The Deep State War Heats Up :ph34r:

[Deranged Rhino]

10 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

I just wanna know who runs the deep state. Probably Soros. Is it Soros?

 

While I know this isn't a serious question, it has been asked by others (and answered) - but who knows how far back you have to go to find it. For those interested: 

 

The Deep State, when this thread started, was not a commonly used term - let alone an accepted theory. Since late 2016 it's entered the zeitgeist and now has become even more bastardized and misused as a cover-all for every conspiracy theory or its dismissal. I chose the term back in the OP because I was focused on the domestic side of a larger operation and the term didn't have a ton of baggage since it wasn't in common usage. Now we sit here on the precipice of 2019 and the phrase has more baggage than my last three girlfriends combined. 

 

The way the term "Deep State" is used in relation to Trump/Russia focuses on unelected officials in alphabet agencies and departments of the federal government who serve their own interests (or partisan interests) over the country's or the people's. GG ascribes it to Obama hold overs, or Bush holdovers prior (others do as well, I just remember GG saying that way back when) - and he is correct in many ways. Nine times out of ten the "Deep State", as defined as such, isn't dangerous as much as the source of gridlock. Often it's associated with corruption as these unelected officials profit from the bureaucratic fiefdoms they've created for themselves throughout their careers. Other times, when it manifests in the form of the top four officials in the DOJ (Comey, McCabe, Bruce Ohr, Peter Strzok and others), it results in a two tiered justice system that protects its own at the expense of our system of justice and the people. So using "Deep State" in terms of the Russia scandal is entirely appropriate for most conversations. 

 

But it's not a complete picture or definition. That's why I prefer to use the term "cabal", though now that word is becoming so common it too is collecting baggage. The "cabal" consists of many different groups, including the Deep State as described above. But most of it is based in the IC and private sectors across the globe. It's a global crime syndicate essentially - who through great access, power, and wealth have the ability to steer the foreign policy agendas and domestic agendas of many nations to their benefit. It's not an American creation nor is it the creation of any one nation state or people. It's organized crime - which is why it's best to think of it as a mafia with different families. They often don't get along, fight with one another more than not, but they all agree that it's better for business to remain in the shadows rather than in the sunlight.

 

The OP of this thread describes what I believe is really behind a lot of the craziness we've seen play out in the media over the past two years. Regardless of whether or not you subscribe to this theory, it's pretty hard to debate we are living in strange times where traditional norms are being overturned and the reaction to it (on all sides) is hysteria rather than reason. I suggest, and have provided a wealth of evidence (and will continue to do so) to support it, that starting in 2013/2014 this cabal began a global civil war within its own membership. While this cabal is comprised of many different "families", one family had been in charge of essentially "the west" for the last 70 years or so. And this group, which is global but has it's power base in DC and London (financial capital/military capital) - is being shown the door by a rival faction. This spilled over to the mainstream in undeniable fashion with the 2016 Brexit vote, then Trump's surprising win. 

 

Sounds nuts. But imagine for a moment that what I laid out above is true: That there was a "cabal" in control of our country with the ability to exert unquestioned influence in both the political sphere and the media/entertainment sphere. Make it as absurd as you wish, let's say it's "The Live" for the purposes of this hypothetical exercise. What would it look like in a world where one group had that much control and suddenly found itself opposed by someone with the ability to remove them from power/influence? Wouldn't the powers-that-were spend as much energy and money possible to paint the opposition as not just the wrong choice, but evil/Hitler/the Orange Horse of the Apocalypse? 

 

To summarize, there are many heads and many different "families" who make up the cabal. They had followed the lead of one dominant faction up until 2016, now we are witnessing a changing of the guard. Who is the new faction at the wheel? I'm still trying to deduce that answer. Whoever it is, it's not "Trump". It's the people behind Trump (who aren't Russians or Putin agents - they seem to largely be military intelligence from multiple nations... which, is a story in and of itself). 

[TH3]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

While I know this isn't a serious question, it has been asked by others (and answered) - but who knows how far back you have to go to find it. For those interested: 

 

The Deep State, when this thread started, was not a commonly used term - let alone an accepted theory. Since late 2016 it's entered the zeitgeist and now has become even more bastardized and misused as a cover-all for every conspiracy theory or its dismissal. I chose the term back in the OP because I was focused on the domestic side of a larger operation and the term didn't have a ton of baggage since it wasn't in common usage. Now we sit here on the precipice of 2019 and the phrase has more baggage than my last three girlfriends combined. 

 

The way the term "Deep State" is used in relation to Trump/Russia focuses on unelected officials in alphabet agencies and departments of the federal government who serve their own interests (or partisan interests) over the country's or the people's. GG ascribes it to Obama hold overs, or Bush holdovers prior (others do as well, I just remember GG saying that way back when) - and he is correct in many ways. Nine times out of ten the "Deep State", as defined as such, isn't dangerous as much as the source of gridlock. Often it's associated with corruption as these unelected officials profit from the bureaucratic fiefdoms they've created for themselves throughout their careers. Other times, when it manifests in the form of the top four officials in the DOJ (Comey, McCabe, Bruce Ohr, Peter Strzok and others), it results in a two tiered justice system that protects its own at the expense of our system of justice and the people. So using "Deep State" in terms of the Russia scandal is entirely appropriate for most conversations. 

 

But it's not a complete picture or definition. That's why I prefer to use the term "cabal", though now that word is becoming so common it too is collecting baggage. The "cabal" consists of many different groups, including the Deep State as described above. But most of it is based in the IC and private sectors across the globe. It's a global crime syndicate essentially - who through great access, power, and wealth have the ability to steer the foreign policy agendas and domestic agendas of many nations to their benefit. It's not an American creation nor is it the creation of any one nation state or people. It's organized crime - which is why it's best to think of it as a mafia with different families. They often don't get along, fight with one another more than not, but they all agree that it's better for business to remain in the shadows rather than in the sunlight.

 

The OP of this thread describes what I believe is really behind a lot of the craziness we've seen play out in the media over the past two years. Regardless of whether or not you subscribe to this theory, it's pretty hard to debate we are living in strange times where traditional norms are being overturned and the reaction to it (on all sides) is hysteria rather than reason. I suggest, and have provided a wealth of evidence (and will continue to do so) to support it, that starting in 2013/2014 this cabal began a global civil war within its own membership. While this cabal is comprised of many different "families", one family had been in charge of essentially "the west" for the last 70 years or so. And this group, which is global but has it's power base in DC and London (financial capital/military capital) - is being shown the door by a rival faction. This spilled over to the mainstream in undeniable fashion with the 2016 Brexit vote, then Trump's surprising win. 

 

Sounds nuts. But imagine for a moment that what I laid out above is true: That there was a "cabal" in control of our country with the ability to exert unquestioned influence in both the political sphere and the media/entertainment sphere. Make it as absurd as you wish, let's say it's "The Live" for the purposes of this hypothetical exercise. What would it look like in a world where one group had that much control and suddenly found itself opposed by someone with the ability to remove them from power/influence? Wouldn't the powers-that-were spend as much energy and money possible to paint the opposition as not just the wrong choice, but evil/Hitler/the Orange Horse of the Apocalypse? 

 

To summarize, there are many heads and many different "families" who make up the cabal. They had followed the lead of one dominant faction up until 2016, now we are witnessing a changing of the guard. Who is the new faction at the wheel? I'm still trying to deduce that answer. Whoever it is, it's not "Trump". It's the people behind Trump (who aren't Russians or Putin agents - they seem to largely be military intelligence from multiple nations... which, is a story in and of itself). 

Your a idiot

[Buffalo_Gal]

7 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Your a idiot

*you're an

edited - I'm beginning to think you are doing that on purpose
 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Buffalo_Gal

[boyst]

3 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

We tolerate Boyst.  Not the same thing.  

Yeah?  You wouldn't say that to my face!

[Kevbeau]

4 hours ago, TH3 said:

Your a idiot

That was constructive.

[DC Tom]

11 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

Yeah?  You wouldn't say that to my face!

 

Of course not.  Your face is intolerable.  

[Hirly5]

13 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

But it's not a complete picture or definition. That's why I prefer to use the term "cabal", though now that word is becoming so common it too is collecting baggage. The "cabal" consists of many different groups, including the Deep State as described above. But most of it is based in the IC and private sectors across the globe. It's a global crime syndicate essentially - who through great access, power, and wealth have the ability to steer the foreign policy agendas and domestic agendas of many nations to their benefit. It's not an American creation nor is it the creation of any one nation state or people. It's organized crime - which is why it's best to think of it as a mafia with different families. They often don't get along, fight with one another more than not, but they all agree that it's better for business to remain in the shadows rather than in the sunlight.

 

There was a tv show on AMC in 2010 called Rubicon.  It only lasted one season but I thought it was fantastic.  The shows concept is basically the same as what you laid out in this paragraph.

[boyst]

55 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Of course not.  Your face is intolerable.  

So...

Boyst 1

DC dumbass 0

 

And you call yourself samrt. ?. Idiot.

[3rdnlng]

30 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

So...

Boyst 1

DC dumbass 0

 

And you call yourself samrt. ?. Idiot.

Obviously you don't understand the game he is playing. He's playing the sport of golf where a lower score is beneficial. It pains me to stick up for him but sport is sport. That wouldn't keep me from warning him not to shank it if I ever see him on the course though.

[DC Tom]

57 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

So...

Boyst 1

DC dumbass 0

 

And you call yourself samrt. ?. Idiot.

 

It's "smrt," you idoit.

[boyst]

6 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

It's "smrt," you idoit.

Only if you're French. And you look like a coward. So you're also French, you idôit

Edited December 19, 2018 by Boyst62

[Deranged Rhino]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/19/us-wants-to-pull-troops-from-syria-as-trump-declares-victory-over-isis.html

 

This is why Trump is a threat to establishment DC and its foreign politics preferences. 

[GG]

14 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

....

The way the term "Deep State" is used in relation to Trump/Russia focuses on unelected officials in alphabet agencies and departments of the federal government who serve their own interests (or partisan interests) over the country's or the people's. GG ascribes it to Obama hold overs, or Bush holdovers prior (others do as well, I just remember GG saying that way back when) - and he is correct in many ways. Nine times out of ten the "Deep State", as defined as such, isn't dangerous as much as the source of gridlock. Often it's associated with corruption as these unelected officials profit from the bureaucratic fiefdoms they've created for themselves throughout their careers. Other times, when it manifests in the form of the top four officials in the DOJ (Comey, McCabe, Bruce Ohr, Peter Strzok and others), it results in a two tiered justice system that protects its own at the expense of our system of justice and the people. So using "Deep State" in terms of the Russia scandal is entirely appropriate for most conversations. 

 

But it's not a complete picture or definition. That's why I prefer to use the term "cabal", though now that word is becoming so common it too is collecting baggage. The "cabal" consists of many different groups, including the Deep State as described above. But most of it is based in the IC and private sectors across the globe. It's a global crime syndicate essentially - who through great access, power, and wealth have the ability to steer the foreign policy agendas and domestic agendas of many nations to their benefit. It's not an American creation nor is it the creation of any one nation state or people. It's organized crime - which is why it's best to think of it as a mafia with different families. They often don't get along, fight with one another more than not, but they all agree that it's better for business to remain in the shadows rather than in the sunlight.

.....

 

 

Despite all the hype, there's still more compelling evidence that the palace coup was orchestrated by a select number of holdovers who thought they were protecting the country from the bad orange man.  There's very little actual evidence that the plot extends far beyond the cone of Obama admin.

 

If the Deep State is as wide and deep as you contend, why is Trump still alive?

[boyst]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Despite all the hype, there's still more compelling evidence that the palace coup was orchestrated by a select number of holdovers who thought they were protecting the country from the bad orange man.  There's very little actual evidence that the plot extends far beyond the cone of Obama admin.

 

If the Deep State is as wide and deep as you contend, why is Trump still alive?

I know this is not directed at me, and I am using voice to text... So bear with me for a minute.

 

But I have thought about this, too. I believe the only answer for that is Mike sympathetical. That if they were to assassinate him or immobilize him then it would galvanize the conservative Hayes and motivate those in the middle. However, if this deep state is is far down as they're saying I couldn't see why they would not take some whack-job and frame him as a solid GOP type who went too far. 

 

I'll be curious to see what tranny Greg says

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

I know this is not directed at me, and I am using voice to text... So bear with me for a minute.

 

But I have thought about this, too. I believe the only answer for that is Mike sympathetical. That if they were to assassinate him or immobilize him then it would galvanize the conservative Hayes and motivate those in the middle. However, if this deep state is is far down as they're saying I couldn't see why they would not take some whack-job and frame him as a solid GOP type who went too far. 

 

I'll be curious to see what tranny Greg says

 

Greggy will come up with a convenient explanation of why Deep State keeps Trump alive, and it will be counter-intuitive to the existence of a global apparatus that's supposedly enslaved entire nations for decades, yet can't handle an overweight orange man with a predilection for fast food.

[boyst]

Just now, GG said:

 

Greggy will come up with a convenient explanation of why Deep State keeps Trump alive, and it will be counter-intuitive to the existence of a global apparatus that's supposedly enslaved entire nations for decades, yet can't handle an overweight orange man with a predilection for fast food.

Inb4 dev brings up Demolition Man

[Nanker]

8 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Despite all the hype, there's still more compelling evidence that the palace coup was orchestrated by a select number of holdovers who thought they were protecting the country from the bad orange man.  There's very little actual evidence that the plot extends far beyond the cone of Obama admin.

 

If the Deep State is as wide and deep as you contend, why is Trump still alive?

Just a hunch, but I'd bet that about 95% of the "deep state" are just bureaucrats that are stuck in a rut that began in their early twenties or when they joined the government service. They're old school, and school's been out for decades and they haven't learned anything beyond their original loyalties. 

Most of those folks would never be in a position to off someone, but they'd likely turn a blind eye or some would even bend over backwards to thwart an Administration they find anathema to their world view.

The top old dogs in the IC are now out (Brenner, Clapper, Comey) and they're the ones that are screaming the loudest about this Administration. While not exactly powerless, they do still have a cadre of loyalists in their former agencies, and I have little doubt that those deep stater underlings are doing the will of their former masters - not just out of loyalty, but because they "know" it's right for the country.

 

My 2¢.

[DC Tom]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Greggy will come up with a convenient explanation of why Deep State keeps Trump alive, and it will be counter-intuitive to the existence of a global apparatus that's supposedly enslaved entire nations for decades, yet can't handle an overweight orange man with a predilection for fast food.

 

He's still alive because the Deep State needs an antagonist to get the people behind their attempts at power consolidation.  Just one example of such: Trump and his supporters, with their tweets, have convinced a wide swath of his detractors that speech should be regulated and even silenced if it disagrees with them.  That plays right in to the Deep State's hands.

 

Trump's the best thing that ever happened to them.  Instead of fighting for an abstract agenda, they fight against a concrete enemy.  He's far too useful.

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Nanker said:

Just a hunch, but I'd bet that about 95% of the "deep state" are just bureaucrats that are stuck in a rut that began in their early twenties or when they joined the government service. They're old school, and school's been out for decades and they haven't learned anything beyond their original loyalties. 

Most of those folks would never be in a position to off someone, but they'd likely turn a blind eye or some would even bend over backwards to thwart an Administration they find anathema to their world view.

The top old dogs in the IC are now out (Brenner, Clapper, Comey) and they're the ones that are screaming the loudest about this Administration. While not exactly powerless, they do still have a cadre of loyalists in their former agencies, and I have little doubt that those deep stater underlings are doing the will of their former masters - not just out of loyalty, but because they "know" it's right for the country.

 

My 2¢.

 

This is closer to my definition of the deep state, which is largely the massive DC bureaucracy which is nearly impossible to dislodge.  Funny how no one batted an eye when Obama & his cronies called it the Blob.   That deep state/blob is not the same as the global cabal that Greggy defines as the Deep State that controls the world.

[DC Tom]

5 minutes ago, Nanker said:

Just a hunch, but I'd bet that about 95% of the "deep state" are just bureaucrats that are stuck in a rut that began in their early twenties or when they joined the government service. They're old school, and school's been out for decades and they haven't learned anything beyond their original loyalties. 

Most of those folks would never be in a position to off someone, but they'd likely turn a blind eye or some would even bend over backwards to thwart an Administration they find anathema to their world view.

The top old dogs in the IC are now out (Brenner, Clapper, Comey) and they're the ones that are screaming the loudest about this Administration. While not exactly powerless, they do still have a cadre of loyalists in their former agencies, and I have little doubt that those deep stater underlings are doing the will of their former masters - not just out of loyalty, but because they "know" it's right for the country.

 

My 2¢.

 

Seriously...my intetpretation of "Deep State" has always been "the civil service government bureaucracy."  Bureaucracy is always self-sustaining and ready to defend itself...and after the politicization of parts of it under Obama, it was primed to do so in partisan form.

 

But it doesn't move in organized fashion.  It's moves in the direction defined by the brownian pressure of several million individual, uncoordinated thoughts, and is less a grand conspiracy than the proverbial diarhhetic elephant.