GG Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 6 hours ago, OJABBA said: Whatever that means to you. Thanks! So in addition to being a vessel of Russian subterfuge, Trump controls the global equity markets? Maybe he's not as much of an idiot that I gave him credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, GG said: So in addition to being a vessel of Russian subterfuge, Trump controls the global equity markets? Maybe he's not as much of an idiot that I gave him credit for. If that's how you read it, then that must be what I meant. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/06/lockheed-martin-gets-air-force-contract-to-develop-airborne-high-power-laser-weapons.html?__source=Facebook|main ************************************************************************************ +++ (?) Edited November 7, 2017 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 8 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: I understand you have a personal relationship with one of the people ensnared in this scandal, but I'm less clear on what you think my position on this scandal is. Mainly because I haven't made any statement on it at all. I merely stashed a Washington Post article to read later. You might be letting your emotions mislead you as to what my agenda is here, particularly with regard to this story. No "emotion" whatsoever. Pat Walsh is no more "ensnared" is this than you are. Pat was a four star who was Commander in Chief, Pacific Fleet. The guy in question was a rich contractor who had provided services to the US Navy. In your link, Walsh states that he didn't know who invited the guy to his change of command, but said that the guy had a knack for showing up at a lot of different events. As background for you, when extremely high ranking changes of command occur, a protocol office handles a lot of the invites. He also states that the guy invited him to dinner when he was commander of the USS Stennis carrier strike group, but he didn't attend. What your link does is show pro forma receiving line pictures and claim these folks are "ensnared." It is this type of ridiculous false linkage that underpins a lot of these idiotic broad brush conspiracy suggestions. Pat Walsh is successfully retired and not at all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 8 hours ago, sherpa said: No "emotion" whatsoever. Pat Walsh is no more "ensnared" is this than you are. Pat was a four star who was Commander in Chief, Pacific Fleet. The guy in question was a rich contractor who had provided services to the US Navy. In your link, Walsh states that he didn't know who invited the guy to his change of command, but said that the guy had a knack for showing up at a lot of different events. As background for you, when extremely high ranking changes of command occur, a protocol office handles a lot of the invites. He also states that the guy invited him to dinner when he was commander of the USS Stennis carrier strike group, but he didn't attend. What your link does is show pro forma receiving line pictures and claim these folks are "ensnared." It is this type of ridiculous false linkage that underpins a lot of these idiotic broad brush conspiracy suggestions. Pat Walsh is successfully retired and not at all concerned. Your emotions are showing, my friend. You're crusading against things I've never said and making conclusions I've never drawn. It's not my link. It's a Washington Post article about a corruption circle within the Navy. I didn't write it, nor comment upon it. You want to defend your friend, that's great. But you can do so without disparaging me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 ***************************************** Back to SA and the connections to our political system: Presidents aren't elected, they're selected... Gotta do some digging on this one, but here are the dots: Al-Waleed bin Talal was swept up in the "corruption" purge in the kingdom. As we've covered before, he is the single largest investor in Citigroup/Citibank, on top of holding majority stakes in several other major tech and media companies. He's a huge donor to both parties, but particularly the democrats over the past 10 years - which I point out in relation to this explosive email from 2008 wherein Citigroup wrote Podesta and "suggested" what BO's cabinet should be: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/8190 (look at the attachments) 44 took his marching orders to heart, as his actual cabinet is a near mirror image of this "suggestion" from Al-Waleed bin Talal's bank. This is how the deep state/shadow government operates. Why would Al-Waleed bin Talal's bank want such a say in the selection of the PE's cabinet? What else was going on at that time? Oh, right, a global financial meltdown and a massive bailout of financial institutions were being debated in DC... Which brings us to this interesting email exchange: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/48302 Podesta and BO staffers are discussing the upcoming TARP bailouts and how Citigroup was getting special protection and compensation. Podesta's careful response, in light of what actually happened with Citi and the bailouts, is eyebrow raising: "I'm ok with being characterized as an off the reservation, crazy pitch fork populist, but we should be very careful to not seem to be giving citi a pass on the guide posts we are applying to others." (emphasis is mine) Now, if you do some digging into how the bailouts were rolled out in relation to Citi and its executives, you will see how much of a pass Citi actually got on those "guide posts"... Starting points: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/24/business/24citibank.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/business/04pay.html http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1886778,00.html ... But I'm sure it had nothing to do with Al-Waleed bin Talal's connection to Citi and the DC establishment. Nothing at all. This is just one example, of many, of the type of corruption and influence we're examining in this thread. This is about the groups and individuals who exert undue influence and power on our government, not for the betterment of the country or its people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 I guess this is one way to recoup money when your kingdom is financially failing: Saudi banks freeze more than 1,200 accounts in probe, number still rising: sources https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-arrests-accounts/saudi-banks-freeze-more-than-1200-accounts-in-probe-number-still-rising-sources-idUSKBN1D71W5 https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/07/reuters-america-saudi-banks-freeze-over-1200-accounts-in-probe-number-still-rising-sources.html https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-07/saudi-crackdown-is-said-to-widen-as-more-bank-accounts-frozen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: ***************************************** Back to SA and the connections to our political system: Presidents aren't elected, they're selected... Gotta do some digging on this one, but here are the dots: Al-Waleed bin Talal was swept up in the "corruption" purge in the kingdom. As we've covered before, he is the single largest investor in Citigroup/Citibank, on top of holding majority stakes in several other major tech and media companies. He's a huge donor to both parties, but particularly the democrats over the past 10 years - which I point out in relation to this explosive email from 2008 wherein Citigroup wrote Podesta and "suggested" what BO's cabinet should be: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/8190 (look at the attachments) 44 took his marching orders to heart, as his actual cabinet is a near mirror image of this "suggestion" from Al-Waleed bin Talal's bank. This is how the deep state/shadow government operates. Why would Al-Waleed bin Talal's bank want such a say in the selection of the PE's cabinet? What else was going on at that time? Oh, right, a global financial meltdown and a massive bailout of financial institutions were being debated in DC... Which brings us to this interesting email exchange: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/48302 Podesta and BO staffers are discussing the upcoming TARP bailouts and how Citigroup was getting special protection and compensation. Podesta's careful response, in light of what actually happened with Citi and the bailouts, is eyebrow raising: "I'm ok with being characterized as an off the reservation, crazy pitch fork populist, but we should be very careful to not seem to be giving citi a pass on the guide posts we are applying to others." (emphasis is mine) Now, if you do some digging into how the bailouts were rolled out in relation to Citi and its executives, you will see how much of a pass Citi actually got on those "guide posts"... Starting points: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/24/business/24citibank.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/business/04pay.html http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1886778,00.html ... But I'm sure it had nothing to do with Al-Waleed bin Talal's connection to Citi and the DC establishment. Nothing at all. This is just one example, of many, of the type of corruption and influence we're examining in this thread. This is about the groups and individuals who exert undue influence and power on our government, not for the betterment of the country or its people. This is another ridiculous allegation. Citi's ties to DNC have everything to do with Bob Rubin and very little to do with Saudi Arabia. Even your smoking gun email establishes the timeline. That email was written before the implosion when Al-Waleed Talal increased his ownership. Before that, he was deemed as the essential dumb money investor. That's why conspiracy nuts can't explain the danger of a passive 5% owner of Citigroup, but could care less about 20% ownership of Morgan Stanley by the Japanese or 100% ownership of "Lehman Brothers" by the British. By following your tangents, you can ascribe Saipov's murderous rampage as a message to the Saudis because he drove his truck across the street from Citi's global headquarters and maybe hoping to hit some bankers along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, GG said: By following your tangents, you can ascribe Saipov's murderous rampage as a message to the Saudis because he drove his truck across the street from Citi's global headquarters and maybe hoping to hit some bankers along the way. You could try... Or you can follow the money trail between ISIS, Saudi Arabia and the US and their connections "known wolves" like Saipov. One will get you much closer to the truth than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 13 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: You could try... Or you can follow the money trail between ISIS, Saudi Arabia and the US and their connections "known wolves" like Saipov. One will get you much closer to the truth than the other. No one is denying SA regime's funding of terrorist networks. What is at question is their direct influence on US business and politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, GG said: No one is denying SA regime's funding of terrorist networks. What is at question is their direct influence on US business and politics. If you're still in doubt as to whether or not there is a direct Saudi influence on US politics and business, you're being willfully ignorant. This thread alone has 100s of links showing the connection - not conspiracy links, MSM links. (a smattering of examples) https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/20/us-saudi-arabia-seal-weapons-deal-worth-nearly-110-billion-as-trump-begins-visit.html https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/06/us-saudi-arms-deal-narrowly-escapes-bipartisan-opposition/530232/ https://theintercept.com/2017/05/19/as-trump-travels-to-saudi-arabia-the-kingdoms-d-c-lobbying-surge-is-paying-off/ https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-saudi-relations https://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html https://www.salon.com/2016/10/11/leaked-hillary-clinton-emails-show-u-s-allies-saudi-arabia-and-qatar-supported-isis/ https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/3774 https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2005/12/harvard-receives-20m-gift-for-islamic-studies-program/ https://harvardmagazine.com/2006/03/a-saudi-princes-controve.html ... And the list goes on and on and on. Edited November 7, 2017 by Deranged Rhino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: If you're still in doubt as to whether or not there is a direct Saudi influence on US politics and business, you're being willfully ignorant. This thread alone has 100s of links showing the connection - not conspiracy links, MSM links. The links are tangential, just like the one where Saipov went after Citi bankers to send a message to Saudis or to the US, or to the street vendors, or to whoever you want to attach a circumstantial string to. Do you think it's a coincidence that he targeted people riding on Citi Bikes in front of Citi's global HQ? See, I can play that game too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 minute ago, GG said: The links are tangential, just like the one where Saipov went after Citi bankers to send a message to Saudis or to the US, or to the street vendors, or to whoever you want to attach a circumstantial string to. "Tangential". Sure. There's direct evidence that the US knowingly gave money to the Saudis that they realized were being directly funneled to ISIS. Like I said, you're being willfully ignorant of the level of influence some of the Saudi elite wield in DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: "Tangential". Sure. There's direct evidence that the US knowingly gave money to the Saudis that they realized were being directly funneled to ISIS. Like I said, you're being willfully ignorant of the level of influence some of the Saudi elite wield in DC. They try to wield influence, but that doesn't mean they actually do. It just happens that at this moment, the US interests are more aligned with the house of Saud than they do with the Persians. Nothing more, nothing less. Tomorrow, the wind may change and Saudis are left in the cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, GG said: They try to wield influence, but that doesn't mean they actually do. It just happens that at this moment, the US interests are more aligned with the house of Saud than they do with the Persians. Nothing more, nothing less. Tomorrow, the wind may change and Saudis are left in the cold. They try? No, they succeed as we've seen with the largest arms deal in US history headed their way, as well as the US looking the other way for years while the Saudis (and others) knowingly funded and armed (with US weapons) ISIS and other extremists - often times with inevitable blowback on western civilians. But we'll leave that aside for the moment and focus on your other statement: "It just happens that at this moment, the US interests are more aligned with the house of Saud..." Why is it that we "just happen" to be aligned with the Sauds at this moment in our history? Could it be the years of Saudi influence and money pumped into the system? Nahh... that's crazy talk. There's no connection between money and political influence. If you pour enough money into the establishment you can buy enough politicians to "align" with your agenda. That's the beauty of owning politicians in a oligarchy - and exactly why we need to return our country to the democratic republic it was created to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 22 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: They try? No, they succeed as we've seen with the largest arms deal in US history headed their way, as well as the US looking the other way for years while the Saudis (and others) knowingly funded and armed (with US weapons) ISIS and other extremists - often times with inevitable blowback on western civilians. But we'll leave that aside for the moment and focus on your other statement: "It just happens that at this moment, the US interests are more aligned with the house of Saud..." Why is it that we "just happen" to be aligned with the Sauds at this moment in our history? Could it be the years of Saudi influence and money pumped into the system? Nahh... that's crazy talk. There's no connection between money and political influence. If you pour enough money into the establishment you can buy enough politicians to "align" with your agenda. That's the beauty of owning politicians in a oligarchy - and exactly why we need to return our country to the democratic republic it was created to be. Oh, I don't know. Perhaps it's because sensible people view Riyad as a lesser threat than Iran? You know, sometimes a simple explanation is the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 46 minutes ago, GG said: Oh, I don't know. Perhaps it's because sensible people view Riyad as a lesser threat than Iran? You know, sometimes a simple explanation is the right one. Proving my point that Saudi propaganda money does wonders in terms of conditioning. How many civilians in the US and Europe have been slaughtered by Sunni Jihadists compared to Shiite Jihadists in the past decade and half of the war on terror? I'll spare you the research, the Sunni extremists are running away with that particular competition. You've already gone on record stating that you're fine with that kind of blowback if it leads to more dead Russians. Most Americans disagree. In fact, most Americans believe we should not be engaging in empire building and nation building... and yet that agenda persists. ... Almost as if the will of the people is subservient to some other force in DC... outside influence and money perhaps? Nah... But again, now we're reaching the point in this conversation where we greatly diverge. You don't believe in the existence of a deep state or shadow government. I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 9 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Proving my point that Saudi propaganda money does wonders in terms of conditioning. How many civilians in the US and Europe have been slaughtered by Sunni Jihadists compared to Shiite Jihadists in the past decade and half of the war on terror? I'll spare you the research, the Sunni extremists are running away with that particular competition. You've already gone on record stating that you're fine with that kind of blowback if it leads to more dead Russians. Most Americans disagree. In fact, most Americans believe we should not be engaging in empire building and nation building... and yet that agenda persists. ... Almost as if the will of the people is subservient to some other force in DC... outside influence and money perhaps? Nah... But again, now we're reaching the point in this conversation where we greatly diverge. You don't believe in the existence of a deep state or shadow government. I do. I know, if only the US adopted a more friendly policy towards the Soviets all would be swell in the world. You continue to cling to the fantasy that global relations are binary and that all actions are only serving near term agendas, without an inkling of the ling term global positioning. Never mind the ridiculous assertion that you keep propping up that everything that USA does is only for the benefit of the military contractors, even though they're a smidgen of GDP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share Posted November 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, GG said: You continue to cling to the fantasy that global relations are binary and that all actions are only serving near term agendas, without an inkling of the ling term global positioning. Never mind the ridiculous assertion that you keep propping up that everything that USA does is only for the benefit of the military contractors, even though they're a smidgen of GDP. The bolded is why you keep missing what I'm saying and misconstruing it. I'm not talking about the USA. Never have been. I'm talking about the deep state/shadow government which is comprised of different and competing concerns. These concerns are not operating in any one nation's best interests. Only their own. My whole argument is that these concerns have hijacked our country to its detriment. Which is why ultimately we (you and I) are on the same team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: The bolded is why you keep missing what I'm saying and misconstruing it. I'm not talking about the USA. Never have been. I'm talking about the deep state/shadow government which is comprised of different and competing concerns. These concerns are not operating in any one nation's best interests. Only their own. My whole argument is that these concerns have hijacked our country to its detriment. Which is why ultimately we (you and I) are on the same team. Since you've been misrepresented so often by so many people, maybe it's time to change up the delivery? Not everything is part of a dark shadows conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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