Don't understand all the fuss about Whaley and Pegs

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

it's how it was handled. and it's about all of the confusion about roles and who's making what decisions. everyone is shirking responsibility. i didn't hire him i didnt fire him i didn't make the call to sit Tyrod, i wasn't aware we were firing the HC. What?

 

I guess-- but it still doesn't bother me. The people that had the power to make the decisions made the right and very obvious decisions. I think people expect some very linear decision-making model, and that is not always the case in many organizations and businesses.

[tedstrong]

I totally agree that this is all way overblown. I am completely at ease with how the firing went down. I also agree that this is backlash for Pegula's loyalty to the community.

 

Look, 17 years is nothing...it took the CUBS 108 years to get it right, and they remained a popular and viable team the entire time!

[Dan]

I finally had time to watch the Whaley press conference. I've also read half the threads here about it. ..and all I have to say is.. Holy crap!!

 

Talk about much ado about nothing! First of all, Whaley did a great job! He clearly had several talking points the PR people wanted him to stick to... And he did. I'm focused on winning. I was not privy to that conversation. The ownership issued a statement. Etc. etc. he stayed on point and gave the press zero additional bait. So what do they all do... Begin the spin and speculation because that's all they have.

 

Could/should he have been more candid and discussed the inner workings and conversations? Maybe. Maybe that would have altered all this specualtion about ownerships involvement, Russ' involvement, the FO structure, etc. But, clearly, the owners and Whaley don't want that information out there and that's that. So he stone walled the press. But, of course, they still have papers to sell (or clicks to get), so they're gonna write something!

 

But, a few points.... Whaley seemed more confident than I've ever seen him. For the first time it seems he's actually making the decisions and it's not a committee decision. We have a "football guy" running the show. Maybe he sucks. I suppose we'll find out. But, it's all on him for the first time ever, it seems.

 

Also... What's with all the Tyrod specualtion? He clearly said... If the Bills were still in the hunt, Tyrod would have started. Period. The decision to sit him and look at EJ, was clearly a business decision. They had one game left to decide if EJ had progressed enough to stay on the roster as a backup. That's it, IMO. Why leaveTyrod in a meaningless game, risk injury and still not have an idea how far EJ had prgogressed?

 

Yeah... People are definitely projecting past dysfunction on the current situation. I get it. It's easy. It's fun. It drives readership. But, let's see how Whaley does. This offseason is the make or break time for him.

[LI_Bills]

Best post since Monday.

[Fixxxer]

This is the sane thread?

 

So, everything is OK at OBD then? It's just a nasty local media-driven vendetta? All of the dysfunction that is playing out right in front of us isn't really dysfunction - it's just the media telling us it's dysfunction. OBD didn't do this, Sully did. wow.

 

We hired a big personality HC that draws attention no matter where he goes...and we fired him in 2 years with an obviously divided FO 1 game before the season ends, benching our starting QB and installing an interim. We play an abysmal game including a bizarre special teams disaster. The locals get the same old Bills feeling watching the coaching carousel fire up yet again. No sign that there is a tight process for managing the transition into another regime, just the opposite. Then we get mad when anyone in the media dares to wonder (skeptically) who is running this thing? So they appropriately go to the General freaking Manager and he lies and plays politics while looking ridiculous and treating the media like it's not their place to ask. That level of sh-t show, as it should, draws in the national media.

 

The FO did that all by themselves. It's not just picking on poor little Buffalo.

 

People here are faulting the local media (that has been covering failure after failure for the entire stretch of our drought) for calling what's walking and quacking like a duck in front of the entire country....a duck.

 

I don't get mad I just don't care what the media says, because it's entertainment. They don't know more than we do and they need overreaction to get clicks.

[bbb]

I finally had time to watch the Whaley press conference. I've also read half the threads here about it. ..and all I have to say is.. Holy crap!!

 

Talk about much ado about nothing! First of all, Whaley did a great job! He clearly had several talking points the PR people wanted him to stick to... And he did. I'm focused on winning. I was not privy to that conversation. The ownership issued a statement. Etc. etc. he stayed on point and gave the press zero additional bait. So what do they all do... Begin the spin and speculation because that's all they have.

 

Could/should he have been more candid and discussed the inner workings and conversations? Maybe. Maybe that would have altered all this specualtion about ownerships involvement, Russ' involvement, the FO structure, etc. But, clearly, the owners and Whaley don't want that information out there and that's that. So he stone walled the press. But, of course, they still have papers to sell (or clicks to get), so they're gonna write something!

 

But, a few points.... Whaley seemed more confident than I've ever seen him. For the first time it seems he's actually making the decisions and it's not a committee decision. We have a "football guy" running the show. Maybe he sucks. I suppose we'll find out. But, it's all on him for the first time ever, it seems.

 

Also... What's with all the Tyrod specualtion? He clearly said... If the Bills were still in the hunt, Tyrod would have started. Period. The decision to sit him and look at EJ, was clearly a business decision. They had one game left to decide if EJ had progressed enough to stay on the roster as a backup. That's it, IMO. Why leaveTyrod in a meaningless game, risk injury and still not have an idea how far EJ had prgogressed?

 

Yeah... People are definitely projecting past dysfunction on the current situation. I get it. It's easy. It's fun. It drives readership. But, let's see how Whaley does. This offseason is the make or break time for him.

 

This is exactly what I said after reading all about it on Monday and then finally listening it on Monday night late.

 

[ndirish1978]

Press conference was the most smug Whaley i've seen in a while, media hates him because he doesn't care about giving them stories. If you don't believe me, just look at Graham and Rodaks twitter over the past few days

[vorpma]

Rex reported directly to the owner. Whaley was not in full command of the organization. Is this really any different than in many places in some for or another? Do people really think the GM just sits back and signs and drafts whatever players he feels like without the input of the HC? How many owners just sit back and let the GM pick the HC without final say?

Organizations almost never have a purely vertical structure any more. They are blends of horizontal and vertical reporting often with dyads forming a team for decision making. There are few if any decisions that can and should be made by one person.

The Bills are far from dysfunctional when in comes to organizational structure. The media is just using an antiquated lens to look at the organization. You can argue/debate that the people in the organization may not be qualified to make these decisions but there is nothing wrong with have a GM/HC dyad structure of management. There really are very few decisions from player personnel, the draft, free agency, or final roster make-up that can't be made by consensus.

All this media huff will blow over. This is more about them living in the past than it is about the Bills.

Take Polian for instance. He had all the power in Indianapolis and year after year he let the talent get worse propped up only by Peyton Manning. He should be the last guy telling people how to run a modern organization.

Are you legally insane?

[tedstrong]

I finally had time to watch the Whaley press conference. I've also read half the threads here about it. ..and all I have to say is.. Holy crap!!

 

Talk about much ado about nothing! First of all, Whaley did a great job! He clearly had several talking points the PR people wanted him to stick to... And he did. I'm focused on winning. I was not privy to that conversation. The ownership issued a statement. Etc. etc. he stayed on point and gave the press zero additional bait. So what do they all do... Begin the spin and speculation because that's all they have.

 

Could/should he have been more candid and discussed the inner workings and conversations? Maybe. Maybe that would have altered all this specualtion about ownerships involvement, Russ' involvement, the FO structure, etc. But, clearly, the owners and Whaley don't want that information out there and that's that. So he stone walled the press. But, of course, they still have papers to sell (or clicks to get), so they're gonna write something!

 

But, a few points.... Whaley seemed more confident than I've ever seen him. For the first time it seems he's actually making the decisions and it's not a committee decision. We have a "football guy" running the show. Maybe he sucks. I suppose we'll find out. But, it's all on him for the first time ever, it seems.

 

Also... What's with all the Tyrod specualtion? He clearly said... If the Bills were still in the hunt, Tyrod would have started. Period. The decision to sit him and look at EJ, was clearly a business decision. They had one game left to decide if EJ had progressed enough to stay on the roster as a backup. That's it, IMO. Why leaveTyrod in a meaningless game, risk injury and still not have an idea how far EJ had prgogressed?

 

Yeah... People are definitely projecting past dysfunction on the current situation. I get it. It's easy. It's fun. It drives readership. But, let's see how Whaley does. This offseason is the make or break time for him.

This is a great lucid post...thank you!

[Augie]

This is exactly what I said after reading all about it on Monday and then finally listening it on Monday night late.

 

But.... it's Buffalo! We're all just a bunch of idiots roasting marshmallows sitting around the dumpster fire. THAT has already been decided.

[NewEra]

 

Please explain how the front office is in any way cohesive and non-dysfunctional.

 

Thanks in advance

Still waiting. Exactly what I had expected.

[Alphadawg7]

I finally had time to watch the Whaley press conference. I've also read half the threads here about it. ..and all I have to say is.. Holy crap!!

 

Talk about much ado about nothing! First of all, Whaley did a great job! He clearly had several talking points the PR people wanted him to stick to... And he did. I'm focused on winning. I was not privy to that conversation. The ownership issued a statement. Etc. etc. he stayed on point and gave the press zero additional bait. So what do they all do... Begin the spin and speculation because that's all they have.

 

Could/should he have been more candid and discussed the inner workings and conversations? Maybe. Maybe that would have altered all this specualtion about ownerships involvement, Russ' involvement, the FO structure, etc. But, clearly, the owners and Whaley don't want that information out there and that's that. So he stone walled the press. But, of course, they still have papers to sell (or clicks to get), so they're gonna write something!

 

But, a few points.... Whaley seemed more confident than I've ever seen him. For the first time it seems he's actually making the decisions and it's not a committee decision. We have a "football guy" running the show. Maybe he sucks. I suppose we'll find out. But, it's all on him for the first time ever, it seems.

 

Also... What's with all the Tyrod specualtion? He clearly said... If the Bills were still in the hunt, Tyrod would have started. Period. The decision to sit him and look at EJ, was clearly a business decision. They had one game left to decide if EJ had progressed enough to stay on the roster as a backup. That's it, IMO. Why leaveTyrod in a meaningless game, risk injury and still not have an idea how far EJ had prgogressed?

 

Yeah... People are definitely projecting past dysfunction on the current situation. I get it. It's easy. It's fun. It drives readership. But, let's see how Whaley does. This offseason is the make or break time for him.

 

EXACTLY! I can not believe the non sense going on around here about the Press Conference...I don't even think many even watched it, they just ran with what ever BS theory or story they had in their head based on their biased hatred of him. Thats the only explanation because literally NOTHING that is being whined about actually occurred in the Press Conference. I thought Whaley did a great job actually.

[bbb]

 

EXACTLY! I can not believe the non sense going on around here about the Press Conference...I don't even think many even watched it, they just ran with what ever BS theory or story they had in their head based on their biased hatred of him. Thats the only explanation because literally NOTHING that is being whined about actually occurred in the Press Conference. I thought Whaley did a great job actually.

 

Same here. I really don't think the people complaining took the time to watch or listen to it.

[Alphadawg7]

This is the sane thread?

 

So, everything is OK at OBD then? It's just a nasty local media-driven vendetta? All of the dysfunction that is playing out right in front of us isn't really dysfunction - it's just the media telling us it's dysfunction. OBD didn't do this, Sully did. wow.

 

We hired a big personality HC that draws attention no matter where he goes...and we fired him in 2 years with an obviously divided FO 1 game before the season ends, benching our starting QB and installing an interim. We play an abysmal game including a bizarre special teams disaster. The locals get the same old Bills feeling watching the coaching carousel fire up yet again. No sign that there is a tight process for managing the transition into another regime, just the opposite. Then we get mad when anyone in the media dares to wonder (skeptically) who is running this thing? So they appropriately go to the General freaking Manager and he lies and plays politics while looking ridiculous and treating the media like it's not their place to ask. That level of sh-t show, as it should, draws in the national media.

 

The FO did that all by themselves. It's not just picking on poor little Buffalo.

 

People here are faulting the local media (that has been covering failure after failure for the entire stretch of our drought) for calling what's walking and quacking like a duck in front of the entire country....a duck.

 

Come one man...this is a terrible post.

 

1. I would bet money you didn't even watch the press conference because it was fine, Whaley did a good job.

2. You are now citing a mental lapse by MG on a kickoff as dysfunction in the front office and with ownership? LMAO, that is about the most ridiculous connection and stretch of the imagination I have seen around here, and this is TSW, so that is saying a lot.

3. You have no idea if Whaley is lying or not...and guess what, who the hell cares? Why does it matter who knew what and when? It doesnt...youre making it matter to prove this absurd notion of chaos.

 

This is really pretty simple people. Rex met with Pegs and told him if I am going to be fired I would rather it be now...Pegs obliged. Case closed, no mystery, no scandal...geezus back away from the freaking ledge. Pegs clearly wanted Rex, then clearly realized he made a mistake...and when Rex said do it now please he obliged.

 

This is what is even dumber about all this unnecessary hoopla. You have a manager at most of your work places. He mostly does the firing and hiring, thats his job. But he ALSO has a boss, an owner...and they can decide its time for someone to go because despite the managers title, he always out ranks the manager. Pegula's didn't like Rex here and wanted a change, there is nothing ANY, and I mean ANY GM in the NFL can do to save the coach if the Owner wants him gone...period. And its happened I assure you within the ranks of most the teams in the NFL, if not all of them, at some point in that teams history at least once.

 

I mean I just can not believe the utter nonsense being made up about all of this. This has actually been a GREAT thing...Pegs clearly wanted Rex when we signed him and came to realize it was a mistake in his eyes and now rather than be involved again he turned it all over to Whaley to make the best football decision. Somehow all the doom and gloomers are making it into something its not.

[major]

Jerry jones just named himself gm- pegs need to do the same

[filthymcnasty08]

 

Come one man...this is a terrible post.

 

1. I would bet money you didn't even watch the press conference because it was fine, Whaley did a good job.

2. You are now citing a mental lapse by MG on a kickoff as dysfunction in the front office and with ownership? LMAO, that is about the most ridiculous connection and stretch of the imagination I have seen around here, and this is TSW, so that is saying a lot.

3. You have no idea if Whaley is lying or not...and guess what, who the hell cares? Why does it matter who knew what and when? It doesnt...youre making it matter to prove this absurd notion of chaos.

 

This is really pretty simple people. Rex met with Pegs and told him if I am going to be fired I would rather it be now...Pegs obliged. Case closed, no mystery, no scandal...geezus back away from the freaking ledge. Pegs clearly wanted Rex, then clearly realized he made a mistake...and when Rex said do it now please he obliged.

 

This is what is even dumber about all this unnecessary hoopla. You have a manager at most of your work places. He mostly does the firing and hiring, thats his job. But he ALSO has a boss, an owner...and they can decide its time for someone to go because despite the managers title, he always out ranks the manager. Pegula's didn't like Rex here and wanted a change, there is nothing ANY, and I mean ANY GM in the NFL can do to save the coach if the Owner wants him gone...period. And its happened I assure you within the ranks of most the teams in the NFL, if not all of them, at some point in that teams history at least once.

 

I mean I just can not believe the utter nonsense being made up about all of this. This has actually been a GREAT thing...Pegs clearly wanted Rex when we signed him and came to realize it was a mistake in his eyes and now rather than be involved again he turned it all over to Whaley to make the best football decision. Somehow all the doom and gloomers are making it into something its not.

1). Watched it in its entirety: It was cringeworthy

 

2). Nope I cited it as an on-field indication of a team in disarray and my personal low-point of the season ending. Your making a straw man out of an added-on detail and going to town on it. Was not my entire point at all but go ahead and bash it as it's the bulk of your point.

 

3). Ok I don't know if Whaley was lying, but the majority of people find his recount fantastically unbelievable. And it does matter when your front office mishandling of matters is aired out in front of the country. It only re-enforces any negative view of the Bills organization in the national eye to fans and even prospective players/coaches.

 

Nobody denies that Pegs wanted Rex etc. Solid football organizations do not handle their business like this. The Bills always seem to handle their business like this.

 

Thanks for your expanding on the business world, I am in it every day. But please, take the high ground for yourself and preach.

 

The rest of your post is bashing people's reaction. You have your opinion and others do not share it. You're telling them it's dumb, wrong, extreme etc. Some of us think it's all those things and more to blame the media and fellow fans for the gaffes of OBD.

 

I mentioned this in another post, I live in the NYC market....you should see what the media does to professional teams and players when there are firings with odd circumstances and behavior, when front offices implode, GM's look silly....like sharks to blood. WFAN has to fill the air for 24 hours and man do they pounce on things like this. See the last 2 years of Rex with the Jets - circus...the media was relentless for months

 

I commend your painting all of this as a good thing, those are some awesome rose colored lenses. I just don't see a prime coaching candidate looking at his prospective management and becoming more excited based on the last few weeks of OBD activity.

Still waiting. Exactly what I had expected.

No no...there's a lot there buddy. I just don't have the time tonight. Since you're gloating already, I will make time for you tomorrow.

Thought so. I ask a question. You don't answer, but ask another question. You made a statement that they are "obviously dysfunctional". I asked you why are they dysfunctional

 

I'll answer your question because I can. Whaley knew Rex was going to be fired. There's no question about it. He didn't know the impromptu meeting Rex asked for would lead to his firing due to him not agreeing to bench tyrod. The FO decided that tyrod would sit and Rex wouldn't sit him. So he was fired. Is whaley going to say that in his PC? Only an idiot would. There's still a possibilty of tyrod being our qb next year. Only an idiot gym would tell the media that.

 

What else is so "dysfunctional"? That they hired Rex? Or maybe that's just a bad decision? I'll wait

I actually find it comical though that my not responding to you yet somehow makes the bills less of a sh-tshow.

Edited January 5, 2017 by filthymcnasty08

[Wayne Arnold]

 

EXACTLY! I can not believe the non sense going on around here about the Press Conference...I don't even think many even watched it, they just ran with what ever BS theory or story they had in their head based on their biased hatred of him. Thats the only explanation because literally NOTHING that is being whined about actually occurred in the Press Conference. I thought Whaley did a great job actually.

 

The press exaggerated and much of the public ate it up and blew it completely out of proportion.

 

However, we can't claim that Whaley did a "great job". In fact, he did an awful job.

 

Whaley's problem is that he goes into each press conference as if the media is the enemy and he's there to be interrogated and to keep everything close to the vest. He looks like he's ready for a fight and answers like he's a defendant on the stand answering questions from the prosecutor.

 

But that's not so much on him as it is Russ Brandon, Scott Berchtold and the Pegulas. I feel like that hatred/awkwardness with the media has been going on for way too long now. I was hoping that the Pegulas would put a stop to it but they haven't. This obsession with controlling the narrative and making sure no information that might lead to proven accountability of mistakes is not working. In fact, it's blowing up in their faces. They have to change how they conduct PR.

 

You can blame the Buffalo News all you want but they're not going to change. The media is the same everywhere. So you can either keep fighting it and look like dysfunctional incompetents...or you can play the game and just open up and let them in.

 

Why does Whaley have to blatantly lie about never giving Pegula any input about Rex? Everyone knew it was BS to the point of absurdity. Other parts of the PC he acts unnecessarily cagey and answers questions in a passive aggressive manner.

 

Why was Rex fired? - "Ownership issued a statement."

"I wasn't privy to that information."

What was your role in Rex's hiring? - "I will not get into that." (deflects blame)

"Again, I was not privy to that conversation."

"I understand the narrative out there, Anthony and I have talked and we're fine"

"We are fine."

"The ownership put out a statement."

"I will have to disagree with you on that."

"Can I answer?"

"There was going to be a narrative no matter what we had done that day."

"That painted us in any picture you guys wanted to paint us."

"They put out a statement. You have it."

"Well that is the way you think."

"You can write how you want."

You didn't know that Rex might get fired? - "No." (throws owner under the bus)

"I had no reason to talk to them about Rex, we were focused on the season." (what?!)

Did you agree with the decision to fire Rex? - "I haven't even thought about it."

 

This team needs to come to the realization that going to war with the local media is not a war they will win. It's better business to stop being so guarded and mysterious and just be more open and tell it like it is.

[Augie]

The press exaggerated and much of the public ate it up and blew it completely out of proportion.

 

However, we can't claim that Whaley did a "great job". In fact, he did an awful job.

 

Whaley's problem is that he goes into each press conference as if the media is the enemy and he's there to be interrogated and to keep everything close to the vest. He looks like he's ready for a fight and answers like he's a defendant on the stand answering questions from the prosecutor.

 

But that's not so much on him as it is Russ Brandon, Scott Berchtold and the Pegulas. I feel like that hatred/awkwardness with the media has been going on for way too long now. I was hoping that the Pegulas would put a stop to it but they haven't. This obsession with controlling the narrative and making sure no information that might lead to proven accountability of mistakes is not working. In fact, it's blowing up in their faces. They have to change how they conduct PR.

 

You can blame the Buffalo News all you want but they're not going to change. The media is the same everywhere. So you can either keep fighting it and look like dysfunctional incompetents...or you can play the game and just open up and let them in.

 

Why does Whaley have to blatantly lie about never giving Pegula any input about Rex? Everyone knew it was BS to the point of absurdity. Other parts of the PC he acts unnecessarily cagey and answers questions in a passive aggressive manner.

 

Why was Rex fired? - "Ownership issued a statement."

"I wasn't privy to that information."

What was your role in Rex's hiring? - "I will not get into that." (deflects blame)

"Again, I was not privy to that conversation."

"I understand the narrative out there, Anthony and I have talked and we're fine"

"We are fine."

"The ownership put out a statement."

"I will have to disagree with you on that."

"Can I answer?"

"There was going to be a narrative no matter what we had done that day."

"That painted us in any picture you guys wanted to paint us."

"They put out a statement. You have it."

"Well that is the way you think."

"You can write how you want."

You didn't know that Rex might get fired? - "No." (throws owner under the bus)

"I had no reason to talk to them about Rex, we were focused on the season." (what?!)

Did you agree with the decision to fire Rex? - "I haven't even thought about it."

 

This team needs to come to the realization that going to war with the local media is not a war they will win. It's better business to stop being so guarded and mysterious and just be more open and tell it like it is.

Maybe we've been around the Patriots for too long? But it seems to work for them, and they give you zip.

[Fan in Chicago]

 

 

 

This team needs to come to the realization that going to war with the local media is not a war they will win. It's better business to stop being so guarded and mysterious and just be more open and tell it like it is.

 

I seriously doubt the local press can influence the business part of the Buffalo Bills. They may try to create a fuss and furor but the merchandise and ticket sales are dependent upon so much more. I think the (Local) media thinks they have some sort of power but IMHO doesnt have much of it. Perhaps why Pegulas dont care much for them - they are business men and if they thought it was different, I guarantee they would go out of their way to appease them,

 

I will also point to the utter lack of true reporting and scoops generated by these same guys. Save maybe a couple, like JW, they havent done much to earn a good reputation. So they dont have cred, they dont have much business influence, why would the Pegulas care about them ?

[What a Tuel]

Maybe we've been around the Patriots for too long? But it seems to work for them, and they give you zip.

 

Especially after coming off a coach who said stuff and people flipped out over. "You just don't say that stuff, keep your fat mouth shut Rex"

 

Why does Whaley have to blatantly lie about never giving Pegula any input about Rex? Everyone knew it was BS to the point of absurdity. Other parts of the PC he acts unnecessarily cagey and answers questions in a passive aggressive manner.

 

Are you not aware of the treatment and temper tantrums the media threw because Whaley wasn't out there one week prior when they demanded? To the point of calling Ownership "bozos". So why are you surprised that the organization doesn't want to give this crappy media any information.