Gilmore: The Shadow Knows

[CommonCents]

Wow really Bandit your going to bash Sherman for getting trucked by McDonald? I always read your takes and they are 99.9 percent informative and usually spot on. Your so off base with Gilmore or maybe your just defending him because that's what you had done in the past. Gilmore is not a lockdown cover guy. No one really is anymore. Ok. Fine. The problem comes in with Gilmore that the other teams know he is so bad at tackling they often go around him, over him, and through him. Couple that in with his lack of passion on the field and he is a liability on this defense. He simply has not shown the effort or want to consistently. Players like Gilmore are why you get gashed for 200 yard games, they simply don't care to get their nose dirty.

 

Is he the biggest problem? Far from it. Is he going to be worth the money? In the right surroundings his value would be much better. Heck opposite Sherman, or a Talib etc. Someone that could get him to play football ALL THE TIME and get DIRTY. Earl Thomas and Sherman would get that fixed. Right now Gilmore is a cupcake in a box with 10 or so others. This team can't afford to pay premium money for another cupcake.

 

Press the reset button, find some guys that want to play football. Sorry, not trying to come off as a d*** but the passive play when I want attitude and lack of physicality stands out each and every Sunday. Put him on a beastly D where he can follow someone else's lead.

[PO16FFS]

Wow really Bandit your going to bash Sherman for getting trucked by McDonald? I always read your takes and they are 99.9 percent informative and usually spot on. Your so off base with Gilmore or maybe your just defending him because that's what you had done in the past. Gilmore is not a lockdown cover guy. No one really is anymore. Ok. Fine. The problem comes in with Gilmore that the other teams know he is so bad at tackling they often go around him, over him, and through him. Couple that in with his lack of passion on the field and he is a liability on this defense. He simply has not shown the effort or want to consistently. Players like Gilmore are why you get gashed for 200 yard games, they simply don't care to get their nose dirty.

 

Is he the biggest problem? Far from it. Is he going to be worth the money? In the right surroundings his value would be much better. Heck opposite Sherman, or a Talib etc. Someone that could get him to play football ALL THE TIME and get DIRTY. Earl Thomas and Sherman would get that fixed. Right now Gilmore is a cupcake in a box with 10 or so others. This team can't afford to pay premium money for another cupcake.

 

Press the reset button, find some guys that want to play football. Sorry, not trying to come off as a d*** but the passive play when I want attitude and lack of physicality stands out each and every Sunday. Put him on a beastly D where he can follow someone else's lead.

 

Couldnt have said it better. Yesterday watching Seatlle, Detroit never threw the ball his way, however, Sherman and his teammates were buzzing everywhere on the field. I fully respect Gilmore's ability, but he's just cashing it in. Win or lose, he dont give a sh.it.

[bmur66]

Really I think Gilmore figured out that he can either play an entire season or he can play with reckless abandon and get injured. Remember when he got between Aaron Williams and a receiver? The result was a broken arm. I am not saying he has no heart. I just think his soft play was a business decision. He may have even been coached to play soft. It doesn't matter how well he can cover if he is not on the field. I just don't know what to think about that other than I would take Dick Sherman any day.

I laugh when receivers step out of bounds so they don't take a hit on the sidelines when they play the Bills. He really is a "cupcake in a box with 10 others".

Edited January 8, 2017 by bmur66

[3rdand12]

No, I want coaches that like guys that are good. That means you cover when asked, make a good form tackle when you need to , and generally hate to give up a yard . You know, actually play defense and don't think you are only there to do one thing, or that the play stops before the whistle blows.

Thank you.

[PO16FFS]

Really I think Gilmore figured out that he can either play an entire season or he can play with reckless abandon and get injured. Remember when he got between Aaron Williams and a receiver? The result was a broken arm. I am not saying he has no heart. I just think his soft play was a business decision. He may have even been coached to play soft. It doesn't matter how well he can cover if he is not on the field. I just don't know what to think about that other than I would take Dick Sherman any day.

I laugh when receivers step out of bounds so they don't take a hit on the sidelines when they play the Bills. He really is a "cupcake in a box with 10 others".

 

Gilmore has only played 1 full season: His rookie year.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Gilmore is a me guy who doesn't have the competitiveness to really be a difference maker on a large scale. If a team like the Bills gives Stephon Gilmore top CB money, it is going to be a huge mistake.

Really I think Gilmore figured out that he can either play an entire season or he can play with reckless abandon and get injured. Remember when he got between Aaron Williams and a receiver? The result was a broken arm. I am not saying he has no heart. I just think his soft play was a business decision. He may have even been coached to play soft. It doesn't matter how well he can cover if he is not on the field. I just don't know what to think about that other than I would take Dick Sherman any day.
I laugh when receivers step out of bounds so they don't take a hit on the sidelines when they play the Bills. He really is a "cupcake in a box with 10 others".

Is using your arms to make a tackle instead of throwing a shoulder reckless abandon? The guy is soft, plain and simple. Too afraid to stick his head in and make a proper tackle. It cost us more than once this season and I for one don't want a large portion of the salary cap tied up in a soft player like Gilmore.

Edited January 8, 2017 by K-GunJimKelly12

[NoSaint]

Gilmore is a me guy who doesn't have the competitiveness to really be a difference maker on a large scale. If a team like the Bills gives Stephon Gilmore top CB money, it is going to be a huge mistake.

 

Is using your arms to make a tackle instead of throwing a shoulder reckless abandon? The guy is soft, plain and simple. To afraid to stick his head in and make a proper tackle. It cost us more than once this season and I for one don't want a large portion of the salary cap tied up in a soft player like Gilmore.

How much did it really cost us? I won't even argue one way or the other but would be very curious to see it somehow quantified. Could be a good project for local media ::hint hint to the ones that read here for ideas::

[thebandit27]

Wow really Bandit your going to bash Sherman for getting trucked by McDonald? I always read your takes and they are 99.9 percent informative and usually spot on. Your so off base with Gilmore or maybe your just defending him because that's what you had done in the past. Gilmore is not a lockdown cover guy. No one really is anymore. Ok. Fine. The problem comes in with Gilmore that the other teams know he is so bad at tackling they often go around him, over him, and through him. Couple that in with his lack of passion on the field and he is a liability on this defense. He simply has not shown the effort or want to consistently. Players like Gilmore are why you get gashed for 200 yard games, they simply don't care to get their nose dirty.

 

Is he the biggest problem? Far from it. Is he going to be worth the money? In the right surroundings his value would be much better. Heck opposite Sherman, or a Talib etc. Someone that could get him to play football ALL THE TIME and get DIRTY. Earl Thomas and Sherman would get that fixed. Right now Gilmore is a cupcake in a box with 10 or so others. This team can't afford to pay premium money for another cupcake.

 

Press the reset button, find some guys that want to play football. Sorry, not trying to come off as a d*** but the passive play when I want attitude and lack of physicality stands out each and every Sunday. Put him on a beastly D where he can follow someone else's lead.

The Sherman stuff is tongue in cheek rebuttal that good corners don't (a) get burnt by average receivers or (b) get trucked by TEs.

 

Suffice to say that I don't think Gilmore is soft , but I will agree that he started the season in preservation mode.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

How much did it really cost us? I won't even argue one way or the other but would be very curious to see it somehow quantified. Could be a good project for local media ::hint hint to the ones that read here for ideas::

I remember sitting about 30 rows up for the home opener with a Jets 3rd and 7 on the opening drive. Stephon Gilmore was on the bubble screen was in perfect position to make what should have been an easy tackle and force a punt. He pussed out and it cost us a TD on that drive. If they punt on that drive instead of scoring a TD, it could make a huge difference in that game.

 

There were plays like that all season with him and the shoulder tackle on the Miami running back in the season finale, where he just bounced off and ran for another 40 yards was the icing on the cake. He is a good cover corner but not great and certainly not good enough to make up for his shortcomings in other areas.

 

Gilmore seems like a nice guy but he is obviously more concerned with looking good than anything else. Remember when he got smoked by Hogan and was looking for the teammate to blame before Hogan even crossed the goal line? You don't build with guys like that. Giving him $13 million + would be absolutely insane for the Bills. You could use that money more wisely. It might be worth for a team on the cusp of a Super Bowl, but anyone who would think about handing over top corner back money to Stephon Gilmore, on a team like the Bills considering where they are, I want nothing to do with my football team. Franchise him and make him play another year while we solidify the position if you are that concerned about the position in 2017.

Just thinking about that play in the first drive of the home opener. I remember it wasn't that Gilmore had to even make the tackle, trying to make a legit tackle instead of throwing a shoulder at a knee would have slowed up the defender for Gilmore's teammates to get over and complete the play. So pathetic.

Edited January 8, 2017 by K-GunJimKelly12

[3rdand12]

I remember sitting about 30 rows up for the home opener with a Jets 3rd and 7 on the opening drive. Stephon Gilmore was on the bubble screen was in perfect position to make what should have been an easy tackle and force a punt. He pussed out and it cost us a TD on that drive. If they punt on that drive instead of scoring a TD, it could make a huge difference in that game.

 

There were plays like that all season with him and the shoulder tackle on the Miami running back in the season finale, where he just bounced off and ran for another 40 yards was the icing on the cake. He is a good cover corner but not great and certainly not good enough to make up for his shortcomings in other areas.

 

Gilmore seems like a nice guy but he is obviously more concerned with looking good than anything else. Remember when he got smoked by Hogan and was looking for the teammate to blame before Hogan even crossed the goal line? You don't build with guys like that. Giving him $13 million + would be absolutely insane for the Bills. You could use that money more wisely. It might be worth for a team on the cusp of a Super Bowl, but anyone who would think about handing over top corner back money to Stephon Gilmore, on a team like the Bills considering where they are, I want nothing to do with my football team. Franchise him and make him play another year while we solidify the position if you are that concerned about the position in 2017.

Just thinking about that play in the first drive of the home opener. I remember it wasn't that Gilmore had to even make the tackle, trying to make a legit tackle instead of throwing a shoulder at a knee would have slowed up the defender for Gilmore's teammates to get over and complete the play. So pathetic.

I recall that play. Stuck in my craw. So i watched him alot.

 

wish him well in his future endeavors

[boyst]

whoever plays CB for Miami held Brown to 9 targets and 5 catches.

 

The next closest had 2 targets.

 

I am thinking that Ben is just a garbage QB.

[3rdand12]

whoever plays CB for Miami held Brown to 9 targets and 5 catches.

 

The next closest had 2 targets.

 

I am thinking that Ben is just a garbage QB.

stats are fun aren't they ? good post

[What a Tuel]

5 catches for 124 yards and 2 tds....

[26CornerBlitz]

5 catches for 124 yards and 2 tds....

 

They really held him in check.

[3rdand12]

5 catches for 124 yards and 2 tds....

those are probably not complimentary statistics are they?

[What a Tuel]

those are probably not complimentary statistics are they?

 

Yeah, probably not. No idea what you guys were talking about, just thought I'd tack on the definitive statistics for his "5 catches".

 

As for the topic, I think Gilmore has had his mistakes, but even with being left out alone at every point this year, a lot of the top WRs struggled against him.

Edited January 8, 2017 by What a Tuel

[iinii]

Interesting stat for you Patty, the Pats defense played against the weakest schedule of any team in the last six years. Happy Postseason!

When you can't play the best team in the conference because you are the best team in the conference your schedule will look softer than everyone else's.

[thebandit27]

Bumping this so that we can put Gimore's numbers in context:

 

Gilmore stats for the 2016 season: 69 targets, 40 receptions, 627 yards, 2 TDs, 67.7 passer rating against, 42 solo tackles

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/11/why-bills-cb-stephon-gilmore-wasnt-as-bad-as-you-thought-in-2016/

 

Article from Ike Taylor on his top 10 CBs in 2016:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000769950/article/yearend-cornerback-rankings-richard-sherman-lands-at-no-1

 

Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks: allowed 44 catches on 85 targets for 624 yards, two TDs, four INTs, 64.0 passer rating against, 38 solo tackles

 

Patrick Peterson, Arizona Cardinals: allowed 43 catches on 74 targets for 539 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 72.9 passer rating against, 45 solo tackles

 

Chris Harris Jr., Denver Broncos: allowed 34 catches on 72 targets for 337 yards, three TDs, two INTs, 63.3 passer rating against, 57 solo tackles

 

Marcus Peters, Kansas City Chiefs: allowed 51 catches on 89 targets for 652 yards, three TDs, six INTs, 63.5 passer rating against, 35 solo tackles

 

Josh Norman, Washington Redskins: allowed 44 catches on 88 targets for 589 yards, four TDs, three INTs, 72.6 passer rating against, 52 solo tackles

 

Janoris Jenkins, New York Giants: allowed 37 catches on 81 targets for 425 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 54.8 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles

 

Adam Jones, Cincinnati Bengals: allowed 47 catches for 76 targets for 482 yards, two TDs, one INT, 83.3 passer rating against, 54 solo tackles

 

Xavier Rhodes, Minnesota Vikings: allowed 33 catches on 79 targets for 384 yards, two TDs, five INTs, 39.2 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles

 

Aqib Talib, Denver Broncos: allowed 36 catches on 73 targets for 372 yards, zero TDs, three INTs, 53.3 passer rating against, 32 solo tackles

 

Jalen Ramsey, Jacksonville Jaguars: allowed 48 catches on 90 targets for 703 yards, two TDs, two INTs, 68.0 passer rating against, 55 solo tackles

 

Summary:

 

- Gilmore was targeted by opposing QBs fewer times than everyone on that list

- He allowed more yards than everyone on the list save for Ramsey and Peters

- Talib allowed zero TDs, and Gilmore tied with 6 others on the list for 2nd-fewest with 2 TDs allowed

- Gilmore's passer rating allowed was 3.7 points behind Sherman, and better than than those allowed by Patrick Peterson, Josh Norman, Adam Jones, and Jalen Ramsey

- Gilmore had fewer INTs than Peters, and tied with Rhodes for 2nd-most from that list

 

I'd say that Gilmore definitely has an argument that he should be considered among the top 10 cover corners in the NFL based on the numbers.

 

Thoughts?

Edited January 30, 2017 by thebandit27

[End The Drought]

I play football with his first cousin. He said they talked recently and Stephon doesn't think the Bills will pay him. I asked where he would be interested in going and was told he has a nice pad in Charlotte...

[NoSaint]

There's a bit of a psychological effect to us having 2-3 bad plays that really stand out (perceived or actual) whereas as most cb play we see around the league is highlights (you notice the WR not the corner in most of those unless it's showcasing a corners big play)

 

He's good. I said it in another thread but if any of us think we can feasibly define the difference between 7 and 12 on the list we are fooling ourselves - he's in a mess of guys playing above average #1 corner play but not in the greatest of the decade category of discussions.