Deranged Rhino Posted July 9, 2018 Author Posted July 9, 2018 (I HATE that posts get merged, and new posts aren't given their due.) 11 minutes ago, joesixpack said: How did they have the code to begin with? 2 hours ago, Thirdborn said: what the hell did I just watch? LOL The slow death of the DNC as a serious political party.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 9, 2018 Author Posted July 9, 2018 54 minutes ago, joesixpack said: How did they have the code to begin with? One more...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: One more... And how did Fusion GPS have it?
Deranged Rhino Posted July 9, 2018 Author Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: And how did Fusion GPS have it? (worth the read) https://libertyunyielding.com/2018/07/09/from-fbi-memos-reporters-gave-fbi-security-code-for-manafort-storage-facility/ 8 minutes ago, joesixpack said: And how did Fusion GPS have it? (Also remember Fusion GPS was one of the contractors with unfettered NSA 702 access while inside the FBI-CID/DOJ-NSD... so they literally could have gotten the codes through illegally accessing NSA surveillance) 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: (worth the read) https://libertyunyielding.com/2018/07/09/from-fbi-memos-reporters-gave-fbi-security-code-for-manafort-storage-facility/ let's keep on pretending the press should be protected and aren't part of this coup. Edited July 9, 2018 by joesixpack
Deranged Rhino Posted July 9, 2018 Author Posted July 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, joesixpack said: let's keep on pretending the press should be protected and aren't part of this coup. Some most definitely were - and will be prosecuted (see: Wolfe indictment, Ross firing as a starting point). It's just not the entire media, or even the entire NYT/WaPo/CNN/MSNBC et al. Just can't paint it all with a broad brush imo. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Some most definitely were - and will be prosecuted (see: Wolfe indictment, Ross firing as a starting point). It's just not the entire media, or even the entire NYT/WaPo/CNN/MSNBC et al. Just can't paint it all with a broad brush imo. Here's the biggest problem I have: Even IF it's just a few "bad" apples, there doesn't seem to be many "good" apples within the media reporting on their "bad" peers. It's all from the outside. So let's say, for the sake of argument, that you're correct and it's just a few bad actors. If the rest of the media doesn't self-report, doesn't it make them complicit?
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Here's the biggest problem I have: Even IF it's just a few "bad" apples, there doesn't seem to be many "good" apples within the media reporting on their "bad" peers. It's all from the outside. So let's say, for the sake of argument, that you're correct and it's just a few bad actors. If the rest of the media doesn't self-report, doesn't it make them complicit? No, it makes them free Americans who should not be compelled by the government. Their justice should be metered out by the market place. We convict criminals of crimes, we don't invent crimes to manufacture criminals. As Greg said, prosecute those who have engaged in actual criminal activity; beyond that, the moral philosophy of human freedom isn't always pretty, but it's the very best thing we have. Edited July 9, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker 1
row_33 Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: No, it makes them free Americans who should not be compelled by the government. Their justice should be metered out by the market place. We convict criminals of crimes, we don't invent crimes to manufacture criminals. As Greg said, prosecute those who have engaged in actual criminal activity; beyond that, the moral philosophy of human freedom isn't always pretty, but it's the very best thing we have. correct however....
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Their justice should be metered out by the market place. Good luck with that one.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 9, 2018 Author Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: Here's the biggest problem I have: Even IF it's just a few "bad" apples, there doesn't seem to be many "good" apples within the media reporting on their "bad" peers. It's all from the outside. So let's say, for the sake of argument, that you're correct and it's just a few bad actors. If the rest of the media doesn't self-report, doesn't it make them complicit? Think of it like the FBI and DOJ and all we've learned. There are close to two dozen bad actors in high positions inside the DOJ and FBI leadership that perpetrated this palace coup. The overwhelming majority of agents, officers, and employees of both departments played no role, or tried to expose it only to be silenced. Key positioning of personnel can choke off any attempts by honest brokers inside the system to report it or fix the problem. Is the solution to hold everyone accountable? Or is it to fire/indict/prosecute those who prevented the good people from doing the job the correct way? Clean out the riff-raff. They've exposed themselves, making them easier than ever before to spot, then trust (but verify) the institutions to clean up after themselves. We can't just burn down entire institutions because of the rot at the top. Not unless we're willing to reboot the entire foundations of our nation (imo).
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: Good luck with that one. Then you live with them, Joe; and you argue against them. Just because we don't like something doesn't mean we can throw the perpetrators in jail. Banana republics and dictators behave that way. That is the way of Castro, and state media. I'll err on the side of freedom.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: We can't just burn down entire institutions because of the rot at the top. Not unless we're willing to reboot the entire foundations of our nation (imo). We could. And arguably, we should. But we won't. Why? Don't have the political will to do so. The institutions CREATED the bad actors within them. Just now, TakeYouToTasker said: Then you live with them, Joe; and you argue against them. Again, good luck with that one. It's tilting at windmills.
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, joesixpack said: We could. And arguably, we should. But we won't. Why? Don't have the political will to do so. The institutions CREATED the bad actors within them. What would you replace freedom with, Joe? Convince us that we would all be better served under your totalitarian dictatorship, under which we are required to conform to your preferences. And why should any American stand for a system which invents crimes to imprison political prisoners? Edited July 9, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker
row_33 Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Then you live with them, Joe; and you argue against them. Just because we don't like something doesn't mean we can throw the perpetrators in jail. Banana republics and dictators behave that way. That is the way of Castro, and state media. I'll err on the side of freedom. depends who retains me, but then again I'm always coming in on the wings of angels to deliver justice
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, TakeYouToTasker said: What would you replace freedom with, Joe? Convince us that we would all be better served under your totalitarian dictatorship, under which we are required to conform to your preferences. I'm not talking about replacing freedom. I'm talking about protecting it from corrupt institutions like the FBI/CIA/DOJ/NSA complex, and their media lapdogs. You know, the people behind attempting to overthrow an elected president. My argument is that the criminals within those organizations are PRODUCTS of those organizations, and even if you manage to get rid of the bad people within, more will just arise. The institutions are the root problem.
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: I'm not talking about replacing freedom. I'm talking about protecting it from corrupt institutions like the FBI/CIA/DOJ/NSA complex, and their media lapdogs. You know, the people behind attempting to overthrow an elected president. My argument is that the criminals within those organizations are PRODUCTS of those organizations, and even if you manage to get rid of the bad people within, more will just arise. The institutions are the root problem. The institutions which are within government can be abolished, reformed, consolidated and re-chartered, or replaced. The institutions in the private sphere are off limits, and are Constitutionally protected. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted July 9, 2018 Author Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, joesixpack said: I'm not talking about replacing freedom. I'm talking about protecting it from corrupt institutions like the FBI/CIA/DOJ/NSA complex, and their media lapdogs. You know, the people behind attempting to overthrow an elected president. My argument is that the criminals within those organizations are PRODUCTS of those organizations, and even if you manage to get rid of the bad people within, more will just arise. The institutions are the root problem. A free and honest press is key to keeping citizens informed and our form of government functioning. You're right that for years that press has been co-opted by nefarious forces to spin propaganda and state sponsored lies rather than the truth. This is born not just from the ownership of these media conglomerates and their agendas, but also the systemic attack of our fundamental values which are taught in school from K-grad school in many Universities, cities, and states where most of these MSM journalists matriculate. We are witnessing a mass migration of customers from the MSM dominated market to independent journalists and social media platforms (for better or worse) because the people are hungry for truth and are seeing through the agenda of most MSM outlets. Prosecute those who committed crimes (and there are many who did in these institutions), expose it to the public (already happening) and let the free market place of ideas reset what we expect from the "mainstream media". Either they shape up, or people will keep tuning them out until they're obsolete. But we also have to address the education system - which for 60+ years has been infiltrated by subversive ideologies designed to cause exactly these sorts of cultural and institutional problems. My point, I guess, is that there's not just one answer to this problem. It's going to take a lot of work and must be dealt with from various angles. Trying to do it all with just law enforcement and charging journalists would have a dramatic chilling effect on the freedom of press as a whole which would ultimately weaken our entire form of government even more so than it already is. imo 1
Foxx Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: ... We convict criminals of crimes, we don't invent crimes to manufacture criminals. ... as a stand alone comment, i have an issue with this. crimes are retroactively invented all the time. also, entrapment might have something to say about manufacturing criminals.
DC Tom Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Foxx said: as a stand alone comment, i have an issue with this. crimes are retroactively invented all the time. also, entrapment might have something to say about manufacturing criminals. It is unconstitutional to retroactively apply new laws. Crimes are not retroactively invented in this country. And entrapment is illegal...which is why it's called "entrapment." There is, of course, often a very fine line between "entrapment" and "sting."
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