Sisyphean Bills Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 To take it a step further it's especially mind-numbing when the GM's job is clearly on the line. Head-scratcher. Has EJM's agent been working on a low basis deal?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Chris Trapasso Retweeted Sarah Barshop @sarahbarshop 8m8 minutes ago Sarah Barshop Retweeted Sarah Barshop Since 2010, the only teams to win a playoff game without a 3,000-yard passer or 1,000-yard receiver were Broncos (Tebow) and Texans in 2011. So you're saying we were hampered by our receivers?
Reed83HOF Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) So you're saying we were hampered by our receivers? Nope...was just providing more information for this thread in regards that passing game is somewhat important. That being said, TTs inaccuracy does hang his WRs out to dry... Edited January 7, 2017 by Reed83HOF
GunnerBill Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Would Paxton Lynch have been a worse choice...in retrospect.....than that game-changer Shaq Lawson? Even if Shaq reaches his ceiling his impact would be a fraction of a good QB. I agree with the principle. But I really didn't like Lynch. I still think it has to come down to talent evaluation not just the consensus next QB. I had Connor Cook ranked higher as a pro prospect. I am excited to see him play tonight I think he is gonna be a nice surprise to many. Lynch has shown me nothing in limited snaps so far (though I am not writing him off at this stage). Ironically I had Dak rated almost the same as Lynch (high 3rd) now if we had taken Dak at #19 I'd have said at the time "too reachy for me" and now would be eating humble pie. So there are swings and roundabouts. I know you would take one with your 1st every year until you have one. I am not there but I think you have to prioritise finding your QB in the 1st round of the draft. This year for me falls into "not a trade up year but we should pick one if they fall to us".
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Nope...was just providing more information for this thread in regards that passing game is somewhat important. That being said, TTs inaccuracy does hang his WRs out to dry... You know he had 3k yards, right? The tweet would imply that receivers were an issue as Woods was the closest with 613. We did have a 1,000 yard rusher though, not sure how that factors in.
Andrew Son Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Based on the games that I've watched, not highlight films, I say trubisky busts. Looks the part, and has all the tools, but I don't think he's a quick processor.
K-9 Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 You really aren't going to do much better than that with the (s)crap(s) we go after... Trubisky is the only one I would look at in the first....but I am not sure I would pass up on Hooker if he was there at 10... What would your expectation be of Trubisky in terms of development?
Virgil Posted January 7, 2017 Author Posted January 7, 2017 If the decision is already made, I'm incredibly frustrated. I understand if you think TT has reached his cap, but I agree with many others of not having a plan B. It was worse without Tyrod. Ultimately, it's the head coaches decision. So why is it happening now? If this was after we had our coach and he made the call, I'm still unhappy, but I'll also have blind faith in the plan
Reed83HOF Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 You know he had 3k yards, right? The tweet would imply that receivers were an issue as Woods was the closest with 613. We did have a 1,000 yard rusher though, not sure how that factors in. Yes I do - still don't think TT is good enough though - his inability to use the middle of the field allows the defenses to take away what he does like (outside the hash marks). Once the running game is taken away; we are super easy to defend. The QB needs to be able to use the entire field and not just a portion of it. I don't want to turn this into another TT limitation thread since that has been covered all over the place... Our WRs are not great and we really miss a legit #2 (Woods is more of a slot WRs type player IMO); TT's accuracy is not as bad a lets say Fitz, but the ball placement can be an issue - same was true with EJ; they expose the WRs to way too many hits, which leads to injuries. Whether people like Sammy or not he is a legit #1 and should be up near the top of the league in receiving - it is a waste of his career if we aren't going to throw him the damn ball - also a waste of what we gave up to get him.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Yes I do - still don't think TT is good enough though - his inability to use the middle of the field allows the defenses to take away what he does like (outside the hash marks). Once the running game is taken away; we are super easy to defend. The QB needs to be able to use the entire field and not just a portion of it. I don't want to turn this into another TT limitation thread since that has been covered all over the place... Our WRs are not great and we really miss a legit #2 (Woods is more of a slot WRs type player IMO); TT's accuracy is not as bad a lets say Fitz, but the ball placement can be an issue - same was true with EJ; they expose the WRs to way too many hits, which leads to injuries. Whether people like Sammy or not he is a legit #1 and should be up near the top of the league in receiving - it is a waste of his career if we aren't going to throw him the damn ball - also a waste of what we gave up to get him. Agree on not making it a redundant conversation, and I don't disagree with most of what you said, honestly. I will say, though, that Sammy missed 9 weeks this year and still finished 5th on the team for targets. I think Lynn emphasized him a bit better than Roman did in the past.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 If the decision is already made, I'm incredibly frustrated. I understand if you think TT has reached his cap, but I agree with many others of not having a plan B. It was worse without Tyrod. Ultimately, it's the head coaches decision. So why is it happening now? If this was after we had our coach and he made the call, I'm still unhappy, but I'll also have blind faith in the plan A penny saved is a penny earned? Seriously though, isn't this supposed to be the worst draft for QBs since ... well, we took EJM?
Kirby Jackson Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 A penny saved is a penny earned? Seriously though, isn't this supposed to be the worst draft for QBs since ... well, we took EJM? Yep
BADOLBILZ Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Mind numbing to where I'll skip on going to any games next year. I will be going to the stadium area but we are already planning on it becoming an ALL DAY tailgate. Thanks to the blackout lift.......the game is ALWAYS on.........and the HD picture off the antenna is actually better than the Directv feed........and we've got 5 star quality food and drink .....plus Pizza Oven sweet-sauced pizza with the cup and char pepperoni and better freshly prepared wings than Duff's or Bar-Bill. Could be a good revenue opportunity for Hammer..........put up some tv's and allow food vendors to set up on site.
What a Tuel Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) $40 mill is what is guaranteed if he stays for two years. It's guaranteed if he's still on the roster in March 2018. Guaranteed means the player absolutely will receive the money. If the player receives the money in any form it goes, without exception, on the salary cap. In this case, it would go on the cap for the third year. He would be on the When you're calculating the impact of a contract, you don't ignore some of the impact because it falls on a year you'd rather not talk about. You calculate the entire impact. If he stays for two years, the entire impact would be $40.5 mill. In exchange we'd get two years of the performance of Tyrod Taylor. It is a $15.4 million option bonus. You don't roll all 5 years into 2 years and make the assumption we cut him after 2. Yes, they would owe that money if they cut him after 2 years, but when picking up the contract they will owe him: 2017 $15.9 (including $3.1 option bonus) (+ possible incentives) 2018 $16.7 (including $3.1 option bonus) (+ possible incentives) 2019 $17.3 (including $3.1 option bonus) (+ possible incentives) 2020 $17.6 (including $3.1 option bonus) (+ possible incentives) 2021 $17.6 (including $3.1 option bonus) (+ possible incentives) If you are going to say we are cutting him after year 2 then why not say we are cutting him after year 1, and will owe him $30 million for 1 year? That's awfully misleading, especially for the masses who don't look too deep into it. (Edit: And by "owe him" I fully realize they pay him the bonus money upfront, but in the eyes of the salary cap, it is spread out) Edited January 7, 2017 by What a Tuel
Reed83HOF Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) What would your expectation be of Trubisky in terms of development? Just remember I expect us to take a step back this year regardless if we have TT or not... He is a one year starter and has a lot of room for growth; also I'm not sure you can't start him right away either - he needs to put time in the film room and show he can start to read a defense. I'm sure he will look fine in practice and such, but when the real bullets fly in the NFL he will need a little time to adjust to the defenses and being able to make reads. Depending on the OC, OL pass protection and what WRs aside from Watkins we end up with he may have a chance to play a bit near the end of the year. It would be ideal to find an older vet like a Hoyer to run the team and help develop him. I just see him as having the most upside since most of his mechanics, ability to throw a 50 -60 yarder, good at bubble screens and quick passes and accuracy are already good. Just a lot less questions and the need for fixing (which never seems to work anyways). Edit: I also do not see TT being able to groom or help develop anyone.. This is a good write up on him: http://www.profootballweekly.com/2016/10/24/greg-gabriel-north-carolina-qb-mitch-trubisky-an-nfl-draft-prospect-worth-watching/axbg1x5/ Here is Gabe's write ups on the other QBs (from Sept) http://www.profootballweekly.com/2016/09/26/greg-gabriel-2017-nfl-draft-class-of-quarterbacks-could-be-special/a8wu3qn/ When you watch the film - I like Josh Norris and follow him on Twitter; Watson is a TT clone as far as running ability, but at times makes poor decisions. He has a bunch of clips and notes on him. He may develop into something, but a Hue Jackson might be able to accomplish that... Kayaa is what I expect the Browns will be going after in round 2 if they don't get a QB in round one. He is the only other one I think I would go after this draft. We could either trade the farm to get above the Bears to grab Trubisky or, trade back in Round 1 a bit and hope we can get Kayaa before the Browns, or use our #10 and try to trade above the Browns to grab him at the end of Round 1. Agree on not making it a redundant conversation, and I don't disagree with most of what you said, honestly. I will say, though, that Sammy missed 9 weeks this year and still finished 5th on the team for targets. I think Lynn emphasized him a bit better than Roman did in the past. Sammy was legit as hell after he asked for the damn ball last year and I entirely agree with this.... Edited January 7, 2017 by Reed83HOF
What a Tuel Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Money paid or guaranteed to a player must be accounted for on the cap. Some of Taylor's cap hit would be deferred, but those dollars still must be accounted for. Deferring a cap hit can help in the near term, but eventually the team has to take the hit. I don't disagree but you are rolling that guaranteed money into his first 2 years with the assumption they will cut him and that it will be due. Otherwise it is spread over the term of his contract.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 I agree with the principle. But I really didn't like Lynch. I still think it has to come down to talent evaluation not just the consensus next QB. I had Connor Cook ranked higher as a pro prospect. I am excited to see him play tonight I think he is gonna be a nice surprise to many. Lynch has shown me nothing in limited snaps so far (though I am not writing him off at this stage). Ironically I had Dak rated almost the same as Lynch (high 3rd) now if we had taken Dak at #19 I'd have said at the time "too reachy for me" and now would be eating humble pie. So there are swings and roundabouts. I know you would take one with your 1st every year until you have one. I am not there but I think you have to prioritise finding your QB in the 1st round of the draft. This year for me falls into "not a trade up year but we should pick one if they fall to us". Yeah I didn't love Lynch as a prospect but his tools are outstanding......and if they had drafted him they would be in a much more understandable position wrt letting Tyrod go. Lynch is a beast of an athlete with a great arm and, in theory at least, he would appear to be a fit in the current offense. I'm definitely not in the trade-up mode this year either.........there are some toolsy QB's in this draft but nobody that just jumps off the screen as a franchise changer.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 It's ALWAYS the right time to be trying to find your franchise QB. 2013 called.
Reed83HOF Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Sal Capaccio @SalSports 2h2 hours ago @StillTalkinTV @NFLWarRoom @MatthewFairburn Legal, yes. But the bonus $$ would then be all on them and accelerate into the cap this year Jay Skurski @JaySkurski 19m19 minutes ago @SalSports I'm not sure this is right. Say they trade him as soon as the league year starts, wouldn't the new team be picking up the option? Sal Capaccio @SalSports 5m5 minutes ago @JaySkurski You mean trade the contract? Hmm. I guess. I was thinking pick up extension then trade. You're probably right b
BADOLBILZ Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 I know you posted it before, but you had a good take on what positions should get in what round and the order of importance - care to post that again? In the first 3 rounds I am looking for players with #1 or 1A talent at: QB Pass rusher WR CB LT Those are the money positions......positions that are scarce and crazy expensive in FA.......if you can even find a good one in FA that doesn't have baggage/issues. The Bills have tended to draft to patch up holes and when doing so you end up with guys like Bob Woods......with ceilings as complementary players.....or guys play positions that you can't justify paying when they reach FA even if they reach their potential. IMO the early part o the draft is for finding franchise building blocks.........patching holes is for FA. 2013 called. And I said at that time that it was only a bad pick if they weren't willing to go back to the well in 2014. First round picks are a blessing and a burden. The Bills drafting record with second round picks in years that they didn't have a first rounder is very telling to me.
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