Big C Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I actually think Whaley prefers Cardale. I don't know why everyone thinks Whaley wants Manuel to be the starter, if that were the case the Bills would have picked up his 5th year option. They didn't. Playing Manuel is nothing more than evaluation. The Bills will need a backup QB next year if they don't pick up Taylors option. That leaves Cardale and no one else. Look at the FA QB market next year. It's bare. I don't necessarily think that's true. The fifth year option is probably more than he would command in free agency and they might think they can get him on a cheaper prove it type of deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I suspect that they would attempt to re-work the deal to reflect how they view him at the moment (unless they have another plan like acquiring Tony Roma etc.). Whether he agrees or not, that is another question. I dont think Tony Roma would leave his lucrative restaurant business, but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) Carruch is reporting that BOTH sides have moved on. I think Bills will look to renegotiate him. If Tyrod wants to stay or leave, that will be up to him. I suspect that they would attempt to re-work the deal to reflect how they view him at the moment (unless they have another plan like acquiring Tony Roma etc.). Whether he agrees or not, that is another question. If Whaley gets Tyrod to renegotiate a new contract that leaves the Bills a way to cut him cheaply after one more year then Whaley will be the best negotiator in the NFL. And that would be the only reason to renegotiate Tyrod's contract. Tyrod would really, really, really have to love Buffalo to be that generous and take that risk. And that would mean they would probably eat a LOT of Cap money next year with the new contract if they wanted to be able to cut him after one year. Edited December 30, 2016 by PolishDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 We'll know soon enough. Yep....we are getting to the time frame when all is going to be revieled one way or another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) Only two more months of speculation! Edited December 30, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Huh??? and you know this because, he's only won 8 in less than a full season. Totally disagree with this, with better D/ST, this team would be a dangerous playoff opponent. I think some people believe he is an 8-8 type qb who won't elevate your team. He has a couple good games, a couple terrible ones, & a lot of average ones. You put him on Cleveland, they are still the worst team in the NFL. You put him on Denver, they are mostly likely a playoff team. He is about average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Cardale has a more powerful arm, and better mechanics than EJ ever did... Tyrod has a ceiling of 8 wins... and still needs his feet to pull that off... TT had his opportunity to show more...The Smart choice is Cardale going forward. I think it depends on your expectations for 2017. Maybe Jones turns out to be the first-time-starter Prescott story of 2017. Or its a short-term hit but long-term we find our guy. But if they decided to go with Jones the most likely thing would be that it signals a re-start and maybe a 4 or 5 win season. It would mean there are no playoff expectations for next year inside OBD. And the decision isn't in a vacuum either because it affects all the players especially on offense. Do you want to waste away another year of McCoy's tread life? What about Watkins? it will be year 4 for him and after a 5th year option if the Cardale experiment fails I get the impression he's gone unless they franchise tag him year 6. And then what? If they did it my way I'd say they keep Tyrod, upgrade at RT, add a veteran WR, get some help via free agent/draft at safety and OLB, Ragland healthy, Lawson with a full off-season, a new kicker, hit on 3-4 draft picks, and the core returning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) I think some people believe he is an 8-8 type qb who won't elevate your team. He has a couple good games, a couple terrible ones, & a lot of average ones. You put him on Cleveland, they are still the worst team in the NFL. You put him on Denver, they are mostly likely a playoff team. He is about average. I'd say he is good enough to put a team that has an average defense and special teams into the playoffs right now. Of course, he hasn't played with Watkins all year either, and I don't disregard that lightly. He is better than his passing stats. Edited December 30, 2016 by horned dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I'd say he is good enough to put a team that has an average defense and special teams into the playoffs right now. Of course, he hasn't played with Watkins all year either, and I don't disregard that lightly. He is better than his passing stats. I think the Bills defense was closer to average than most people think. The defense wasn't the reason for the Ravens loss when all players were healthy. The offense killed the defense in the 2nd halves in Oakland and Miami with constant 3 and outs. Defense won the Cincy and Jacksonville games. Defense had its flaws but so does Tyrod. He had one of the running attacks and olines so he had plenty of help. Put it this way, I think a guy like Matt Stafford would have us in the playoffs. If Tyrod was on Detroit, they aren't playing GB for a chance to get to the playoffs. They are probably really bad. JMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Are we going to have to live through Cardale next year as the starter? Defense is not good enough to do that. Does not seem like the right recipe for win now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan in MD Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 What does it mean to say that "the Bills" have moved on? Who are "the Bills"? Whaley? The Pegulas? Brandon? What does that even mean? Rex obviously wan't part of that decision. If he's just trying to say that Whaley wrote off Taylor a few weeks ago, that's not really newsworthy. Who calls the shots on this team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I think the Bills defense was closer to average than most people think. The defense wasn't the reason for the Ravens loss when all players were healthy. The offense killed the defense in the 2nd halves in Oakland and Miami with constant 3 and outs. Defense won the Cincy and Jacksonville games. Defense had its flaws but so does Tyrod. He had one of the running attacks and olines so he had plenty of help. Put it this way, I think a guy like Matt Stafford would have us in the playoffs. If Tyrod was on Detroit, they aren't playing GB for a chance to get to the playoffs. They are probably really bad. JMO of course. I'd say they were around the 25th-27th defense in the NFL this year when you take into account their performance/opponents. That's more than some flaws. Giving up THREE separate 200 yard rushers is more than some flaws. The offense was top 10. The defense was just bad and there is no excuse for it with good talent on that side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I think the Bills defense was closer to average than most people think. The defense wasn't the reason for the Ravens loss when all players were healthy. The offense killed the defense in the 2nd halves in Oakland and Miami with constant 3 and outs. Defense won the Cincy and Jacksonville games. Defense had its flaws but so does Tyrod. He had one of the running attacks and olines so he had plenty of help. Put it this way, I think a guy like Matt Stafford would have us in the playoffs. If Tyrod was on Detroit, they aren't playing GB for a chance to get to the playoffs. They are probably really bad. JMO of course. We will have to agree to disagree I guess. I think our offense is much better(Watkins all season) than the defense/ST, which I rank in the 20s. It would have been nice to have some turnovers from the defense, likewise the offense didn't put the D in bad spots with turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Even a broken clock is right twice a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Are we going to have to live through Cardale next year as the starter? Defense is not good enough to do that. Does not seem like the right recipe for win now. Yeah I like Cardale as a prospect but this could be a Losman/Holcomb situation at QB. IMO that year was hands down the most unwatchable season in Bills history and ushered in the dark ages. Up to that point this organization had some dignity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I'd say he is good enough to put a team that has an average defense and special teams into the playoffs right now. Of course, he hasn't played with Watkins all year either, and I don't disregard that lightly. He is better than his passing stats. This offense is very close to being a truly dominant offense in the NFL. I think that is what players are referring to when they say Buffalo is close. I think there is room for upside in both the running (I know - already damn good) and the passing game. And I think we will see it next year - if they get the right coaches and minor personnel changes. The NFL will be like WTF is up with that Bills offense. Of course you have to be able to play defense too. But how could this defense NOT take a step forward next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) He seems to imply that the Bills have already made the decision to move on from TT at the end of the season. @JasonLaCanfora Bills were aware of Tyrod's groin situation for a few weeks. There's strong sense he will need surgery. Decision to move on made weeks ago For the first part, well Duh. He's been listed on the Bills injury report since the week after the Bengals game (leading up to week 12). People just paid it no mind because he wasn't listed as missing any practice. The sports hernia surgery report is actually fairly positive, it's not a slam-dunk but it's better than having something like an avulsion (bone chip completely fractured off the hip, these sometimes have poor blood supply and are problematic to heal). For the second part, I don't believe it. There's a storyline that says Rex was responsible for signing Tyrod and Rex pushed him as a starter, over Cassel or Manual, and was his staunch supporter - may even have forced the issue of the contract extension, which the Bills clearly did not have to do (in the Bills complicated structure, both the coach and the GM have input on player valuation to the business people, who report to Brandon - as I understand it). According to this storyline, it makes sense that with the coach who brought him in and pushed him out of the picture, Tyrod would be the next out the door. On the other hand, the Bills were clearly following a strategy to sign the best vet and the best 2nd tier FA they could get their hands on, and after Chase Daniel signed in Philly, Tyrod was arguably the "class" of that year's bunch. It seemed pretty clear when the three QB were "auditioning" in 2015 TC, Tyrod was the best of a meh bunch and earned his chance. The contrasting theme is, pretty clearly EJ did not have good QB development his first 2 years and there seems to be some question (Lynn's presser, Trent Dilfer's quotes) about the value of what both he and Tyrod have received since - the last thing we'd want is to move on too early from our 1st round draftee and see him go somewhere else and flourish. He was known to be a project when drafted, the question was 1-2 yr project or 3-4 year project. I believe there has been talk about releasing Tyrod in the building - what would the cap implications be, how much cap would we have to sign a different QB in FA or pay a QB we traded for, all that stuff, which LaCanfora's source could interpret as "already done gone on". Historically, the FO has been "penny wise, pound foolish" with QB salary, regarding a reasonable renegotiation of Fitz (for example) as "too much" but paying above market for Kolb and Orton. Tyrod's salary is NOT necessarily a cap problem for the Bills. Per OvertheCap, the Bills had $2.5M of cap space this year to role over and were carrying $19.4M of dead cap! Next year that falls to $1.4M of dead cap, giving the Bills $21M of cap space currently, WITH Tyrods $15.9M 2017 cap hit on the books. Of course, they have significant FA signings, but those can be managed. Bottom line: they can afford Tyrod's cap hit, but they can't afford Tyrod's cap hit AND make a play for a FA signing or trade for a guy with significant $$ owed. It just makes too much sense that the Bills would want to choose a coach and OC and get their input into the QB situation before making a firm decision one way or the other. Lynn seems, from his tone of voice and word choice, to be more favorable towards Tyrod than EJ. If he stays, either as OC or HC, he may well want to keep Tyrod as the guy he knows he can use to produce a workable O. If it's someone like Kyle Shanahan, would he lobby for trying to trade for or sign a more conventional pocket-passer? Who knows? That's why I don't believe the Bills have really made a firm decision. Edited December 30, 2016 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) I actually think Whaley prefers Cardale. I don't know why everyone thinks Whaley wants Manuel to be the starter, if that were the case the Bills would have picked up his 5th year option. They didn't. Playing Manuel is nothing more than evaluation. The Bills will need a backup QB next year if they don't pick up Taylors option. That leaves Cardale and no one else. Look at the FA QB market next year. It's bare. The Bills will have to shop for a QB and draft a QB because IMO, Cardale is going to be the only QB on the team day after the SB. Edited December 30, 2016 by old school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 This offense is very close to being a truly dominant offense in the NFL. I think that is what players are referring to when they say Buffalo is close. I think there is room for upside in both the running (I know - already damn good) and the passing game. And I think we will see it next year - if they get the right coaches and minor personnel changes. The NFL will be like WTF is up with that Bills offense. Of course you have to be able to play defense too. But how could this defense NOT take a step forward next year. Agreed. I think we all wonder, well maybe not all, what we could get with a healthy Watkins. Bringing Taylor back is a must, and that does NOT mean we shouldn't draft a QB if it presents itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) They still had a shot at the playoffs/ You're starting to sound like people speak in Raleigh! All you were truly missing was the "all", as in " ya all" (well more like Roberson county) (from the guy who now lives in Wilmington) so if ya knew about the groin and decided to move on why wouldn't ya play EJ or C Jones? Edited December 30, 2016 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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