinning wheels is constantly trying to reload and build excitement for the year immediately ahead. Eventually this team has to start looking at the long term. As I keep saying if we could find a way to make Tyrod's deal another 1 year type with a cheap out in 2017 I'd be totally in favour of keeping him on. Three years of Tyrod is, to me, spinning wheels even though I totally agree he is the best we have had since the first year of Bledsoe. Edited January 9, 2017 by GunnerBill
White Linen Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 Simple you expect them be good enough to win 2 or 3 games by playing within themselves and not making big mistakes. That's not exactly what we need right now.
PatsFanNH Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 That's not exactly what we need right now. I also said he is a stop gap, that is if you believe you have your QB of the future but need a year to get him up to speed.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) If we don't keep Tyrod we need a veteran presence to compete with Cardale or a potential draft pick. Hoyer is injury prone but has shown some positive things when healthy. QB rating in the 90's in 17 starts the last two years with 25 TD's to 7 INT's. 4 starts this year, before breaking his arm early in his 5th start vs GB. 4 full games games, all over 300 yards passing, 3 games with 2 TD's, no picks. He got his shot with Cleveland, Houston, and Chicago. Not exactly juggernaut offenses. Stat line is trending up fast. I would love to bring Hoyer into the competition. Here is the issue with bringing in Hoyer, and this is a BIG issue. He isn't going to be good enough for us to matter enough, and he isnt going to be bad enough for us to rebuild and draft an Elite QB prospect. Therefore there is no value in him to this team, so why bring him in? If we move on from Taylor, there is no future franchise QB available to replace him with. That means, our future is tied to either Cardale (who wasn't good enough to be a starter in college for the very team he helped win a National Championship for in filling in late the season before) or some QB in this draft where there are no Elite QB prospects, much like the EJ draft year. That means, we need to target our future franchise QB potentially in the 2018 draft class and if Hoyer is our QB, we wont lose enough to draft high enough to have a shot at the best prospects of the class. The goal in the NFL is to win the SB, and Hoyer might help us squeak into the playoffs, but we will not ever contend for a SB with him. So we will still need to find our franchise guy to ever matter in the near future, and he also wont suck enough for us to have a shot at the best prospects coming out. Yes, we can find a QB anywhere in the draft, but the odds of them being a good or better NFL QB are much higher with high level QB prospects near or at the top of the draft. Conclusion...either keep Taylor who we can win with, especially if our D improves under a better coach and system or we go all in on sucking and let the ship sink as much as possible next year under Cardale so we can target an Elite QB prospect the following year. Although, if we don't keep TT, I do think Watson may be our pick with the 10th pick which would suck as he is similar to TT and we could have used that pick on a player of need and just kept TT in the first place. Edited January 9, 2017 by Alphadawg7
msw2112 Posted January 9, 2017 Posted January 9, 2017 Food for thought: Hoyer = Fitzpatrick (= McCown, etc.) A solid veteran QB who had been around the league. Quality guy, good teammate and citizen. He's good enough to flash for a few games and put up some great numbers. Wins a few games. Smart, can grasp an offense and read a defense. Decent mobility and some arm strength. You think you have your guy. Then, the inevitable happens. They regress to the mean, and that's it. The interceptions start, the losses start, they guy gets benched for a younger, cheaper option. The team moves on, they go to a new team, get an opportunity, get hot, flash again, and then the inevitable happens again. Lather, rinse, repeat. I don't love Tyrod, but if they can renegotiate his deal, I would keep him around while they develop Jones and draft another young QB. I think he's a better option than Hoyer.
BILLS55 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Everyone is missing the real issue here an that is the money. Yes Hoyer is not an upgrade or even equal but if he can do 90% of what Tyrod can do at 1/2 the price Whaley will jump on it to free up cap space. If it allowed us to sign other guys we not be able to if we kept Taylor and there was not a better option at QB I might be on board.
Adam Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 not good enough for playoffs nor Tank, but would make a solid back up. That was a knock on Orton too, and he was pretty solid
JohnBonhamRocks Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Definitely on board for signing Hoyer, and that does not change whether or not we keep Taylor and/or draft a QB. I'd love to see a depth chart at QB of: Taylor, Hoyer, Jones, draft pick. Hoyer is a solid veteran backup who has shown he can be successful. Don't sign him to be your starting QB, but sign him.
John from Riverside Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Hoyer becomes a option IF Tyrod is released if that happens it probably ends up Hoyer....a draft pick till they are ready....and C. Jones being the wild card
BillsFan130 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Never been a fan of hoyer. Good back up, but that is about it
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