timtebow15 Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 His press conference skills have little to do with setting up a draft board or pro personnel evaluations. Ridiculous to even compare them IMO. They are indicative of his weaknesses. You are correct in that if his draft board and pro personnel evaluations were excellent it wouldn't matter. But their not. The EJ Manuel comment had nothing to do with press conference skills - that was admitting horrible judgment. The salary cap situation has nothing to do with his press conference skills. Has he made a few good moves? Yes. Has he made many more mistakes. Yes!
Fadingpain Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 His press conference skills have little to do with setting up a draft board or pro personnel evaluations. Ridiculous to even compare them IMO. Ha! His "press conference skills" are a direct result of his intelligence level. It's not that high. And that most certainly does impact everything he does in the organization.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 They are indicative of his weaknesses. You are correct in that if his draft board and pro personnel evaluations were excellent it wouldn't matter. But their not. The EJ Manuel comment had nothing to do with press conference skills - that was admitting horrible judgment. The salary cap situation has nothing to do with his press conference skills. Has he made a few good moves? Yes. Has he made many more mistakes. Yes! They're not? He's had misses like all GMs but also plenty of hits. Shady, Zach Brown, and Lorenzo Alexander come immediately to mind. It remains to be seen on his draft choices, but his three drafts show plenty of promise with the players that were selected.
BaaadThingsMan Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Ha! His "press conference skills" are a direct result of his intelligence level. It's not that high. And that most certainly does impact everything he does in the organization. a couple different people on this board who have actually met and spoken to him have said otherwise. Have you met the man?
timtebow15 Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) When your team's gm spouts off statements that are plain shocking... the firestorm should be expected, and it is coming from much more than tbn. Especially from a particularly poorly performing organization that always invites skepticism as to who is making decisions. It is a witch hunt... but the bills happen to be a witch and keep turning seasons into toads. Yes....you can't blame the media for Whaley's comments. Just using the term "not privy" over and over was ridiculous. Of course the media will pile on. One of the biggest concerns is no one seems to trust each other. Lynn says he was informed of the Taylor decision and then Whaley throws him under the bus by saying he was consulted at the end. Obviously Lynn doesn't feel consulted. Someone is lying here and a good GM wouldn't have gone there at all. I suspect Lynn and Whaley won't be getting along shortly. Has Whaley earned the trust of any of the head coaches he's worked with? He's just not a quality GM judging by the various evidence. Edited January 3, 2017 by timtebow15
26CornerBlitz Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Ha! His "press conference skills" are a direct result of his intelligence level. It's not that high. And that most certainly does impact everything he does in the organization. You have a thing for questioning people's intelligence I see. I think you have some unjustified superiority complex going.
timtebow15 Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Ha! His "press conference skills" are a direct result of his intelligence level. It's not that high. And that most certainly does impact everything he does in the organization. You said it much more succinctly than I!
hondo in seattle Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Rex worked for Terry. Rex told him on that one-on-one phone call, according to reports, "If you're going to fire me, fire me now." Terry had probably wanted to wait until the end of the season. He probably intended to warn Russ and Doug in advance. But now that push unexpectedly came to shove, Terry honored Rex's request. So Whaley was not "privy" to that conversation. That conversation was unplanned and no one knew in advance where it would go. Here are the only facts that actually matter. Rex was fired. Even continuity guys like me can see why. Now Whaley is in charge of the new HC search. GMs typically hire HCs so putting Whaley in charge is interesting (given his past role) but nothing especially worrisome. I see no drama here. No sign of dysfunction. I'll pass on all the hand-wringing and Sully-esque whining. Or - at least - I'll wait until Whaley chooses a new HC. Most of what I said/suggested was confirmed in the JW article just posted... As the call came to a close, Pegula said Ryan asked to speak to the owner privately. Pegula said Ryan then directly asked him about his future beyond this season. Pegula said he had no choice but to set things straight with Ryan. "I was asked a point-blank question and based on the discussions we've been having all year, I felt it was better to tell Rex that we were going in a different direction," Pegula said. Ryan recommended Lynn to take over as interim coach for Buffalo's final game. Though Pegula was going to wait to evaluate Ryan's job after the season, he said he probably would've come to the same conclusion now as he did a week ago. Pegula based his decision on his own observations, input he's received from his front-office staff over the course of the season, and also on previous discussions he's had with Ryan regarding addressing the team's struggles. "(Whaley) had input on the basis of conversations throughout the year, what the problems were," Pegula said. "But did Doug ever say, 'Are we firing our coach, are we keeping our coach?' We never had that conversation. I took it upon myself to tell Rex on the basis of conversations about the games and the aftermath of certain games that, hey, things aren't going well." Edited January 3, 2017 by hondo in seattle
26CornerBlitz Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 a couple different people on this board who have actually met and spoken to him have said otherwise. Have you met the man? Graduated from Pitt with a degree in finance and worked on Wall Street as a broker. Sounds like a dummy to me.
BaaadThingsMan Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Graduated from Pitt with a degree in finance and worked on Wall Street as a broker. Sounds like a dummy to me. obviously
BobbyC81 Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 I use words very carefully. When I use the word "proud" I mean "proud", when I use the word "like" I mean "like". So no, I'm not saying I'm proud the team is letting the GM be "in charge" of the HC hire. I'm not even sure that's exactly what's happening - he is leading the search, he says. What I care about is that it's not a "search committee" because if a decision belongs to everyone, no one is accountable for it. If it belongs to Whaley, he's leading it, then he's accountable. Be that as it may, if you do a little research into NFL FO structures, there are a number of different models. I'm not sure there is a clear "normal way" to do things. And this model of GM & coach both reporting to the owner had become a new and popular one. No data as to how effective it is. Seems that New England GM works for Belechick and that works great. Also depends on the people involved. SF Niners had GM Baalke in charge but he was supposedly fired on Saturday and Jed York gave Chip Kelly the opportunity to plead his case for staying on. He failed and York then fired Kelly.
timtebow15 Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 They're not? He's had misses like all GMs but also plenty of hits. Shady, Zach Brown, and Lorenzo Alexander come immediately to mind. It remains to be seen on his draft choices, but his three drafts show plenty of promise with the players that were selected. He's missed on the most important issues...Manuel, trading away picks we can't afford to lose on Watkins (good WRs to be had later in that draft), drafted a 1st round pick this year, told everyone he didn't need surgery and he's out for the year...and who would have picked Ryan for a head coach? Whoever was in on that decision is guilty...the Jets were the only team we could beat soundly and we grab their coach!!! A team with a top 5 D and poor O goes for a D coach who is going to change the scheme! That was a stupid decision from the beginning...you never make a hire based largely on an interview - you make it based on experience and philosophy. There was nothing about Rex Ryan that said he would suddenly become a good coach. We got exactly what we should have know we were getting...a outdated coach who would punt with 4 minutes left when neither defense could stop the others offense all day. You are right - we aren't Browns horrible...we are mediocre and I can't see anything more than that in our future.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 He's missed on the most important issues...Manuel, trading away picks we can't afford to lose on Watkins (good WRs to be had later in that draft), drafted a 1st round pick this year, told everyone he didn't need surgery and he's out for the year...and who would have picked Ryan for a head coach? Whoever was in on that decision is guilty...the Jets were the only team we could beat soundly and we grab their coach!!! A team with a top 5 D and poor O goes for a D coach who is going to change the scheme! That was a stupid decision from the beginning...you never make a hire based largely on an interview - you make it based on experience and philosophy. There was nothing about Rex Ryan that said he would suddenly become a good coach. We got exactly what we should have know we were getting...a outdated coach who would punt with 4 minutes left when neither defense could stop the others offense all day. You are right - we aren't Browns horrible...we are mediocre and I can't see anything more than that in our future. He didn't draft Manuel and Watkins was seen as the top talent in the '14 draft. He drafted Lawson who was seen as a top 10 pick. The injury and subsequent surgery are not career threatening. Ryan wasn't his choice for HC. He'll get his choice for HC this time so from here on out it's on him with no excuses.
hondo in seattle Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I felt all season that the Bills had a mediocre roster coached by a mediocre HC. So, I opined, you either fire both Rex and Doug or neither. As I saw it, both were equally complicity in our ongoing mediocrity. Others disagreed. Many felt Rex was more to blame. Others felt Whaley deserved the lion's share of the culpability. Now, it just doesn't matter. Whaley is picking his HC to lead his roster. If we don't win now, there's no doubt who to hold accountable.
timtebow15 Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Rex worked for Terry. Rex told him on that one-on-one phone call, according to reports, "If you're going to fire me, fire me now." Terry had probably wanted to wait until the end of the season. He probably intended to warn Russ and Doug in advance. But now that push unexpectedly came to shove, Terry honored Rex's request. So Whaley was not "privy" to that conversation. That conversation was unplanned and no one knew in advance where it would go. Here are the only facts that actually matter. Rex was fired. Even continuity guys like me can see why. Now Whaley is in charge of the new HC search. GMs typically hire HCs so putting Whaley in charge is interesting (given his past role) but nothing especially worrisome. I see no drama here. No sign of dysfunction. I'll pass on all the hand-wringing and Sully-esque whining. Or - at least - I'll wait until Whaley chooses a new HC. Now that makes sense. Too bad Whaley didn't just say that! All he had to say was something like "That was a private conversation best left private....the result is that I'm tasked with finding a new coach" instead of all this privy talk and acting like he's not in control of anything. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I felt all season that the Bills had a mediocre roster coached by a mediocre HC. So, I opined, you either fire both Rex and Doug or neither. As I saw it, both were equally complicity in our ongoing mediocrity. Others disagreed. Many felt Rex was more to blame. Others felt Whaley deserved the lion's share of the culpability. Now, it just doesn't matter. Whaley is picking his HC to lead his roster. If we don't win now, there's no doubt who to hold accountable. I agree with you...Whaley is not some dummy and there are worse coaches than Rex Ryan (we've had some). I just don't think they'll ever consistently win or be able to beat solid teams or excellent organizations (I get tired of watching NE).
What a Tuel Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Now that makes sense. Too bad Whaley didn't just say that! All he had to say was something like "That was a private conversation best left private....the result is that I'm tasked with finding a new coach" instead of all this privy talk and acting like he's not in control of anything. Here's the thing. Now that you know this - how does knowing this change anything? Does it make the Bills better? Does it make them less dysfunctional? (beyond your perception) This whole "controversy" in its entirety is the media pretending it's retarded, twisting their head and going "huh??" and refusing to connect the dots. The dysfunction lies in the media's refusal or ability to perceive things. Doug Whaley - "That decision was made by Terry Pegula, and I was not privy to that conversation." Media - "WTF does that mean?!? We can't possibly believe this! What are you hiding? Where is your power? How can this org be so dysfunctional?!?!" Terry Pegula - "Rex asked to speak privately, and that was when I told him it wasn't working out. Whaley and I had conversations about the team, and I took that information and made a decision without final input from Whaley" Media - "Ohhhhhhhhhh, there's still dysfunction by you cutting Whaley out of the decision even though at the beginning of the Rex hire we explicitly and repeatedly asked the reporting structure, and knew verifiably that Rex reported directly to Pegula, and Whaley reported directly to Pegula, Whaley and Rex did not report to each other" Edited January 3, 2017 by What a Tuel
Reed83HOF Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 A few things: 1.) If anyone thinks the Buffalo media is "tough on" or out to get the Bills, watch the Jed York Press Conference in SF from earlier 2.) Step away from the ledge as a fan of this team and take a deep breathe and relax, what did Whaley do to calm any emotions or lay forth any plan on how to get this team into the playoffs, he did say we are not that far away? 3.) When was the last time you saw any press conference with a GM who stated I speak for the owners and then says he knows nothing? 4.) Did this seem like a well-oiled press conference at all? It really seemed very amateurish I know everyone rags on the national media because they don't know the team or anything about us - why would they want to, this was such a $hit show. I really do not see how anyone could defend this...
timtebow15 Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) He didn't draft Manuel and Watkins was seen as the top talent in the '14 draft. He drafted Lawson who was seen as a top 10 pick. The injury and subsequent surgery are not career threatening. Ryan wasn't his choice for HC. He'll get his choice for HC this time so from here on out it's on him with no excuses. How come he gets to walk away from every bad decision? He was in Manuel's camp all along and admitted as much. Most teams had Lawson way lower because of injury...you trade down and draft him later...if he's gone you draft someone who can actually play (when was the last time you saw a team draft a top 10 player they knew wouldn't play due to injury?). There are positions you never (rarely) trade up for because you can get quality later and that is RB, WR, LB, S and TE. It's not like they were going out to get Calvin Johnson. Especially that year as it was deep at the WR position. Edited January 3, 2017 by timtebow15
hondo in seattle Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 His press conference skills have little to do with setting up a draft board or pro personnel evaluations. Ridiculous to even compare them IMO. I've got to agree with this. I've known people who were pretty awful when giving a presentation or interview. But they shined otherwise. Whaley has built the Bills into a .500 (more or less) team. Considering the level of the competition in the NFL, that's not bad. You've got to be pretty bright just to get that far. Is .500 good enough? Of course not. But imagine a lottery where the winner gets to be the GM of a NFL franchise. As smart as we fans like to pretend we are, we're all actually simpletons in the field of talent evaluation. Most fans, given the chance to be a GM, would fail to outperform Matt Millen. I'm willing to judge Whaley on what we actually know - to hell with all the overreached conclusions and speculations. He's had more success with free agency than the draft. So far - without ever before having the opportunity to pick a HC - he's given us an average NFL team. He's no idiot. But so far he hasn't delivered what he needs to deliver.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 How come he gets to walk away from every bad decision? He was in Manuel's camp all along and admitted as much. Most teams had Lawson way lower because of injury...you trade down and draft him later...if he's gone you draft someone who can actually play (when was the last time you saw a team draft a top 10 player they knew wouldn't play due to injury?). There are positions you never (rarely) trade up for because you can get quality later and that is RB, WR, LB, S and TE. It's not like they were going out to get Calvin Johnson. Especially that year as it was deep at the WR position. This is his 4th year as GM and the question is whether he's improved the talent on the roster. IMO he has. If the standard is getting every decision correct, then no GM in the NFL would last very long.
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