4merper4mer Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, ALF said: If Putin wants to throw the West into chaos , he is succeeding . jmo LOL. If he has succeeded in throwing anything into chaos it is the morons in the US press and the morons in Congress. The west is transacting business just fine every day while ignoring these buffoons. Newsflash: These morons were in chaos before Putin and they will be in chaos long after he is gone. Because despite whatever lofty positions they have, they are morons.
Tiberius Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 1 minute ago, PearlHowardman said: Here is your evidence. When do we bring Treason charges against former President Barack Obama? DR has posted that many times. Politicians have more flexibility after elections, that Poli Sci 101 duh!
PearlHowardman Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Hillary, Hillary, Hillary!! Trump TV all day! Are you just DR signed in under another name? The Bill and Hillary Clinton 2016 US Presidential election scam failed. Strozk, Comey, illegal FISA warrants, etc, were all a part of the failed Clinton election scam. 5 minutes ago, Tiberius said: DR has posted that many times. Politicians have more flexibility after elections, that Poli Sci 101 duh! Wrong! Obama committed Treason (or High Treason) when he suggested that RUSSIA change their nuclear plans. That helped Obama win the 2012 US Presidential election. Obama needs to go to jail! Edited July 13, 2018 by PearlHowardman
Tiberius Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 1 minute ago, PearlHowardman said: The Bill and Hillary Clinton 2016 US Presidential election scam failed. Strozk, Comey, illegal FISA warrants, etc, were all a part of the failed Clinton election scam. Sure DR, that's why Comey announced his investigation of Clinton ten days before the election. We have always been at war with Eurasia!
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: I don't like Russia because I don't like commies. It is the same reason I don't like Democrats and many Republicans. But it if you are going to call making a Facebook page an act of war, then you are going to have to acknowledge that many countries are committing acts of war against many other countries all the time. That's a lot of wars. What if a country actively funded a campaign against the leader of another country? Would that be an act of war? To answer your last question, yes. It violates the sovereignty of the country.
PearlHowardman Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Sure DR, that's why Comey announced his investigation of Clinton ten days before the election. We have always been at war with Eurasia! Wrong! Comey had no choice but to reopen his investigation against lying scumbag Hillary Clinton. The toxic Clintons have more skeletons in their closet than shoes.
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Tiberius said: DR has posted that many times. Politicians have more flexibility after elections, that Poli Sci 101 duh! Obama was absolutely horrific on foreign policy. 10 minutes ago, PearlHowardman said: Here is your evidence. When do we bring Treason charges against former President Barack Obama? Where in that statement did he conspire to act against our government and our election? I think Obama was horrible at foreign policy. But this statement did nothing to actively interfere without electoral process, for example. 1
4merper4mer Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: To answer your last question, yes. It violates the sovereignty of the country. So how should Israel have reacted to this supposed act of war perpetrated by the USA? 1
3rdnlng Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Dan Coates and Mike Pompey have testified in Congree that Russia interfered. Members of the current administration. I have no idea. If there is evidence they did it should be investigated. A foreign government interfered with our elections. That is an act of war. Why do some here want to ignore that? It would appear to me that you guys are discussing apples and oranges. First of all anyone who has not been following this for the last 1 1/2 years or more probably has missed out on some important information. Yes, Russia did attempt to cause confusion and interfere in our election. They weren't very effective with their FB ads, etc. They also were given way too much credit, not by a big consensus of the Intelligence Community but by a few selected members of the IC. They most likely infiltrated Hillary Clinton's private server but I'm sure a ton of other people did too. The DNC was not hacked, but information was stolen by an insider or by break in. It's already been determined by those in the know that the download speed of info from the DNC server was way too fast for it to be hacked via the internet. So, the information that was gleaned from the DNC server cannot be attributed to the Russians, although it is possible that they were behind a break in or convinced an insider to give them the information. I suggest that anyone who hasn't been keeping up on this take the time to read through this entire thread. It should clear up a lot of misconceptions. 2
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: So how should Israel have reacted to this supposed act of war perpetrated by the USA? 3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: So how should Israel have reacted to this supposed act of war perpetrated by the USA? Demanded accountability and if they didn't get it expel all Americans from their country and consider declaring war.
4merper4mer Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So you just excuse it away, no problem. And Trump campaign working with the Russians on throwing the election? There is proof, but since it helped Republicans, your partisanship makes you ignore it. I don't really excuse Zuckerberg for lack of controls in allowing pages like that to pop up, but it has to be put into perspective. Zuck was busy trying to cash in on his new features that allowed the kidnap and torture of developmentally disabled kids to be broadcast live. It would be interesting to see the proof that Trump colluded with Russia. Are you saying when Nancy Pelosi says she hasn't seen any that she is lying? 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Demanded accountability and if they didn't get it expel all Americans from their country and consider declaring war. This ignores the fact that Netanyahu is a big meanie so Obama was justified.
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: I don't really excuse Zuckerberg for lack of controls in allowing pages like that to pop up, but it has to be put into perspective. Zuck was busy trying to cash in on his new features that allowed the kidnap and torture of developmentally disabled kids to be broadcast live. It would be interesting to see the proof that Trump colluded with Russia. Are you saying when Nancy Pelosi says she hasn't seen any that she is lying? This ignores the fact that Netanyahu is a big meanie so Obama was justified. The latter ignores that the Israeli people have the right to choose their leaders. Like we did last election. But that right was affected by the Russians. One of the fundamental aspects of democratic societies and governments is that the people choose their leaders by fair elections. If that is violated then the entire underpinning of government is called into question.
Tiberius Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: I don't really excuse Zuckerberg for lack of controls in allowing pages like that to pop up, but it has to be put into perspective. Zuck was busy trying to cash in on his new features that allowed the kidnap and torture of developmentally disabled kids to be broadcast live. It would be interesting to see the proof that Trump colluded with Russia. Are you saying when Nancy Pelosi says she hasn't seen any that she is lying? This ignores the fact that Netanyahu is a big meanie so Obama was justified. Nancy Pelosi?? What? The Trump Tower meeting to get stolen emails is proof of collusion, then they lied about it and lied some more. They they obstructed justice. Turn off Trump TV for awhile
DC Tom Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 47 minutes ago, ALF said: If Putin wants to throw the West into chaos , he is succeeding . jmo An important, oft-missed point. Putin's indirect interference in our current government is far more effective than his interference in the election. 1
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 Just now, DC Tom said: An important, oft-missed point. Putin's indirect interference in our current government is far more effective than his interference in the election. Good point
Bray Wyatt Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 33 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: The latter ignores that the Israeli people have the right to choose their leaders. Like we did last election. But that right was affected by the Russians. One of the fundamental aspects of democratic societies and governments is that the people choose their leaders by fair elections. If that is violated then the entire underpinning of government is called into question. I dont think any one is really disputing the gist of this statement, but the bolded part is what I think is causing an issue. I think they tried to impact the election (why wouldnt they when we do it to other countries we have an interest in), but I do not think they succeeding in changing any outcome, and the intelligence people also seems to agree on this point. If the results of the election were not changed, what impact did the Russians really have on it then?
DC Tom Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 39 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: The latter ignores that the Israeli people have the right to choose their leaders. Like we did last election. But that right was affected by the Russians. ...by insipid Facebook posts? If we can't have fair elections because people are too stupid to not be influenced by obvious social media bull ****, then American democracy has much bigger problems. 2
oldmanfan Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Bray Wyatt said: I dont think any one is really disputing the gist of this statement, but the bolded part is what I think is causing an issue. I think they tried to impact the election (why wouldnt they when we do it to other countries we have an interest in), but I do not think they succeeding in changing any outcome, and the intelligence people also seems to agree on this point. If the results of the election were not changed, what impact did the Russians really have on it then? My wording was confusing. The act of interfering, regardless of effect, violates our democracy. To me that is an act of war. Just now, DC Tom said: ...by insipid Facebook posts? If we can't have fair elections because people are too stupid to not be influenced by obvious social media bull ****, then American democracy has much bigger problems. I agree in the sense that we have a lot of people who refuse to read or be educated outside of their narrow perspective, whether that be left or right. And that is also dangerous for our republic.
Bray Wyatt Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 Just now, oldmanfan said: My wording was confusing. The act of interfering, regardless of effect, violates our democracy. To me that is an act of war. This seems too idealistic and not practical though, if everyone had this thought we would have a lot more war in the world. I think sanctions were an appropriate response to an action that ultimately did nothing 1
3rdnlng Posted July 13, 2018 Posted July 13, 2018 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: My wording was confusing. The act of interfering, regardless of effect, violates our democracy. To me that is an act of war. So, should we take this act of war seriously and target Russia's cities?
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