Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 IThe evidence is there on the roster. The Bills have one of the lowest numbers of drafted players on their active roster. They don't draft well and have not for several years. That (I think) is on Whaley. Now if he didn't draft any of the players for 4 years we have an even bigger problem. You do realize that the primary fallacy of Graham's article is that he's complaining we have only 41 drafted players on the roster - yet Whaley has been GM for 3 years and has had 21 draft picks to deal with in that time (counting what we started with, as dealing a pick is one use of it), 28 if you believe he is 100% responsible for 2013? It doesn't take advanced math skills to consider that since a roster has 53 players, one needs to look at essentially 8 seasons of drafting just to fill a roster. A secondary fallacy of Graham's article is that it doesn't consider the impact of changing coaches on the roster. Example: Marrone wants big lurching behemoth guards. Cyril Richardson. Kromer/Roman want stout pulling guards. byebye! Russ Cockrell (drafted in 2014) is a promising DB, but a bad fit for Rex's secondary, so he's cut and is now starting for the Steelers. Rex can't work with Schwartz personnel, so instead of upgrading positions like WR we have to draft to fill his holes etc.
FireChan Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Whaley has run three drafts as the GM. Which draft picks from '14, '15, and '16 are you ready to declare as failures? The ones not on the team, for starters.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 I just got email from BB.com saying Brandon has been demoted from all football operations (Per Vic C.)...SMH Throw something against wall see if sticks! good that is the best thing I've heard all day.
billykaykay Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 As an aside, I do not consider Frank Reich to be a particularly good candidate as a HC at this moment in time (so I disagree with Polian there). I also think that this comment is based on Polian's views in general and, if it related to Buffalo in particular, I presume that he would prefer that it be with another GM. I also think (based on prior history and what John C recently has tweeted) that Polian would come back, if asked, in a football czar role, and, if he did, Whaley would not last long. At this point, what choice do they have but to go forward with these interviews. Right now -- presuming nothing changes -- I would presume that Whaley continues to be the GM in at least the short term. They have made their bed . . . . If Polian comes on board or they have problems getting a HC candidate that ownership wants because of Whaley in general (or his role in particular), things could change more quickly than the one year deadline that some have mentioned. Again, I readily admit that this is my "conjecture." Peter, forget Polian. He's an old man.
TheFunPolice Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Well, I think I've made my point that I have zero faith in Whaley. Many of you who have answered my posts in support of Whaley make some good points, even if I don't fully agree. It's all opinion, aside from the W/L record and results on the field, which are mediocre at best. Not awful, though. That should be said. Whatever they do, this much is certain: I'll talk myself into liking it between now and next summer, because that is a lot more fun than all this. I wonder if they make NFL coaching candidates fill out an application before the interview begins.
K-9 Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 I agree....Always starts at the top...The Pegula's need to have a little structure to the front office By structure, do you mean a layer between Pegula and Whaley; the "football czar" model?
TheFunPolice Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 By structure, do you mean a layer between Pegula and Whaley; the "football czar" model? I could get on board with that. I almost wonder if the original idea was that Russ was that layer, not necessarily as a "football mind" but in a lot of ways Pegula's eyes and ears.
nucci Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 By structure, do you mean a layer between Pegula and Whaley; the "football czar" model? Nope, Whaley reports to Pegula...Brandon stays away from the football side..Owner - GM...it's how most teams do it
K-9 Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Nope, Whaley reports to Pegula...Brandon stays away from the football side..Owner - GM...it's how most teams do it That structure has been in place for a couple years now, so that structure you said the Pegulas need is already there if I understand your meaning correctly.
bbb Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Good question. I don't know, but I find it intriguing. He was quoted in just about every major newspaper over the past month on Veterans issues and he seems to have a lot of reporters following him on Twitter. I know that doesn't mean anything in football, but it is interesting. A few searches on here and Google shows he was the or among the first to say Rex Ryan was in Florida meeting with the Pegulas and that he'd be hired that night. I don't see anyone else that was saying it first or with more detail that turned out to be right. he was the first to say Hughes would get re-signed. He had it an hour before the rest on here. He said Felton was coming in and would be signed before I see anyone else did. He reported Harvin was getting signed right at the same time as Josina Anderson but before everyone else. He was saying two years ago the Pegulas were going hire Polian as a czar. That turned out to be wrong but then later we found they had offered it to him. He said last year Coughlin was being offered a similar czar role. That also turned out to apparently be wrong but we later found out Coughlin was at least at the facility for a while. The one thing I see is that it appears he went to high school with Kim Pegula. No sign that they knew each other but still interesting. Thanks for the info.
Reed83HOF Posted January 4, 2017 Author Posted January 4, 2017 Whaley has run three drafts as the GM. Which draft picks from '14, '15, and '16 are you ready to declare as failures? He did run the 13 draft as well by his own admission...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 He did run the 13 draft as well by his own admission... Fair enough, but Nix still set priorities (Franchise QB) and made final calls on the actual draft selections.
nucci Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 That structure has been in place for a couple years now, so that structure you said the Pegulas need is already there if I understand your meaning correctly. I neglected to include the coach, sorry. Ryan reported directly to Pegula not to Whaley. After game 2 Pegula had a meeting with Ryan who then fired Roman. No sign of the GM...I disagree with that structure
Marv's Neighbor Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 Time to go drill another well IMO. Need to burn it at all down... Frack it!
Wayne Arnold Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 The fact that the Bills have so few of their own draft picks on the active roster is evidence of consistently poor drafting. I don't think that's necessarily true. The Bills had to add quite a few players from the outside that fit the Ryans' scheme - Douzable, Alexander, Zach Brown, Ramon Humber, Lerentee McCray, etc. Then a number of internal players went down with injury (Ragland, Gragg, Easley, Aaron Williams, Wood, Henderson) and more often than not those holes are filled with street FA's, and most of the free agents on the roster are depth guys (Worthy, Coleman, Spikes, Corey White, Roberson, Ihedigbo, Sergio Brown, Tate, Bush, Hunter, Groy, Lewis). So that can be misleading.
Reed83HOF Posted January 4, 2017 Author Posted January 4, 2017 That's part of building a team, no? Also, is Whaley expected to get the players Rex wanted? Whaley should be a pro-personnel Director; not a GM... I feel like all of this has been discussed adnasuem on this board by other posters who are not "pro-Whaley". Acts as a GM especially concerning the draft he has not been great with. Yes all GMs miss on some players since there are things that just cannot be measured, I love Sammy and he is my favorite player on this team; trading up for him was a waste and yes missing that 1st rounder next year for where we were as a team was not a smart move. We draft to either fill a need or fill a hole created by a new coaching staff, we do not draft BPA and we do not value positions correctly IMO. I think #BADOL has a great take on what rounds to take which positions btw... 2013 Draft (yes Whaley owns this and took ownership once he became GM, is that the case or not - tough to figure out from the narrative Russ and Berchtold created) 1.) Manuel was way overdrafted, not even in hindsight, most knew that right then 2.) Woods - nice pick 2.) Alsono - correct defensive player from Oregon, not Dion Jordan - nice pick 3.) Goodwin - terrible 4.) Duke Williams - no comment 5.) Meeks - no comment 6.) Dustin Hopkins - wish we kept him 7.) Chriss Gragg - LOL 2014 - Way too many trades for a team short on talent 1.) Sammy - love the player, but not in the position to give up a 4th & 2015's 1st. Plenty of impact players with our original pick 2.) Cyrus - looked okay the last couple games, still not a full time starter possibly should be 3.) Preston Brown - no comment 4.) Cockrell - great on the Steelers 5.) Cyril - no comment 6.) traded for Mike Williams - sigh no comment 7.) Randall Johnson - who? 7.) Seantrel - just a damn shame; I like this guy 2015 1.) Oops 2.) Darby - we will see what year 3 brings; great value last season 3.) Miller - great value 4.) Traded to Browns; Stevie traded basically for Bryce Brown. Great job with our WRs there 5.) Karlos - good value 6.) Tony Steward - known more for his wedding than his football career 6.) O'Leary - role player and depth thus far. WHat you hope for here 7.) Dez Lewis - our new Da'rick 2016 - Still a bit early to tell, but 1.) Lawson - that sure helped Rex and the team this year 2.) Ragland - I really hope he isn't a 2 down player 3.) Washington - our Interim Coach benched him in a meaningless game 4.) Cardale - we will see 5.) Jonathan Williams - to backfill for Karlos 6.) Listenbee - right type of player to draft here 6.) Seymour - right type of player to take here We really have not improved the overall talent of this team by drafting the best players available based on their talent. These picks reek with the stench of filling self-inflicted holes by a team whose front office lacks a cohesive vision for what they want their team to look like. Teams miss out on so many good players because their coaches are tied to schemes, this is one reason why the cook shouldn't always shop. They should be aligned, but talent always needs to win out; in the end that is what truly wins the games (once in a blue moon you will need a Bellicheat* gray area). We draft LBs, RBs and $hitty Safeties, and a few OL/DL sprinkled in. The only difference maker we drafted honestly was Sammy - he is either hurt (not his fault, possibly the QBs though) and he has to ask for the ball to be thrown his way. We spend a lot of money on Clay and never throw to the damn TE, Wouldn't Stevie, Sammy and Woods be better than Woods, Sammy, Salas & Bryce Brown? There is not one impact player besides Sammy in any of these drafts. Shady fell into his lap because Kelly wanted his Duck back. Hughes honestly wasn't a difference maker this year; last year meh - he gave up costly penalties too that negated his good plays.... Our talent on our roster blows.... Fair enough, but Nix still set priorities (Franchise QB) and made final calls on the actual draft selections. I'm not trying to be a turd btw. I don't know how you untangled what is true and what isn't with all of the spin that has gone on. Even if you don't give him the 13 draft; the others still really suck. I'm not sure if it is the scouts or Whaley, but IIRC Whaley was a pro-personnel guy and not really a scout - that is where he is lacking as far as a GM goes. I cannot even really put the Watkins trade fully on Whaley because it simply could have been Russ at that point. Regardless of the names and who did what; the results are just not good enough and not getting it done. Personally I really prefer the GM finds talent and the coaches are scheme diverse and run plays that are suited to the talent of their players - that gives sustainability to the franchise by the virtue that ablue print cannot be copied ot stop a specific scheme and honestly in the end; more often than not the more talented team wins in the long run... By structure, do you mean a layer between Pegula and Whaley; the "football czar" model? I kinda hate the term czar, but there needs to be a strong football person in there who knows how to handle the football side of the house; whether it is a Sr. VP of Football Ops, Team President, or a GM like friggin Ozzie Newsome...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 8, 2017 Posted January 8, 2017 Joe Chenelly @jchenelly 2m2 minutes ago Anothy Lynn has strong chance to be a HC this year. But if he doesn't, he likely stays w/#Bills, where he remains under contract as AHC/OC.
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted January 8, 2017 Posted January 8, 2017 Joe Chenelly @jchenelly 2m2 minutes ago Anothy Lynn has strong chance to be a HC this year. But if he doesn't, he likely stays w/#Bills, where he remains under contract as AHC/OC. Sounds like Sean McDermott, which I would be okay with.
Billschinatown Posted January 8, 2017 Posted January 8, 2017 Sounds like no Lynn .....come on Seattle guy
jamiezzz Posted January 8, 2017 Posted January 8, 2017 Seattle guy would be fine with me. Not a fan of Lynn, unless OC.
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