Hedge Posted September 21, 2019 Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, GG said: Your explanation doesn't differ too much from Comey and CO's rationale against Trump. Take a step back and read it from a deferential angle. Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, actual corruption (Biden) vs manufactured corruption (Russia Gate) is a significant difference. 1
GG Posted September 21, 2019 Posted September 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Hedge said: Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, actual corruption (Biden) vs manufactured corruption (Russia Gate) is a significant difference. That is beside the point, and Biden’s will get their dues. The appearance right now is more important, and it certainly looks like Trump is using Federal resources to investigate a political rival.
DC Tom Posted September 21, 2019 Posted September 21, 2019 38 minutes ago, GG said: That is beside the point, and Biden’s will get their dues. The appearance right now is more important, and it certainly looks like Trump is using Federal resources to investigate a political rival. Which, given Trump's history of uber-trolling, makes me wonder if this isn't another setup to get Democrats to decry that which they've supported up to now. 2 1
John Adams Posted September 21, 2019 Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: Which, given Trump's history of uber-trolling, makes me wonder if this isn't another setup to get Democrats to decry that which they've supported up to now. It’s one thing to troll (great use of presidential power), it’s another thing to actually do it. Grotesque even for Trump. It’s what we get with an impulsive man-child in office. Only wish the Ds were offering a decent alternative. Edited September 21, 2019 by John Adams
snafu Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 3 hours ago, DC Tom said: Which, given Trump's history of uber-trolling, makes me wonder if this isn't another setup to get Democrats to decry that which they've supported up to now. Actually, also a setup to get the press to talk about Biden’s corruption — which was largely ignored or brushed aside up until this week. 3
DC Tom Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, snafu said: Actually, also a setup to get the press to talk about Biden’s corruption — which was largely ignored or brushed aside up until this week. Not just that...but what other stories might relate to "using government resources to target a political opponent?" 2
John Adams Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Not just that...but what other stories might relate to "using government resources to target a political opponent?" "They did it, so can I" is not the right way to lead and govern. It's Trumpian way though.
DC Tom Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, John Adams said: "They did it, so can I" is not the right way to lead and govern. It's Trumpian way though. And the Obama way, and the Bush way... Pretending this bull#### is unique to the Candied Yam in Chief is disingenuous. 1
John Adams Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, DC Tom said: And the Obama way, and the Bush way... Pretending this bull#### is unique to the Candied Yam in Chief is disingenuous. Outside of GG, most here (ignoring Tibs...because) aren't criticizing it and some love it.
Deranged Rhino Posted September 22, 2019 Author Posted September 22, 2019 6 hours ago, GG said: The appearance right now is more important, and it certainly looks like Trump is using Federal resources to investigate a political rival. I understand what you're saying, and in normal times I would say your point is strong. But these aren't normal times by any definition. Take my personal opinions on the coup out of the picture for the moment and focus just on the speed in which the media/news cycle moves. Things which in the very recent past would live on in the country's memory as major moments are gone/replaced within weeks -- if not days or even hours. Trump knows he can take this jab and not only survive, but use it to set up a counter-punch because of the looming IG report which is (finally) about to be unleashed. Even if the IG report only lays out the facts, without referrals for indictments, as a political weapon the damage that is about to be done to his opposing party is going to wipe this story from the news cycle and collective memory of the public. Even if the topic does return to the Ukraine, the focus will be on Clinton/Obama/Biden and what they were up to -- not Trump asking the Ukrainians to look into the very corruption which Horowitz will lay out for the whole country to see. Trump is baiting the hook with this -- either by folly or by design. And it's already working. 4 hours ago, John Adams said: It’s one thing to troll (great use of presidential power), it’s another thing to actually do it. Grotesque even for Trump. Going with the theme -- if these were normal times, I'd agree with you. But these aren't normal times. The President of the United States just survived a 3 year attempted coup which played out in plain sight of the public and the media completely ignored or ridiculed/downplayed. There's no honest messenger or mechanism which presents information in a non biased way anymore. And sure, maybe there never was such an objective mechanism in the past but there was the appearance of one. Trump's use of twitter, as grotesque as it may be to the social norms of our politics past, is his only way to "steer" the media. Because whatever he tweets, they'll cover. Even to ridicule it. And the more "trollish" the tweet, the bigger the coverage. Grotesque or not, it's become one of his most potent political weapons -- and draws a ton of attention to topics which otherwise would get ignored. ...Like Biden and the Ukraine. Biden and China. Hate the game, not the player. Politics is a contact sport. 1 hour ago, snafu said: Actually, also a setup to get the press to talk about Biden’s corruption — which was largely ignored or brushed aside up until this week. 100% 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: Not just that...but what other stories might relate to "using government resources to target a political opponent?" Bingo. This is about drawing attention to that exact abuse right before the FISA report drops and Horowitz appears before the Senate. This accomplishes many goals at once, but mostly it generates a national conversation in the media about the 2020 election and abusing power to go after a rival right before a damning report about that very same abuse being done in 2016 drops. The last news cycle and the next several coming up will undoubtedly provide a ton of opportunities to clip segments from talk shows, news reports, and campaign speeches and use them in 2020 Trump campaign spots highlighting the hypocrisy. He's letting them dig their own graves in public, and will cash in on it come 2020's campaign blitz. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 11 hours ago, GG said: That is beside the point, and Biden’s will get their dues. The appearance right now is more important, and it certainly looks like Trump is using Federal resources to investigate a political rival. About damned time. His political opponents have been using federal resources to try and remove him from office since before he started. 1
3rdnlng Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: About damned time. His political opponents have been using federal resources to try and remove him from office since before he started. Horseshit! Trump asking a foreign government to investigate something they already should have investigated is perfectly ok and is nothing like what the dems and media tried to do to Trump. Regardless, why do you always want to usurp our constitution and suggest one illegal action deserves another illegal action? The only way to continue enjoying our republic is to adhere to and enforce others to adhere to our constitution, not go all in on anarchy.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Horseshit! Trump asking a foreign government to investigate something they already should have investigated is perfectly ok and is nothing like what the dems and media tried to do to Trump. Regardless, why do you always want to usurp our constitution and suggest one illegal action deserves another illegal action? The only way to continue enjoying our republic is to adhere to and enforce others to adhere to our constitution, not go all in on anarchy. Because the left is THE threat to the continued existence of our society. They will, if given the opportunity, destroy us from within.
3rdnlng Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Because the left is THE threat to the continued existence of our society. They will, if given the opportunity, destroy us from within. Fight fire with water, not more fire.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Fight fire with water, not more fire. Sometimes fire IS used to fight fire. And explosives, to boot.
Foxx Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said: Because the left is THE threat to the continued existence of our society. They will, if given the opportunity, destroy us from within. i suspect we are already destroyed. we just don't see it it in full focus yet.
John Adams Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said: Horseshit! Trump asking a foreign government to investigate something they already should have investigated is perfectly ok and is nothing like what the dems and media tried to do to Trump. Regardless, why do you always want to usurp our constitution and suggest one illegal action deserves another illegal action? The only way to continue enjoying our republic is to adhere to and enforce others to adhere to our constitution, not go all in on anarchy. Your point is mine as well. We agree: Now examining my entire life. What Comey and others did was terrible and if a case can be made, it should be. But what Trump did is terrible, and makes the US seem like a South American puppet country. 2 minutes ago, Foxx said: i suspect we are already destroyed. we just don't see it it in full focus yet. DOOOOOOOOOOMed At some point, maybe 330 million Americans will realize how great our lives are instead of manufacturing all this discord. Heartbreaking to see. Edited September 22, 2019 by John Adams
Foxx Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, John Adams said: ... DOOOOOOOOOOMed At some point, maybe 330 million Americans will realize how great our lives are instead of manufacturing all this discord. Heartbreaking to see. when one half of the country hates the other half, crumbling like a block wall with badly mixed mortar is inevitable. yes, i blame the main stream prostitutes.
3rdnlng Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, John Adams said: Your point is mine as well. We agree: Now examining my entire life. What Comey and others did was terrible and if a case can be made, it should be. But what Trump did is terrible, and makes the US seem like a South American puppet country. DOOOOOOOOOOMed At some point, maybe 330 million Americans will realize how great our lives are instead of manufacturing all this discord. Heartbreaking to see. What did Trump do that was proven terrible? The only information you have is speculation, and we know how that has worked out over the last 3 years.
John Adams Posted September 22, 2019 Posted September 22, 2019 Just now, 3rdnlng said: What did Trump do that was proven terrible? The only information you have is speculation, and we know how that has worked out over the last 3 years. I’ll ignore his attorney’s admission and ask this: *If* he asked another country’s president to investigate the Dem frontrunner, would you call for impeachment? Censure? Fair game for a Republican feeding frenzy and remove him as nominee?
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