Gilmore: The Shadow Knows

[thebandit27]

Your stats proving Gilmore is a good tackler reminds me of the person that used to quote stats to prove SJ didn't drop passes.

Your stats proving that Gilmore is...wait..you provided no stats.

 

You actually provided no facts of any kind.

 

Lastly, you seem to be unable to follow the discussion, since you've somehow inexplicably managed to attribute to me the statement that Gilmore is a good tackler.

 

It's a shame really, because I've laid things out pretty clearly.

When I watch him I just see a good corner.

As do most NFL personnel evaluators I'd wager--and it'll show in his contract come March. Edited January 8, 2017 by thebandit27

[boyst]

Bandit, you're defense of Gilmore would earn an atta boy from Johnnie Cochran.

bandit is defense?

Your stats proving that Gilmore is...wait..you provided no stats.

 

You actually provided no facts of any kind.

 

Lastly, you seem to be unable to follow the discussion, since you've somehow inexplicably managed to attribute to me the statement that Gilmore is a good tackler.

 

It's a shame really, because I've laid things out pretty clearly.

As do most NFL personnel evaluators I'd wager--and it'll show in his contract come March.

thank you for your efforts in trying to keep bringing this up.

 

there are many short sighted and short minded bills fans here.

 

all we need to look at in what happens when you lose starting cornerbacks and depth cornerbacks is the Browns 2013 game where aaron wililams had to go to cornerback after mckelvin, brooks, and a few others were already out. we were on our 5th safety. our backup safety this year, corey white, would have started on 10-12 teams most likely.

 

look at carolina and the fanfare that daryl worely and james bradberry received because they were forced in to starting over a lousy beniwerke who ended up getting the job back.

 

gilmore is a starting cb who deserves $10mm+. if we don't pay it, Carolina wants to and will; they've even told his agent and Gilmore wants to go home.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Boyst62

[Boatdrinks]

bandit is defense?

 

thank you for your efforts in trying to keep bringing this up.

 

there are many short sighted and short minded bills fans here.

 

all we need to look at in what happens when you lose starting cornerbacks and depth cornerbacks is the Browns 2013 game where aaron wililams had to go to cornerback after mckelvin, brooks, and a few others were already out. we were on our 5th safety. our backup safety this year, corey white, would have started on 10-12 teams most likely.

 

look at carolina and the fanfare that daryl worely and james bradberry received because they were forced in to starting over a lousy beniwerke who ended up getting the job back.

 

gilmore is a starting cb who deserves $10mm+. if we don't pay it, Carolina wants to and will; they've even told his agent and Gilmore wants to go home.

Then let him go home. It's what he wants . Never wanted to be here from the start and it showed. He's not top 5 so next man up. He just happens to be the guy whose contract is up this year. Good for him. I don't like the way he plays and hope the Bills don't pay him. He's more of what's wrong with this team than what's right. Needs to be on winning franchise to change his ways. Not a culture changer

[boyst]

Then let him go home. It's what he wants . Never wanted to be here from the start and it showed. He's not top 5 so next man up. He just happens to be the guy whose contract is up this year. Good for him. I don't like the way he plays and hope the Bills don't pay him. He's more of what's wrong with this team than what's right. Needs to be on winning franchise to change his ways. Not a culture changer

those #feelings of yours really are important.

 

he actually loves buffalo, his teammates and all. this is a small town kid who misses his southern roots, but he truly does love buffalo and the team. he has a great deal of respect for his teammates, aaron williams specifically. if aaron retires i think it could be a factor in gilmore leaving. and the whole thing about never wanting to be here, that's just who he is and it came down to simply being surprised that buffalo would pick him, though they told him they intended to do so; he was also told by Carolina that they promised to draft him if he was there. by reports no one expected keuchly to still be there. and if i remember hearing right from people down here the jets told him they were going to move up and get him if he was there later.

 

but yeah, your #feelings that he didn't want to be here matter more than everything he's said and done...

[frogger]

If we do go Lynn and Bradley, I expect Prince Amukamara to replace Gilmore, he played well for Jax last year and is coming off a deal worth about 5.5 million a year.

 

That doesn't mean I don't like Gilmore, but when we have change in the coaching, we typically see things like this. coaches want players that they know.

[Boatdrinks]

those #feelings of yours really are important.

 

he actually loves buffalo, his teammates and all. this is a small town kid who misses his southern roots, but he truly does love buffalo and the team. he has a great deal of respect for his teammates, aaron williams specifically. if aaron retires i think it could be a factor in gilmore leaving. and the whole thing about never wanting to be here, that's just who he is and it came down to simply being surprised that buffalo would pick him, though they told him they intended to do so; he was also told by Carolina that they promised to draft him if he was there. by reports no one expected keuchly to still be there. and if i remember hearing right from people down here the jets told him they were going to move up and get him if he was there later.

 

but yeah, your #feelings that he didn't want to be here matter more than everything he's said and done...

My #feelings mean about as much as yours do. Zero. You love the guy and are his cheerleader for some reason. I don't. Some team will pay him and good for him. That's what he wants. I'd take Keuchly all day over SG. Baller. The Bills GM will decide and word is they were done with him by week 12 or so. We'll see. I'd spend the money elsewhere . You can't pay everyone in FA and the Bills seem to have a philosophy of not paying FA CBs . Don't remember the last guy to hit FA that they actually kept. Gilmore plays soft to me and looks like a he has a losing mentality. No thanks. I'd take my chances on someone else. You are correct though, FA is about who is available that year and this is the year for SG to ca$$$h in elsewhere .

[thebandit27]

If we do go Lynn and Bradley, I expect Prince Amukamara to replace Gilmore, he played well for Jax last year and is coming off a deal worth about 5.5 million a year.

 

That doesn't mean I don't like Gilmore, but when we have change in the coaching, we typically see things like this. coaches want players that they know.

If they go the FA route, I'd like a cap casualty like Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie or Sam Shields.

[boyst]

If we do go Lynn and Bradley, I expect Prince Amukamara to replace Gilmore, he played well for Jax last year and is coming off a deal worth about 5.5 million a year.

 

That doesn't mean I don't like Gilmore, but when we have change in the coaching, we typically see things like this. coaches want players that they know.

if it is bradley than i would love to see gilmore and amukarmumrmaukakjuram

 

we've seen that roby is a baller and good and all, but i'd be very happy to have 3 starting outside cb's and trade away ?

My #feelings mean about as much as yours do. Zero. You love the guy and are his cheerleader for some reason. I don't. Some team will pay him and good for him. That's what he wants. I'd take Keuchly all day over SG. Baller. The Bills GM will decide and word is they were done with him by week 12 or so. We'll see. I'd spend the money elsewhere . You can't pay everyone in FA and the Bills seem to have a philosophy of not paying FA CBs . Don't remember the last guy to hit FA that they actually kept. Gilmore plays soft to me and looks like a he has a losing mentality. No thanks. I'd take my chances on someone else. You are correct though, FA is about who is available that year and this is the year for SG to ca$$$h in elsewhere .

no, my feelings are based on conversations with those that know him, conversations his former coach and now mentor had with a girl i'm seeing on an airplane ride back from raleigh, and initial info from there...

 

i'm not a cheerleader for him, not at all. he's not one of my favorite bills by any means but i like him a lot for who he is and how he plays.

 

the last guy we kept: mckelvin. but roby, too.

[PO16FFS]

I love Bandit's arguments. I think he is a great poster and very Football savvy.

 

In Gilmore's case..I couldnt care less about stats. Dude has no HEART! He doesnt lay it on the line like KW does. He lacks some basic tackling fundamentals. He misses home.

 

See ya!

[H2o]

Thanks, but in his case opposing council actually presented evidence!

Kinda like how the prosecution introduced the glove. "If it doesn't fit...you must acquit"

[BobbyC81]

Some of the lack of aggressiveness could have been the scheme to cover up our serious shortcomings at the Safety position. If we get better safeties, Gilmore and Darby will be more free to isolate their top-2 receivers and shut them down. Also, the tackling could be symptomatic of the Ryan coaching style. More than just Gilmore forgot how to tackle.

 

We do NOT want to create another hole. He is not Revis-in-his-prime but he is still pretty good. I hope we can keep him at a reasonable contract.

No, the Bills will make their usual moves that let talent go and then use available assets, like 10th pick in draft, to replace those players. That's why they never improve enough to make the playoffs. Gilmore will leave and then an early round pick or free agent money used for replacement. Woods will leave an already weak WR corps and then draft pick and free agent money to replace him without likely improving the unit. The Bills won't exercise the option on Tyrod so he will leave and they will scramble with a trade of a draft pick and signing of a mediocre journeyman and the QB play in 2017 will be worse, etc.

[Boatdrinks]

No, the Bills will make their usual moves that let talent go and then use available assets, like 10th pick in draft, to replace those players. That's why they never improve enough to make the playoffs. Gilmore will leave and then an early round pick or free agent money used for replacement. Woods will leave an already weak WR corps and then draft pick and free agent money to replace him without likely improving the unit. The Bills won't exercise the option on Tyrod so he will leave and they will scramble with a trade of a draft pick and signing of a mediocre journeyman and the QB play in 2017 will be worse, etc.

So the Bills will not improve because they, like every other NFL team cannot keep all of their players due to free agency ? And they will actually have to draft players to replace others that are no longer on the roster? No wonder they can never seem to make the playoffs.

[rant_and_go]

As do most NFL personnel evaluators I'd wager--and it'll show in his contract come March.

Sure, there are never big busts with contract signings. Osweiler. Asomugha.

 

We should have put him up on the trade block right after the Roman firing. Taylor too. Addition by subtraction, get some more picks, and move up higher in the draft. With the news about Rob Ryan, and seeing Taylor stand on his tip toes in the Miami game, made it clear by any honest assessment this team is squeezing blood from a stone to get to 7-9.

 

The only thing that leans in favor of keeping him here is the number of Buffalo sports name who have left town over the past two decades. But now we have the third richest owner in the league who is from here. Do it right before he looses all hope and moves the team.

[PO16FFS]

Sure, there are never big busts with contract signings. Osweiler. Asomugha.

 

 

Just keep it in house for examples: Byrd, Levitre, Spiller

Edited January 8, 2017 by PO16FFS

[Captain_Quint]

I love Bandit's arguments. I think he is a great poster and very Football savvy.

 

In Gilmore's case..I couldnt care less about stats. Dude has no HEART! He doesnt lay it on the line like KW does. He lacks some basic tackling fundamentals. He misses home.

 

See ya!

I agree. Bandit is one of the best and most insightful posters here. But I dont agree with Gilmore.

 

High level athlete/corner, but lack of heart and leadership.

[Bill from NYC]

Then let him go home. It's what he wants . Never wanted to be here from the start and it showed. He's not top 5 so next man up. He just happens to be the guy whose contract is up this year. Good for him. I don't like the way he plays and hope the Bills don't pay him. He's more of what's wrong with this team than what's right. Needs to be on winning franchise to change his ways. Not a culture changer

He will not be missed all that much and drafting him was a dumb idea in the first place. And before anyone pulls out more stats, please remind me of 2 things:

1) How many games Gilmore took over and won for this team.

2) How many playoff appearances we have since we used a #10 on Gilmore.

 

Stats are fine, but they have a place. I read stats on this board that indicated that Rex Ryan was a good coach. The fact is that Rex, nice guy or not, is a lousy, dog-ass coach.

 

And remember, Gilmore wants to get out of here just as fast as he can. No, he didn't tell me this, but am I the only one to be reminded of the Clements situation? Clements and his wife wanted out of Buffalo under any and all conditions. Well, how good was Clements after he bolted? People complain about Gilmore at his current salary.....could you imagine this type of play for 15 million per season?

 

Imo, Gilmore leaving is a foregone conclusion. The compensatory pick might come in handy too. Maybe.

[NoSaint]

I agree. Bandit is one of the best and most insightful posters here. But I dont agree with Gilmore.

 

High level athlete/corner, but lack of heart and leadership.

I'm reading bandit as "he's a solidly above average #1 cover corner and tackling issues aren't dramatic or important enough to knock his net impact down to below average skills. Above average coverage guys are expensive and hard to find (hence the price tag)"

 

I don't think that misrepresents him and I have a hard time figuring how to disagree with it

[JM57]

I'm reading bandit as "he's a solidly above average #1 cover corner and tackling issues aren't dramatic or important enough to knock his net impact down to below average skills. Above average coverage guys are expensive and hard to find (hence the price tag)"

 

I don't think that misrepresents him and I have a hard time figuring how to disagree with it

That's probably a perfect summary of Gilmore. He has his warts, but you're going to have a damn hard time replacing him and not calling it an immediate downgrade. But some fans just can't see past the warts, and they'll be the first ones to move on to Darby or whoever lines up in Gilmore's place as their new whipping boy.

[jumbalaya]

We can afford to sign Gilmore. We can't afford to let him go and draft a replacement leaving holes in other positions. This lose and replace merry go round that is the Bills has to stop.

[thebandit27]

I'm reading bandit as "he's a solidly above average #1 cover corner and tackling issues aren't dramatic or important enough to knock his net impact down to below average skills. Above average coverage guys are expensive and hard to find (hence the price tag)"

 

I don't think that misrepresents him and I have a hard time figuring how to disagree with it

Yep--you've got my point nailed