The Deep State War Heats Up :ph34r:

[3rdnlng]

18 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i hope your wrong, Tom. i don't doubt it, but ...

Stranger things have happened. Manufacturing jobs will never return. The economy will never do better than a 2% growth rate. We're on our way to war with The Best Korea. Trump will beat Hillary.

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

just a personal observation i'd like to give voice to. it may be obvious to most but incase it isn't to some....

 

i believe we are in a war here. a war for the hearts and minds of the free world, of which the outcome of humanity hangs in the balance. should we lose this war, we are all !@#$ed. my children, your grandchildren... humanity's children. if we lose, you are guilty until proven innocent. facts won't matter. the only thing that will matter is how they can spin the truth and implant reality into your mind. we are already there and that is what this life and death struggle is all about. do we go over the edge completely and plunge into the abyss of which there will be no return or do we grab a firm handhold on the edge and pull ourselves up and back away from the ledge.

 

i'm not saying i agree with any/all of the crap that either side of the equation is putting forth, as i mainly believe the entire political spectrum is nothing more than bread and circuses meant to be a dog and pony show of the highest order to drive that old divide and conquor strategy as deep as they can get it. however, there is the left and right hand of the duality at odds with each other here that is fighting for the very soul of humanity. the semantics of it all isn't really important, what is important is that one stands for what they believe in their inner being to be right. I won't try to sit here and tell you what that is within this post, you need to look inward and be truthful with yourself and come to your own conclusions.

 

perhaps one day that inner being will wake up enough to tell these !@#$s that we don't need their externalized saviour asshatted selves to save us. that we have the power to save ourselves. !@#$ the elite and the horses they rode in on, they are not above me and they certainly are not above you, though they certainly think they are. when that hundredth monkee awakens, they had better watch out. please let it be sooner than later.

 

apologies for the rant, i just had to get it out.

I think we are fine. There are so many different things going on, so many interests, so many divisions of power that its impossible for anyone to conqure anything. I really think things are getting better all around, prosperity, personal freedoms, less crime and more opportunities for pursuing our own interests and goals. There is a lot of noise, a lot of "this is the most important event ever!" stuff. I hope I am right. 

[Nanker]

32 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

I think we've already lost, frankly.  It's over except for the shooting.

Sure, but  

[BeginnersMind]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

just a personal observation i'd like to give voice to. it may be obvious to most but incase it isn't to some....

 

i believe we are in a war here. a war for the hearts and minds of the free world, of which the outcome of humanity hangs in the balance. should we lose this war, we are all !@#$ed. my children, your grandchildren... humanity's children. if we lose, you are guilty until proven innocent. facts won't matter. the only thing that will matter is how they can spin the truth and implant reality into your mind. we are already there and that is what this life and death struggle is all about. do we go over the edge completely and plunge into the abyss of which there will be no return or do we grab a firm handhold on the edge and pull ourselves up and back away from the ledge.

 

i'm not saying i agree with any/all of the crap that either side of the equation is putting forth, as i mainly believe the entire political spectrum is nothing more than bread and circuses meant to be a dog and pony show of the highest order to drive that old divide and conquor strategy as deep as they can get it. however, there is the left and right hand of the duality at odds with each other here that is fighting for the very soul of humanity. the semantics of it all isn't really important, what is important is that one stands for what they believe in their inner being to be right. I won't try to sit here and tell you what that is within this post, you need to look inward and be truthful with yourself and come to your own conclusions.

 

perhaps one day that inner being will wake up enough to tell these !@#$s that we don't need their externalized saviour asshatted selves to save us. that we have the power to save ourselves. !@#$ the elite and the horses they rode in on, they are not above me and they certainly are not above you, though they certainly think they are. when that hundredth monkee awakens, they had better watch out. please let it be sooner than later.

 

apologies for the rant, i just had to get it out.

 

Serious inquiry: Don't you think every generation has lots of people who say and believe variations of what you believe? And each one just says it with the groupthink worry that dominates their particular cohort? Whether the rapture is coming, morals are in decline, global cooling/warming, acid rain, savages on the frontier, the apocalypse, the Mayan calendar, the Russians ("Wolverine!), nukes, Y2K? Does it strike you that we humans are a given to thinking "our" time is the worst, but only every generation since at least the Greeks, who had the same complaints? 

 

I bring this up from time to time and get mocked here, but I posit that as a species, we've never had it so good, over almost any measurable metric. That doesn't mean that I'm a Pollyanna saying that we don't have problems to solve. It's just that it's human nature to fear a crisis, over-worry, etc. It was really important to be that way when a bear might be in the bush over there--and that worry instinct kept the gene pool alive--but it's not adapted particularly well to the modern world. See, e.g., Prozac, backaches, ulcers...

 

100 years ago, people who shared my last name were a paycheck and/or bad harvest away from starving every week. Yours probably did too. 

[Foxx]

12 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

I think we are fine. There are so many different things going on, so many interests, so many divisions of power that its impossible for anyone to conqure anything. I really think things are getting better all around, prosperity, personal freedoms, less crime and more opportunities for pursuing our own interests and goals. There is a lot of noise, a lot of "this is the most important event ever!" stuff. I hope I am right. 

you may be right and i do hope you're right, Tibs.

 

i often try, as a good thought experiment at the very least and a healthy perspective exercize at most, to try to look at things under a different light. one of the other ways i try to look at this whole menagerie is that we are indeed moving along to a better place. one where humanity is becoming freer to pursue higher spiritual aspirations. if technology moves along at the right trajectory, we could certainly see a better future. there will undoubtedly be growing pains as we move into that new age as there always is when the previous age is abandoned to wither on the vine.

 

the one aprehension i have to that utopian view is that i have a hard time seeing past the elites propensity and belief that we are nothing more than chatel. i believe universe is going to have to intervene if we are ever going to breakaway from their control.

[DC Tom]

10 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

100 years ago, people who shared my last name were a paycheck and/or bad harvest away from starving every week. Yours probably did too. 

 

Most people still are.  The country as a whole is maybe 30 days from a starvation-fueled revolution at any given time.

[Foxx]

12 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

Serious inquiry: Don't you think every generation has lots of people who say and believe variations of what you believe? And each one just says it with the groupthink worry that dominates their particular cohort? Whether the rapture is coming, morals are in decline, global cooling/warming, acid rain, savages on the frontier, the apocalypse, the Mayan calendar, the Russians ("Wolverine!), nukes, Y2K? Does it strike you that we humans are a given to thinking "our" time is the worst, but only every generation since at least the Greeks, who had the same complaints? 

 

I bring this up from time to time and get mocked here, but I posit that as a species, we've never had it so good, over almost any measurable metric. That doesn't mean that I'm a Pollyanna saying that we don't have problems to solve. It's just that it's human nature to fear a crisis, over-worry, etc. It was really important to be that way when a bear might be in the bush over there--and that worry instinct kept the gene pool alive--but it's not adapted particularly well to the modern world. See, e.g., Prozac, backaches, ulcers...

 

100 years ago, people who shared my last name were a paycheck and/or bad harvest away from starving every week. Yours probably did too. 

i have no need to mock you, as long as the discussion is honest and you are consistent within it.

 

what you allude to here is a valid argument. yes, i do believe that each generation, because of their limited perspective see each coming generation as so much worse than theirs. there is some validation to that argument to my way of thinking however. we we better off before the television invade our consciousness? in many ways i think we were. i think man was much more personable then than we are today. we relied upon one another for our entertainment to help us live out our days as it were. were we better off before the industrial revolution? again in many respects, i would say we were. before the invention of industrial manufacture, we relied upon one another to help one another survive. we need only look no farther than the Amish around this neck of the woods to see how they provide support for one another. when a member of the community wants a barn on their land, the community gathers together  and a couple days later, that individual has a barn erected when just a short period of time before there was nothing.

 

of course there is the other side of that equation. have these technological advances freed man enough to allow for the pursuit of greater aspirations, sure. have there been and are there growing pains associated with this shrugging off of burdens, definately. i would posit however that with each advance, comes greater peril involved. afterall, when when gunpowder was just invented, it took somewhere between three and four minutes between shots being fired to get reloaded. today, how many shots can one fire in three minutes?

 

are we better off today than we were yesterday, yes and no. are we now closer to the abyss, yes and no. at some point there will be a valid tipping point. we may not be anywhere near it but i suspect we are. we are resilient suckers though....

 

 

20 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Most people still are.  The country as a whole is maybe 30 days from a starvation-fueled revolution at any given time.

with the JiT (just in time) system we have today, it may be as little as 2 weeks out.

[Prickly Pete]

I live in California, and am surrounded by anti-Trump people. None of them are anywhere near desperate enough to risk their lives in some kind of "Resistance" conflict. Their lives are going along fine, and they know it, but won't admit it. It's all bluster, and really, none of them would be willing to get punched, let alone shot.

[Koko78]

41 minutes ago, Foxx said:

with the JiT (just in time) system we have today, it may be as little as 2 weeks out.

 

If there were ever a national catastrophe/zombie apocalypse, the first place I'm going to loot is the local farm supply store. I'm going to grab as many packages of seeds as I can, while everyone fights at the grocery store over the last can of lima beans.

 

6-8 weeks later, they'll be calling me King Koko78 (or the peasants can starve to death)!

Edited September 19, 2018 by Koko78

[BeginnersMind]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

i have no need to mock you, as long as the discussion is honest and you are consistent within it.

 

what you allude to here is a valid argument. yes, i do believe that each generation, because of their limited perspective see each coming generation as so much worse than theirs. there is some validation to that argument to my way of thinking however. we we better off before the television invade our consciousness? in many ways i think we were. i think man was much more personable then than we are today. we relied upon one another for our entertainment to help us live out our days as it were. were we better off before the industrial revolution? again in many respects, i would say we were. before the invention of industrial manufacture, we relied upon one another to help one another survive. we need only look no farther than the Amish around this neck of the woods to see how they provide support for one another. when a member of the community wants a barn on their land, the community gathers together  and a couple days later, that individual has a barn erected when just a short period of time before there was nothing.

 

of course there is the other side of that equation. have these technological advances freed man enough to allow for the pursuit of greater aspirations, sure. have there been and are there growing pains associated with this shrugging off of burdens, definately. i would posit however that with each advance, comes greater peril involved. afterall, when when gunpowder was just invented, it took somewhere between three and four minutes between shots being fired to get reloaded. today, how many shots can one fire in three minutes?

 

are we better off today than we were yesterday, yes and no. are we now closer to the abyss, yes and no. at some point there will be a valid tipping point. we may not be anywhere near it but i suspect we are. we are resilient suckers though....

 

 

 

I apologize for my initial disclaimer asking for a sincere response. The last time I brought the topic up of the myriad of ways the world is a better place today than it ever has been, it devolved into a mockery session (you can probably imagine it). I'm fine with that, in that I don't bruise easily, but it was not a productive discussion.

 

I understand your point RE technology. Some technology comes with perils, and the perils that most concern me sound like those that most concern you, ie, spiritual. "Does this make us better people?" "Better" is not objective but let's stick with some version of we'd know it when we see it and not obsess about grey areas. 

 

Lots of technologies take time to make our lives better, and sometimes make it worse for a period. TV, which was a passive entertainment delivery device, is dying. We are replacing it with a medium that is more interactive. One that requires (for now) literacy to engage. But of course, me talking to you via a keyboard and screen filters our humanity one to another. So when some guy here calls me a mother!@#$er and tells me I'm a liar and he wants to drop the hammer on me...that's just the way his online avatar acts. I don't stand in judgment of him--I've been him hundreds of times and used to live for the moment when I could elicit that response (cheers to me: I pissed someone off so much that they can't help but obsess about me in anger--what a terrible thing to do)--but I'd hope we all work to make it better, and improve this new medium. I mean, think how new this is: 12 years ago, there was no iPhone, 30 years ago, I was "chatting" with other college students on message boards on my Vax account (my first Internet appearance is forever captured online as I sing the praises of OJ...nice!).  So when I look at the incivility, it concerns me, but it's also new, and the interface may change in ways that help us be people again. 

 

That side tangent brought to you by way of saying that there are bad actors, and always have been. But the good people always outnumber the bad, and I retain a rigid faith in them, be they rich or poor. 

 

And I also believe in technology being on the verge of solving many problems that have heretofore been unsolvable. Listing the ways is beyond the scope of this digression in this thread, but there are so many things going in the right direction. 

 

So when I push back on the doom and gloom here at PPP, it's from that perspective. I am so grateful to live in this country and in this time, with more opportunities for my child than in any other generation. And even as far as the Bills go, they are at least a constant: Always sucking...so it doesn't ever gets worse. 

35 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

If there were ever a national catastrophe/zombie apocalypse, the first place I'm going to loot is the local farm supply store. I'm going to grab as many packages of seeds as I can, while everyone fights at the grocery store over the last can of lima beans.

 

6-8 weeks later, they'll be calling me King Koko78 (or the peasants can starve to death)!

 

Zombie calorie consumption issues have never been explained adequately in all the movies and books. Those !@#$ers walk thousands of miles fueled by Carl's forearm? That's what, 4,000 calories? I can buy the rest of the story. 

 

They are easy to avoid anyways: Just slide under a dumpster.

Edited September 19, 2018 by BeginnersMind

[Koko78]

9 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

Zombie calorie consumption issues have never been explained adequately in all them movies and books. Those !@#$ers walk thousands of miles fueled by Carl's forearm? That's what, 4,000 calories? I can buy the rest of the story. 

 

[keepthefaith]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

I think we are fine. There are so many different things going on, so many interests, so many divisions of power that its impossible for anyone to conqure anything. I really think things are getting better all around, prosperity, personal freedoms, less crime and more opportunities for pursuing our own interests and goals. There is a lot of noise, a lot of "this is the most important event ever!" stuff. I hope I am right. 

 

So in other words you're happy with current GOP leadership and stewardship.  Many agree with you.  Things are going pretty well under Trump.  

 

 

2 hours ago, DC Tom said:

I think we've already lost, frankly.  It's over except for the shooting.

 

About 2 dozen bullets would go a long way toward helping our country. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by keepthefaith

[Deranged Rhino]

Worth the time. Click for full thread: 

 

[Tiberius]

24 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

So in other words you're happy with current GOP leadership and stewardship.  Many agree with you.  Things are going pretty well under Trump.  

 

 

 

About 2 dozen bullets would go a long way toward helping our country. 

Lol, no, I just don't think in the long run it all matters that much. Big government works. The bureaucracy and courts and business do operate on a level above whatever current political party is in charge, for the most part. 

And the people, there is a great power in democracy. 

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

And the people, there is a great power in democracy. 

 

Not so great as the power of Russian Facebook posts, though... 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

Not so great as the power of Russian Facebook posts, though... 

 

Tib's stupidity is reaching a new low, it's not even funny anymore, it's just sad and dishonest. 

 

The entire premise of the Russian Collusion narrative is the establishment trying to remove the peoples' right to choose its leaders. He's enthusiastically applauding that (as he applauded dead american soldiers, the increased scope of the surveillance state et al) while throwing out "the people" are the great power in a democracy. 

 

As I said about Baskin: prog-fascists who are too emotionally compromised to realize they're prog-fascists are the most dangerous !@#$ers around. 

[Tiberius]

10 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Not so great as the power of Russian Facebook posts, though... 

Or Russians hacking elections systems, weaponizing stolen emails and compromising candidates. 

 

But all that is happening because murderous Putin is afraid of the people. He sees democracy as his enemy. And he is right. 

11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Tib's stupidity is reaching a new low, it's not even funny anymore, it's just sad and dishonest. 

 

The entire premise of the Russian Collusion narrative is the establishment trying to remove the peoples' right to choose its leaders. He's enthusiastically applauding that (as he applauded dead american soldiers, the increased scope of the surveillance state et al) while throwing out "the people" are the great power in a democracy. 

 

As I said about Baskin: prog-fascists who are too emotionally compromised to realize they're prog-fascists are the most dangerous !@#$ers around. 

Have you found a damn job yet? 

[DC Tom]

11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Tib's stupidity is reaching a new low, it's not even funny anymore, it's just sad and dishonest. 

 

 

Oh, it's cute.  He's so clueless he's trying to have it both ways and can't understand why he can't.  It's a level of cluelessness akin to watching a two year old write a letter to the Easter Bunny.  He's frickin' adorable. 

3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Or Russians hacking elections systems, weaponizing stolen emails and compromising candidates. 

 

But all that is happening because murderous Putin is afraid of the people. He sees democracy as his enemy. And he is right. 

 

"Hold my sippy cup and watch this!"

[donbb]

Zombies? #Vampires are the real threat

[Deranged Rhino]

7 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Have you found a damn job yet? 

 

I'm gainfully employed and have been for years. 

 

But when you can't argue facts, go for fiction. It's the Tibs way. The biggest conspiracy theorist on this board.