OldTimer1960 Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Agree that developing QB is most important. Jim Bob Cooter, a crazy trade for Peyton, or McDaniels all check this box (even though McDaniels 1 example is Tebow lol). I think that folks are giving coaches too much credit for "developing" a QB. Now, can a good scheme and play calling as well as being surrounded by talent help a QB to look good? Yes, of course. But I am pretty sure that almost any NFL coach is providing the same information to QBs. QB success is almost innate and, in my opinion, is almost solely a function of a QBs natural ability and work ethic. You could put EJ, Tyrod and any number of guys with the greatest QB "developer" of all time and they still wouldn't become great QBs. On the flip side, does anyone think that Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Dan Marino etc were successful because their coaches "developed" them?
Kirby Jackson Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) Offer Saban whatever it takes.Bill Simmons called Nick a coward for leaving the Dolphins and afraid to take on Billicheck who he calls the greatest coach EVER. This is a great opportunity for Saban to prove to the Dullfins and the Cheats.....He's the real deal.Mama Saban isn't hearing it. He's pretty much been told that this is it for him. Alabama is his last stop. Edited January 7, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Offer Saban whatever it takes.Bill Simmons called Nick a coward for leaving the Dolphins and afraid to take on Billicheck who he calls the greatest coach EVER. This is a great opportunity for Saban to prove to the Dullfins and the Cheats.....He's the real deal.just to stick it to Bill Simmons?
Reed83HOF Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 I'm not really high on anyone we are interviewing...
GunnerBill Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Mama Saban isn't hearing it. He's pretty much been told that this is it for him. Alabama is his last stop. Saban knows he is one of if not the greatest college coach of all time. He is JAG in the NFL. He is never coming back.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Saban knows he is one of if not the greatest college coach of all time. He is JAG in the NFL. He is never coming back.I think that he'd be a great NFL coach. His system works but he'd need a QB. He and Belicheck are the exact same guy. I have a good friend that played for both and he said it's like looking into a mirror (except Saban swears a lot more). The attention to detail, scheme, competiveness, etc... He's like 65 at this point though so I don't see him trying again.
#34fan Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Dave Shaw, HC Stanford... Solid NFL Chops.... Success in coaching stints with the Raiders, and Ravens... This is a guy with NEW IDEAS, that can come in here, and win games... I know the Tree locked him up Long-term in '12.... Maybe now he's in a spot where he can entertain offers....
jeffismagic Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 I think that folks are giving coaches too much credit for "developing" a QB. Now, can a good scheme and play calling as well as being surrounded by talent help a QB to look good? Yes, of course. But I am pretty sure that almost any NFL coach is providing the same information to QBs. QB success is almost innate and, in my opinion, is almost solely a function of a QBs natural ability and work ethic. You could put EJ, Tyrod and any number of guys with the greatest QB "developer" of all time and they still wouldn't become great QBs. On the flip side, does anyone think that Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Dan Marino etc were successful because their coaches "developed" them? There is some truth to good players will be good anywhere but you seriously discount development. We need to draft the right guy AND have the right guy here to mold him. Look at Green Bay and all the QB's they developed there on late rounds.
BaaadThingsMan Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 Dave Shaw, HC Stanford... Solid NFL Chops.... Success in coaching stints with the Raiders, and Ravens... This is a guy with NEW IDEAS, that can come in here, and win games... I know the Tree locked him up Long-term in '12.... Maybe now he's in a spot where he can entertain offers....would you be pissed if he wanted McCaffrey in the 1st?
#34fan Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 would you be pissed if he wanted McCaffrey in the 1st? Shaw would NEVER do that... Like I said, he's had some productive NFL stints... He knows how to recruit... He's doing what he's doing now with HIGH SCHOOL talent... In the pros, he'd be a great scouting counterpart for ANY GM.
OldTimer1960 Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 There is some truth to good players will be good anywhere but you seriously discount development. We need to draft the right guy AND have the right guy here to mold him. Look at Green Bay and all the QB's they developed there on late rounds. I am open to your point, but I think I am missing who the Packer's late round QBs were that were developed. I think the Packers starting QB for the last 24 years has been Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers - neither of whom were late round draft picks.
Boatdrinks Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 There is some truth to good players will be good anywhere but you seriously discount development. We need to draft the right guy AND have the right guy here to mold him. Look at Green Bay and all the QB's they developed there on late rounds. I don't put a lot of stock in development. Especially in today's NFL where coaches don't get much time and QBs are plugged in right away, sink or swim. The Bills have drafted QBs and had highly regarded NFL assistants here to " mold " them. The simple fact is they just haven't had the right ( i e good) QBs. The problem is , college QBs are so hard to judge relative to the NFL. You really don't know who will make it ( translate their skills) and who won't. They all have physical skills and measurables. It's just that in the NFL, the most important traits and abilities in a QB are those that can't be measured. Teams pay executives millions to evaluate these players and draft them, yet their success rate is hit or miss at best. They may as well be predicting the weather. The Bills FO has done a poor job getting a QB, more than anything else. If they had managed to draft Big Ben, or took a flyer on Wilson , or taken Rodgers , the drought wouldn't exist and the entire organization would be seen differently . The team would still have draft busts and mediocrities to go with hits and successes. We fans wouldn't be super analyzing every move and mistake, every statement and FO executive down to the capologist. All because the Bills would have that QB , that all important player above the others to make the Bills a contender. To always give them a chance to win. Possibly due to good luck more than anything else.
jeffismagic Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 I don't put a lot of stock in development. Especially in today's NFL where coaches don't get much time and QBs are plugged in right away, sink or swim. The Bills have drafted QBs and had highly regarded NFL assistants here to " mold " them. The simple fact is they just haven't had the right ( i e good) QBs. The problem is , college QBs are so hard to judge relative to the NFL. You really don't know who will make it ( translate their skills) and who won't. They all have physical skills and measurables. It's just that in the NFL, the most important traits and abilities in a QB are those that can't be measured. Teams pay executives millions to evaluate these players and draft them, yet their success rate is hit or miss at best. They may as well be predicting the weather. The Bills FO has done a poor job getting a QB, more than anything else. If they had managed to draft Big Ben, or took a flyer on Wilson , or taken Rodgers , the drought wouldn't exist and the entire organization would be seen differently . The team would still have draft busts and mediocrities to go with hits and successes. We fans wouldn't be super analyzing every move and mistake, every statement and FO executive down to the capologist. All because the Bills would have that QB , that all important player above the others to make the Bills a contender. To always give them a chance to win. Possibly due to good luck more than anything else. The Bills need to draft and develop a QB. Can a defensive minded coach come in and hire a QB coach, sure. But I want to make sure we select the right QB, create a modern passing offense, develop that QB in THAT system. Bills have not drafted and developed a starting QB in decades. Time to do it. Bring me Jim Bob Cooter and let's do this.
The Process Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 just to stick it to Bill Simmons? As good a reason as the reason for hiring Rex!!!
jeffismagic Posted January 7, 2017 Posted January 7, 2017 I am open to your point, but I think I am missing who the Packer's late round QBs were that were developed. I think the Packers starting QB for the last 24 years has been Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers - neither of whom were late round draft picks. Matt Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, and Mark Brunell all became starting quarterbacks. That's in addition to the fact that they developed Rodgers who was a low 1st round pick that many teams passed on. Sure, he probably would have still been good on the Bills but to pretend the Bills are just as good at things as Green Bay QB development is wishful thinking.
Boatdrinks Posted January 8, 2017 Posted January 8, 2017 Matt Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, and Mark Brunell all became starting quarterbacks. That's in addition to the fact that they developed Rodgers who was a low 1st round pick that many teams passed on. Sure, he probably would have still been good on the Bills but to pretend the Bills are just as good at things as Green Bay QB development is wishful thinking. What Aaron Rodgers does cannot be " developed" . If only it was as easy as having a good coach to get a unique and talented player. That IS wishful thinking for sure.
jeffismagic Posted January 8, 2017 Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) Players matter. Coaching also matters. We will have to agree to disagree there. The NFL game is completely different than the college game for the majority of quarterbacks. I don't want another Nate Hackett here when we draft our next QB. Edited January 8, 2017 by jeffismagic
BuffaloFan68 Posted January 8, 2017 Posted January 8, 2017 One way or another, we need to get Schwartz or Wade back.
BobbyC81 Posted January 8, 2017 Posted January 8, 2017 Offer Saban whatever it takes.Bill Simmons called Nick a coward for leaving the Dolphins and afraid to take on Billicheck who he calls the greatest coach EVER. This is a great opportunity for Saban to prove to the Dullfins and the Cheats.....He's the real deal. In case some don't know, Saban is 65 years old. If Coughlin is getting too old at 70, why isn't Saban, only 5 years younger? Since nobody knows what drives Saban, we don't even know if he wants to coach in the NFL again. He currently has won 5 college football championships with #6 likely on Monday. That would tie him with Bear Bryant. Saban may have more motivation to get that 7th title and be the best.
Boatdrinks Posted January 8, 2017 Posted January 8, 2017 Players matter. Coaching also matters. We will have to agree to disagree there. The NFL game is completely different than the college game for the majority of quarterbacks. I don't want another Nate Hackett here when we draft our next QB. Nate Hackett is not an NFL level Offensive coach. Agreed . But while coaches matter you can't polish a turd. Yes a good offensive system is required but QB coaches get too much credit and probably too much blame. I Hope the Bills can draft a true franchise QB. Something the franchise has only managed to do once in its history.
Recommended Posts