TPS Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Lost in the current brouhaha surrounding the Bills is the fact that Whaley AND Jim Monos are directing the HC search. While the media, especially our local guys, are having a field day generating click bait headlines about the so-called "dysfunction" of the Bills, the two most important people running football operations are directing the HC search. Any HC candidate worth his salt will be able to see through the current distractions and realize these guys represent one of the best personnel tandems in the business--the team of Whaley AND Monos (WAM) are an attractive selling point. While there has been significant debate here about Whaley's role in various drafts, there can be NO DEBATE about when the WAM team (Fisher should be included as well) started drafting, the 2014 draft. Whaley hired Monos and Fisher in June 2013. It has been three years since that draft, and many believe 3 years is when you can adequately judge a draft's worth. Here's a look. 1. Watkins. While you can debate the injuries and how much it cost to trade for him, there is no doubt Sammy is an elite WR (see Matter2003's post). 2. Kouandjio. While too many people labeled this kid (20 when he was drafted) a bust early on, it's clear now that he can be a legitimate starting LT in this league. 3. PBrown. Starting LB. Certainly people can debate about how good he is, but he's been a starter since his rookie year. 4. Cockrell. Starting CB for Pittsburgh. Unfortunately (for Bills) Cockrell was injured most of the 2015 preseason (Rex's first), and was beaten out by Butler. 5. Richardson. While CR fit the OL type that Marrone wanted, he did not fit Roman's scheme. Currently on Bears PS. 7.A. R.Johnson. Drafted for STs, currently with the Jets. 7.B. Henderson. First year starter at RT. If not for health issues (and weed for pain management), he'd be the starting RT. That is 5 starters (or starter-caliber players) from their first draft as a personnel team. They drafted 2 first-year starters with their R2 and 3 picks in 2015, and their only "miss" (currently not on an NFL team) in their first 2 drafts has been Tony Steward based on injuries. Certainly it's too early to judge the 2016 draft, but they should have at least 3 starters from this group as well. If one wants to find a criticism, I'd say it's they take a lot of chances on players with injury and character issues; however, their record is very solid. To reiterate the point: Whaley's personnel team is damn good. I believe they will dispel the any beliefs about current dysfunction in the interview process with prospective HC candidates and hire who they Billieve is the best person to take the team forward. The storm will pass soon enough, despite the attempt by the guys at the News to sell more ads...
kota Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 When it comes to Cockrell pretty sure prior to the Steeler game Rex said he tried to sneak him through to the PS and thought it was a mistake. No idea why Whaley listened to him.
Not at the table Karlos Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Lost in the current brouhaha surrounding the Bills is the fact that Whaley AND Jim Monos are directing the HC search. While the media, especially our local guys, are having a field day generating click bait headlines about the so-called "dysfunction" of the Bills, the two most important people running football operations are directing the HC search. Any HC candidate worth his salt will be able to see through the current distractions and realize these guys represent one of the best personnel tandems in the business--the team of Whaley AND Monos (WAM) are an attractive selling point. While there has been significant debate here about Whaley's role in various drafts, there can be NO DEBATE about when the WAM team (Fisher should be included as well) started drafting, the 2014 draft. Whaley hired Monos and Fisher in June 2013. It has been three years since that draft, and many believe 3 years is when you can adequately judge a draft's worth. Here's a look. 1. Watkins. While you can debate the injuries and how much it cost to trade for him, there is no doubt Sammy is an elite WR (see Matter2003's post). 2. Kouandjio. While too many people labeled this kid (20 when he was drafted) a bust early on, it's clear now that he can be a legitimate starting LT in this league. 3. PBrown. Starting LB. Certainly people can debate about how good he is, but he's been a starter since his rookie year. 4. Cockrell. Starting CB for Pittsburgh. Unfortunately (for Bills) Cockrell was injured most of the 2015 preseason (Rex's first), and was beaten out by Butler. 5. Richardson. While CR fit the OL type that Marrone wanted, he did not fit Roman's scheme. Currently on Bears PS. 7.A. R.Johnson. Drafted for STs, currently with the Jets. 7.B. Henderson. First year starter at RT. If not for health issues (and weed for pain management), he'd be the starting RT. That is 5 starters (or starter-caliber players) from their first draft as a personnel team. They drafted 2 first-year starters with their R2 and 3 picks in 2015, and their only "miss" (currently not on an NFL team) in their first 2 drafts has been Tony Steward based on injuries. Certainly it's too early to judge the 2016 draft, but they should have at least 3 starters from this group as well. If one wants to find a criticism, I'd say it's they take a lot of chances on players with injury and character issues; however, their record is very solid. To reiterate the point: Whaley's personnel team is damn good. I believe they will dispel the any beliefs about current dysfunction in the interview process with prospective HC candidates and hire who they Billieve is the best person to take the team forward. The storm will pass soon enough, despite the attempt by the guys at the News to sell more ads... great post
hondo in seattle Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Lost in the current brouhaha surrounding the Bills is the fact that Whaley AND Jim Monos are directing the HC search. While the media, especially our local guys, are having a field day generating click bait headlines about the so-called "dysfunction" of the Bills, the two most important people running football operations are directing the HC search. Any HC candidate worth his salt will be able to see through the current distractions and realize these guys represent one of the best personnel tandems in the business--the team of Whaley AND Monos (WAM) are an attractive selling point. While there has been significant debate here about Whaley's role in various drafts, there can be NO DEBATE about when the WAM team (Fisher should be included as well) started drafting, the 2014 draft. Whaley hired Monos and Fisher in June 2013. It has been three years since that draft, and many believe 3 years is when you can adequately judge a draft's worth. Here's a look. 1. Watkins. While you can debate the injuries and how much it cost to trade for him, there is no doubt Sammy is an elite WR (see Matter2003's post). 2. Kouandjio. While too many people labeled this kid (20 when he was drafted) a bust early on, it's clear now that he can be a legitimate starting LT in this league. 3. PBrown. Starting LB. Certainly people can debate about how good he is, but he's been a starter since his rookie year. 4. Cockrell. Starting CB for Pittsburgh. Unfortunately (for Bills) Cockrell was injured most of the 2015 preseason (Rex's first), and was beaten out by Butler. 5. Richardson. While CR fit the OL type that Marrone wanted, he did not fit Roman's scheme. Currently on Bears PS. 7.A. R.Johnson. Drafted for STs, currently with the Jets. 7.B. Henderson. First year starter at RT. If not for health issues (and weed for pain management), he'd be the starting RT. That is 5 starters (or starter-caliber players) from their first draft as a personnel team. They drafted 2 first-year starters with their R2 and 3 picks in 2015, and their only "miss" (currently not on an NFL team) in their first 2 drafts has been Tony Steward based on injuries. Certainly it's too early to judge the 2016 draft, but they should have at least 3 starters from this group as well. If one wants to find a criticism, I'd say it's they take a lot of chances on players with injury and character issues; however, their record is very solid. To reiterate the point: Whaley's personnel team is damn good. I believe they will dispel the any beliefs about current dysfunction in the interview process with prospective HC candidates and hire who they Billieve is the best person to take the team forward. The storm will pass soon enough, despite the attempt by the guys at the News to sell more ads... I'm sure you're partially right. I think the Whaley/Monos combo is more attractive to football insiders than to the Buffalo News. I don't know if I'd call Whaley's personnel team "damn good." I think they've been good in free agency. I think they've been so-so in the draft. I'm guessing that people in the NFL look at the Bills and see an average-ish roster. And that makes Whaley and his team credible personnel guys, not "damn good" ones. But I don't believe they have a bad reputation among coaches and other NFL insiders, despite the wild headlines in the media. Edited January 4, 2017 by hondo in seattle
bananathumb Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Last draft alone makes them a horrible pair of drafters. Lawson, Ragland, etc. Horrible, I say. Cardale Jones....LOL. C'mon. This is the big leagues. boys.
Peter Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) This may surprise some people, but I think Whaley and Monos have done a pretty good job in the draft all things considered. They are not perfect in evaluating talent, but no one is. I would not have traded as much as we did to get Sammy, but he is a good player (when healthy) and I cannot wait to see him play a full year for the Bills while not battling injuries (if that is possible). The best pick in my I opinion (value/talent) was Seantrel in the seventh round. It is difficult to get a first year starter in the seventh round but the Bills had the you know what to take the chance on him. I hope Seantrel gets healthy and find something other than weed to get him through as long as the NFL continues to ban it. As for QBs - we and any Buffalo Bills HC would look a lot better with an elite QB. The problem is that there are not many of those and college football does not do a good job of developing them. In the end, some teams become desperate and overdraft a guy like EJ. At least we did not give up the farm for RGIII. P.S. The last draft does not look as good as I initially thought but the jury is still out. It could end up being a great draft. For 2016 by itself, it did not do us any good. Edited January 4, 2017 by Peter
#34fan Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Two guys with shaky credibility at the moment.... Monos' scouting staff is the sh!tty gift that keeps on f#*king giving... It literally won't stop... Whale-LIE can't remember what decisions he was a part of, or what conversations he was "privy to" Wasn't Monos part of Modrak's crew? -Wtf is he even still doing here? Terry, Save yourself the trouble, and fire Whaley AND Monos now.... Monos' scouting is atrocious, and Whale-LIE is NOT the type of GM this team needs!
TPS Posted January 4, 2017 Author Posted January 4, 2017 Last draft alone makes them a horrible pair of drafters. Lawson, Ragland, etc. Horrible, I say. Cardale Jones....LOL. C'mon. This is the big leagues. boys. whats lol is you judging the 2016 draft after one season. Of course, fans always want instant gratification.
JohnC Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Lost in the current brouhaha surrounding the Bills is the fact that Whaley AND Jim Monos are directing the HC search. While the media, especially our local guys, are having a field day generating click bait headlines about the so-called "dysfunction" of the Bills, the two most important people running football operations are directing the HC search. Any HC candidate worth his salt will be able to see through the current distractions and realize these guys represent one of the best personnel tandems in the business--the team of Whaley AND Monos (WAM) are an attractive selling point. While there has been significant debate here about Whaley's role in various drafts, there can be NO DEBATE about when the WAM team (Fisher should be included as well) started drafting, the 2014 draft. Whaley hired Monos and Fisher in June 2013. It has been three years since that draft, and many believe 3 years is when you can adequately judge a draft's worth. Here's a look. 1. Watkins. While you can debate the injuries and how much it cost to trade for him, there is no doubt Sammy is an elite WR (see Matter2003's post). 2. Kouandjio. While too many people labeled this kid (20 when he was drafted) a bust early on, it's clear now that he can be a legitimate starting LT in this league. 3. PBrown. Starting LB. Certainly people can debate about how good he is, but he's been a starter since his rookie year. 4. Cockrell. Starting CB for Pittsburgh. Unfortunately (for Bills) Cockrell was injured most of the 2015 preseason (Rex's first), and was beaten out by Butler. 5. Richardson. While CR fit the OL type that Marrone wanted, he did not fit Roman's scheme. Currently on Bears PS. 7.A. R.Johnson. Drafted for STs, currently with the Jets. 7.B. Henderson. First year starter at RT. If not for health issues (and weed for pain management), he'd be the starting RT. That is 5 starters (or starter-caliber players) from their first draft as a personnel team. They drafted 2 first-year starters with their R2 and 3 picks in 2015, and their only "miss" (currently not on an NFL team) in their first 2 drafts has been Tony Steward based on injuries. Certainly it's too early to judge the 2016 draft, but they should have at least 3 starters from this group as well. If one wants to find a criticism, I'd say it's they take a lot of chances on players with injury and character issues; however, their record is very solid. To reiterate the point: Whaley's personnel team is damn good. I believe they will dispel the any beliefs about current dysfunction in the interview process with prospective HC candidates and hire who they Billieve is the best person to take the team forward. The storm will pass soon enough, despite the attempt by the guys at the News to sell more ads... In general I think that Whaley has done a good job. I'm glad to be wrong on my bust assessment on Kujo. With a little time passing by allowing him to mature physically he has showed to play ably at LT. If the next coach switches Cody Glenn to RT or Kujo shows he can play there then the Kujo pick has proved to be a successful pick. What ultimately defines a GM is the ability to find a qb. That overrides everything else. So far Whaley has not adequately addressed the most important issue that determines success and failure in this league.
Peter Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 whats lol is you judging the 2016 draft after one season. Of course, fans always want instant gratification. Fans and ownership apparently. I agree. The jury is still out on 2016.
Reed83HOF Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 No impact players (Sammy is my favorite player on this team, but he doesn't win us games - see point #2) and not one that honestly makes a difference with regards to our record (Sammy is not the OBJ who wins us games - yes I know Eli > TT). If none of them were on our team our record would be virtually unchanged, case in point Sammy is always injured - do any of these other players do much of anything?
Simon Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Thanks for a realistic perspective amidst the unbearable sea of stupidity into which this board has devolved. fwiw, since 2013 Whaley has drafted 28 players for the Buffalo Bills; 25 of those guys are currently on NFL rosters for a hit rate of approximately 90%. Then you can factor in trade/FA acquisitions such as Shady McCoy, Jerry Hughes, The Lorax, Richie Incognito, Charles Clay, Zach Brown and Corey Graham. But yeah, he sucks, the NFL is overrun with other GM's who are drafting so much better and we should run him out of town because he gives more of a sheet about football than he does about press conferences and clueless, crybaby columnists.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 How does Whaley rate against other GMs? Simple question no one is answering. Using the metrics we are hanging Doug with, are there worse GM's? How many are better?
K D Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 The Bills had the lowest number of players they had drafted themselves playing of any team in the league. Whaley sucks at drafting but has done OK with free agents. Apparently he has never picked a coach though so here we go. This should be interesting Also I believe the lowest number of games played by 1st round picks since 2014 (when he took over)
Simon Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) The Bills had the lowest number of players they had drafted themselves playing of any team in the league. Whaley sucks at drafting Tim Graham's idiocy is among the stupidest standards anybody could have come up with to judge Whaley's work. The Bills have a 50+ man roster and Whaley has only had the opportunity to draft 28 guys. In order to meet the standard many of you keep referring to, then approximately 40 out of Whaley's 28 picks should still be in Buffalo. Edited January 4, 2017 by Simon
TPS Posted January 4, 2017 Author Posted January 4, 2017 Thanks for a realistic perspective amidst the unbearable sea of stupidity into which this board has devolved. fwiw, since 2013 Whaley has drafted 28 players for the Buffalo Bills; 25 of those guys are currently on NFL rosters for a hit rate of approximately 90%. Then you can factor in trade/FA acquisitions such as Shady McCoy, Jerry Hughes, The Lorax, Richie Incognito, Charles Clay, Zach Brown and Corey Graham. But yeah, he sucks, the NFL is overrun with other GM's who are drafting so much better and we should run him out of town because he gives more of a sheet about football than he does about press conferences and clueless, crybaby columnists. i would argue he should be judged starting with the 2014 draft because it's the first with his personnel team in place. Only one player out of 20 is not on an NFL roster and it's an injury issue.
Saint Doug Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 I think they've been good in free agency. I think they've been so-so in the draft. I'm guessing that people in the NFL look at the Bills and see an average-ish roster. Whether a roster is "average" or not is 50% GM and 50% coach/scheme. If you asked someone if our defensive roster was good in 2014. They'd say it was an elite roster. Ask them now and they'll say "average" even though the roster is almost the same. As for the offense, judgement lies entirely on the QB.
TPS Posted January 4, 2017 Author Posted January 4, 2017 How does Whaley rate against other GMs? Simple question no one is answering. Using the metrics we are hanging Doug with, are there worse GM's? How many are better?id make it simple, how many had a better 2014 draft? Still, it will be subjective because what's the metric? For example, we are just now seeing CK's potential. How good will he be? How do you account for injuries?
somnus00 Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 I truly feel that some "fans" just love when the Bills are unsuccessful. Like they revel in Bills complaints. Then they can just pull out their annual, "burn it all down," comments. This simplistic view allows one to let out their anger without actually being analytical. Our team is more talented than at any other time this century. The GM is getting the types of players that his coach is asking for. If our defensive coach could have provided some semblance of a defense, we would've been in the playoffs the last 2 years. If the last offensive coach could have provided some semblance of an offense, we would have made the playoffs the 2 previous years. But some people will just ignore all of this because, "I'm mad so fire everyone!" You want a dumpster fire? Look at the fans.
Saint Doug Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) The Bills had the lowest number of players they had drafted themselves playing of any team in the league. Whaley sucks at drafting but has done OK with free agents. Apparently he has never picked a coach though so here we go. This should be interesting Also I believe the lowest number of games played by 1st round picks since 2014 (when he took over) This is multifactorial. Many things go into this, such as injuries, changing of coaching/schemes (changing to a 3-4), trades (Kiko for Shady, Hughes), and Whaley's superior ability to find talent elsewhere (Lorax, Brown, etc). No one gets a prize for having the highest number of draftees starting. Edited January 4, 2017 by Saint Doug
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