oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said: So, should we take this act of war seriously and target Russia's cities? I would attack in cyberspace first and disrupt their communications, business systems, and the like. And if that did not deter their actions then yes. 3 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said: This seems too idealistic and not practical though, if everyone had this thought we would have a lot more war in the world. I think sanctions were an appropriate response to an action that ultimately did nothing Sanctions are weak in my opinion. I am independent; liberal in some things and conservative in others. When it comes to national security I am very hawkish. We have by far the strongest military in the world. As president I would not hesitate to use our military to defend our national security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I would attack in cyberspace first and disrupt their communications, business systems, and the like. And if that did not deter their actions then yes. Sanctions are weak in my opinion. I am independent; liberal in some things and conservative in others. When it comes to national security I am very hawkish. We have by far the strongest military in the world. As president I would not hesitate to use our military to defend our national security. I agree with you in principle. I just think each case should be looked at on its own merits and then determine an appropriate response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I would attack in cyberspace first and disrupt their communications, business systems, and the like. And if that did not deter their actions then yes. I can see where someone might want Facebook shenanigans to escalate into a nuclear war. -) I put a couple minutes into a response to you upthread and you haven't responded. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 On 7/9/2018 at 5:28 PM, /dev/null said: So what will it be this time? Heart attack? Hit & run? Home invasion? Or a good old fashioned double tap suicide? On 7/9/2018 at 10:04 PM, 3rdnlng said: Bear. https://www.ispot.tv/ad/dVwe/spectrum-on-demand-monsters-walk quick little bugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I can see where someone might want Facebook shenanigans to escalate into a nuclear war. -) I put a couple minutes into a response to you upthread and you haven't responded. Why not? I went back and saw your post. You're referring to the apples and oranges, correct? I think we have an experienced prosecutor in Mueller whose job is to figure out exactly what went in with the Russians and the election. We need to let him do his job and when he presents the facts take appropriate action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: I went back and saw your post. You're referring to the apples and oranges, correct? I think we have an experienced prosecutor in Mueller whose job is to figure out exactly what went in with the Russians and the election. We need to let him do his job and when he presents the facts take appropriate action. Yet you are speculating about most everything here regarding the deep state war. Go back and read this entire thread. DR has done a yeoman's job on investigating the deep state and has helped many of us to gain perspective and be more informed than the typical talking head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I would attack in cyberspace first and disrupt their communications, business systems, and the like. And if that did not deter their actions then yes. All technologically advanced countries attempt to interfere in all other nation's elections. Going to war over this reality is absurd. Nations will always act in their own best interests, and the interconnectivity of the world has created massive pockets of overlap and interdependence. Add to that the fact that you're essentially requiring that the world be in a perpetual state of world war; and I reject your argument, as should you after some careful consideration of the realities your preferences would bring to the fore. As an aside, what are your thoughts on the Five Eyes nations conspiring with elements of our own government to fix our federal elections and then assist the losers of that election in a palace coup in order to cover up their crimes? Should we begin the carpet bombing of England, Australia, and Israel; plunging the world into the brutal darkness of nuclear war? Or should this sort of thing be handled on a diplomatic level in order to preserve peace, given the ramifications? Might it make more sense to dole out geo-political retribution, and divest ourselves of some of the interconnectivities of our global intelligence service in order to make this sort of thing harder to do going forward? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: All technologically advanced countries attempt to interfere in all other nation's elections. Going to war over this reality is absurd. Nations will always act in their own best interests, and the interconnectivity of the world has created massive pockets of overlap and interdependence. Add to that the fact that you're essentially requiring that the world be in a perpetual state of world war; and I reject your argument, as should you after some careful consideration of the realities your preferences would bring to the fore. As an aside, what are your thoughts on the Five Eyes nations conspiring with elements of our own government to fix our federal elections and then assist the losers of that election in a palace coup in order to cover up their crimes? Should we begin the carpet bombing of England, Australia, and Israel; plunging the world into the brutal darkness of nuclear war? Or should this sort of thing be handled on a diplomatic level in order to preserve peace, given the ramifications? Might it make more sense to dole out geo-political retribution, and divest ourselves of some of the interconnectivities of our global intelligence service in order to make this sort of thing harder to do going forward? Interesting points. I am not against a diplomatic approach but is that going to work with a guy like Putin? No. Only showing strength deters a guy like Putin. 7 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Yet you are speculating about most everything here regarding the deep state war. Go back and read this entire thread. DR has done a yeoman's job on investigating the deep state and has helped many of us to gain perspective and be more informed than the typical talking head. I looked at a few things he posted. I know some FBI agents and based on that I do not believe the leadership of the FBI is corrupt. Some made bad decisions. Comey for example deserved to be fired. I also agree with DR that freedom of the press is paramount to a democratic society. But do I believe there is a gigantic deep state conspiracy? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 58 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: My wording was confusing. The act of interfering, regardless of effect, violates our democracy. To me that is an act of war. Do you know the name Robert Hannigan? If not, do some digging. You might be surprised what you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Interesting points. I am not against a diplomatic approach but is that going to work with a guy like Putin? No. Only showing strength deters a guy like Putin. You're not going to stop Putin through a show of strength. You can try to neutralize him by hitting the weak points through the energy markets or by squeezing his oligarchs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Interesting points. I am not against a diplomatic approach but is that going to work with a guy like Putin? No. Only showing strength deters a guy like Putin. Please list the benefits of going to war with another nuclear super power. The geo-political steps this Administration has taken in the wake of our election has been a strong rebuke, while at the same time an acknowledgement of the realities of the world, and our involvement in the affairs of other nations. I looked at a few things he posted. I know some FBI agents and based on that I do not believe the leadership of the FBI is corrupt. Some made bad decisions. Comey for example deserved to be fired. I also agree with DR that freedom of the press is paramount to a democratic society. But do I believe there is a gigantic deep state conspiracy? No. I would ask you not to take personal anecdote and scale that upwards across entire organizations. People should not be trusting of power structures, especially those which have demonstrated an abject lack of accountability, and a willingness to insulate themselves from criticism; even more so those which innately manifest themselves with mechanisms which control the flow of information the populous receives, and are empowered to collect and warehouse massive amounts of information about individual citizens. The potential for malfeasance is vast, and the reality is that such fertile ground for corruption will always attract bad actors. Put another way: there were no gentle hearted plantation overseers. I implore you to read through the totality of the evidence that Greg (Deranged Rhino) has presented over the course of the last year plus. If you were to ask him, I'm almost positive he would direct you to a well sourced compendium he has created on this web forum. It's a vital read for anyone who considers themselves to be a concerned and responsible citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Do you know the name Robert Hannigan? If not, do some digging. You might be surprised what you see. I'll check it out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Interesting points. I am not against a diplomatic approach but is that going to work with a guy like Putin? No. Only showing strength deters a guy like Putin. I looked at a few things he posted. I know some FBI agents and based on that I do not believe the leadership of the FBI is corrupt. Some made bad decisions. Comey for example deserved to be fired. I also agree with DR that freedom of the press is paramount to a democratic society. But do I believe there is a gigantic deep state conspiracy? No. This thread is 136 pages. It tells a story so to speak and you cannot get a decent picture by looking at a few things DR posted. You state that you do not believe that there is a deep state conspiracy but you neglect to really look into it. Not a good way to find out the real truth. Edited July 13, 2018 by 3rdnlng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Just now, 3rdnlng said: This thread is 136 pages. It tells a story so to speak and you cannot get a decent picture by looking at a few things DR posted. You state that you do not believe that there is a deep state conspiracy but you neglect to really look into it. Not a good to find out the real truth. DR asked me to read about this Hannibal guy which I will do. I do read a lot and don't have to rely on this thread to form opinions but am always open to more info. Hannigan guy I meant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: DR asked me to read about this Hannibal guy which I will do. I do read a lot and don't have to rely on this thread to form opinions but am always open to more info. Hannigan guy I meant No one is required to read anything in particular in order to form an opinion. Individuals are free to be as uninformed or as misinformed as they want. What I would posit is that there is a very deliberate attempt to control the flow of information to the public in order to cultivate a misinformed public for the purpose of creating a blind spot in which very powerful bad actors act with impunity. Power attracts those whom would seek out power. Ask yourself what sorts of people seek our power, and towards what ends. Use history as your guide. What Greg has done is report news that the state controlled media has failed to report in their efforts to perpetuate the narrative of the powerful. The veil is being torn. It's a vital read. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 22 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: No one is required to read anything in particular in order to form an opinion. Individuals are free to be as uninformed or as misinformed as they want. What I would posit is that there is a very deliberate attempt to control the flow of information to the public in order to cultivate a misinformed public for the purpose of creating a blind spot in which very powerful bad actors act with impunity. Power attracts those whom would seek out power. Ask yourself what sorts of people seek our power, and towards what ends. Use history as your guide. What Greg has done is report news that the state controlled media has failed to report in their efforts to perpetuate the narrative of the powerful. The veil is being torn. It's a vital read. but in this day and age we are free to completely ignore the Dan Rathers of today, we choose to look at them for amusement or some kind of sadistic self-torture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Bray Wyatt said: This seems too idealistic and not practical though, if everyone had this thought we would have a lot more war in the world. I think sanctions were an appropriate response to an action that ultimately did nothing Oldman had no skin in the game. Why should he care if we go to war. He's too old to fight. Let's have a war with Russia and have millions of people suffer and die over facebook. Tibs would love it though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: Do you know the name Robert Hannigan? If not, do some digging. You might be surprised what you see. Just read one interview with him detailing the difficulty in using cyberwarfare to counter information theft. Very interesting, thanks for suggesting his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: Just read one interview with him detailing the difficulty in using cyberwarfare to counter information theft. Very interesting, thanks for suggesting his name. Did you notice when he was fired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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