Ohiostyle Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 For the benefit of Tyrod... The highest Greg Roman's offense has finished in passing attempts is 29th in the league. The highest in yards is 23rd. However for whatever reason he was in the top 15 in points in 5 of 6 years with a group of limited QBs in Alex Smith, CK, and TT. It's a strange playbook with probably way too many formations - and not enough of a route tree. We don't run slants, RB screens, Bubble screens, swing routes, wheel routes, drag routes... Everyone says its because Tyrod can't throw them, but neither did Smith or Kapernick. I think a lot of that is attributed to Greg Roman not building them into his passing scheme. Now Smith plays in an offense that is predicated on legit all of those types of routes, and he's been very successful. Smith is making a living off of slant routes, 5 yd dig routes.
K-9 Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Smith is making a living off of slant routes, 5 yd dig routes. I think that's his point. He wasn't under Roman.
PolishDave Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 For the benefit of Tyrod... The highest Greg Roman's offense has finished in passing attempts is 29th in the league. The highest in yards is 23rd. However for whatever reason he was in the top 15 in points in 5 of 6 years with a group of limited QBs in Alex Smith, CK, and TT. It's a strange playbook with probably way too many formations - and not enough of a route tree. We don't run slants, RB screens, Bubble screens, swing routes, wheel routes, drag routes... Everyone says its because Tyrod can't throw them, but neither did Smith or Kapernick. I think a lot of that is attributed to Greg Roman not building them into his passing scheme. Ding ding. ding. Winner! I wish more people would pay attention to this. Just look at number of pass attempts compared to the league and it is plain as day. And then look at number of rushing attempts. And then look at those stats over the entirety of Roman's offensive schemes. Plain as freaking day. good post
PromoTheRobot Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Oh no. How will we ever make it 8-8 without him ?8-8 will look like a dream when Mike Glennon is behind center.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Keep ragging on Romans offense, even with the #1 rush offense running the ball all the time, the All22 shows there were WR/TE running free and open all over the field every freaking week on the pass plays that were called and the QB for whatever reason didn't even attempt to get them the ball. The failures in the pass game are solely on the QB this year, nobody else. Ranked 31st because he sucks, whole lot of room for improvement at the QB position. Your kidding yourself if you think other wise. I didn't rag on Roman's offense. I mentioned that he was top 15 in scoring in 5 of 6 years. The one year he wasn't was the year Harbaugh left SF - and the team fell apart. But Alex Smith having a sack rate of 9.9% in 2012 before he was benched is a tad alarming isnt it? It was 9% in 2011 as well (this year its 5.5%). He was completing 70% of his passes at the time. I get that there are people running deep open on some of these plays - but I don't know the name of the play or the concept. You're kidding yourself if you think you do. I also have no idea what he's coached to do in a given situation. His pocket awareness could definitely use improvement however. He's had some really crappy games for us, and had some really good games. I'd like to see an offense that has some smart play designs - bubble screens to guys like sammy and shady. Slant routes to a slot receiver. These are super high % plays that are very easy to read pre-snap. You also keep a team on their heels more so you can punch them harder with the running game. I know if Lynn is the guy - hes going to go full in on a power running scheme. I just hope he includes some plays to get Watkins more involved (to the tune of like 100 catches).
vincec Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 For the benefit of Tyrod... The highest Greg Roman's offense has finished in passing attempts is 29th in the league. The highest in yards is 23rd. However for whatever reason he was in the top 15 in points in 5 of 6 years with a group of limited QBs in Alex Smith, CK, and TT. It's a strange playbook with probably way too many formations - and not enough of a route tree. We don't run slants, RB screens, Bubble screens, swing routes, wheel routes, drag routes... Everyone says its because Tyrod can't throw them, but neither did Smith or Kapernick. I think a lot of that is attributed to Greg Roman not building them into his passing scheme. Now Smith plays in an offense that is predicated on legit all of those types of routes, and he's been very successful. Phil Simms implied this during the Steelers game, basically saying that the Bills passing offense was too simplistic and not practiced enough to perform at a high level. It does make sense. You can only practice so much during the week and they have a very complex running game to work on. OTOH, the goal is winning and SF did come within a few plays of winning the Super Bowl running it so the jury is still out IMO.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Phil Simms implied this during the Steelers game, basically saying that the Bills passing offense was too simplistic and not practiced enough to perform at a high level. It does make sense. You can only practice so much during the week and they have a very complex running game to work on. OTOH, the goal is winning and SF did come within a few plays of winning the Super Bowl running it so the jury is still out IMO. How many rub routes did we run this year in the red zone... on 3rd and 3... anything like that? How many times did we run a screen when it was NOT 3rd and long (and the other team suspects it)? How many bubble screens did we throw to Sammy? I mean - how many plays do we even run under center? Its just in/out/dig/fly. Thats it - no options. No coverage reads. We're completely opposite on offense and defense. Defense is checking and switching coverage, and the offense just calls a play and runs it. There's pros and cons to each, but when you call a bad play, and know its a bad play, and have no way of checking out of it. You're in trouble.
Mark Vader Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 I honestly believed this wouldn't happen, and really it hasn't happened yet. Mostly media speculation. But the signs sure point that way. I didn't think so either. I am very disappointed. If they decide to move on from Tyrod, so be it. We've seen this happen to often. Oh no. How will we ever make it 8-8 without him ? Sarcasm aside, I see your point. I wanted Tyrod to succeed, as I think many Bills fans did. Nothing wrong with that. If the Bills choose to move on from Tyrod Taylor, then they better find a player who can be a legitimate starter in the league. We can not go into next season with E.J. Manuel, Cardale Jones and a rookie QB.
BuffaloFan68 Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 If the Bills let Tyrod walk & sign EJ - I'm fine with it. Overall I feel EJ has a higher QB ceiling. Jmho Go Bills!!!!!
Big Gun Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Phil Simms implied this during the Steelers game, basically saying that the Bills passing offense was too simplistic and not practiced enough to perform at a high level. It does make sense. You can only practice so much during the week and they have a very complex running game to work on. OTOH, the goal is winning and SF did come within a few plays of winning the Super Bowl running it so the jury is still out IMO. In all fairness didn't Lynn basically say they had to, dummy down the playbook and get rid of half of it, let Tyrod go with what is the "easiest matchup pre snap"? That's a dumb !@#$ing QB if that's what needed to be done! No thanks i'll try something else next year.
TANK2 Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) 2 seasons. 26th and 31st in passing. What else do you wannna see ? League record for least turnovers by an offense and a jump from 7 to 6 in total points scored. Would also like to see him get to 600 yards rushing or is he already there? Didnt have time to look that up. Some people cant see the forest through the trees. Huge mistake if they let him go with no legit replacement which I dont see them having by March, April, May, June, July, or August, Sept, Oct, Nov, or Dec for that matter. Hes not perfect but by far the best weve had in a long long time. And now were gonna let him walk. Couldnt be a more Billsy move. A new system on defense that the pothead can understand(see the ball Marcell, go get it) and we got a legit shot at an 11 win season next year with some solid coaching. Edited December 31, 2016 by TANK2
CardinalScotts Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Polian on ESPN right now saying Taylors contract is untenable. would rank #22 on starting qb's Bill- your out of touch with the NFL today Polian which is why the Colts dumped you 7 years ago
PolishDave Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) In all fairness didn't Lynn basically say they had to, dummy down the playbook and get rid of half of it, let Tyrod go with what is the "easiest matchup pre snap"? That's a dumb !@#$ing QB if that's what needed to be done! No thanks i'll try something else next year. Elway's offense when he was QB was simplified. Jim Kelly's offense was dumbed down too. They simplified it and it started kicking ass because it was much easier for everyone to be on the same page and just outplay their opponent. I think they ought to simplify Roman's offense even more. Dummy QB my ass. I used to think you were reasonable. Edited December 31, 2016 by PolishDave
TANK2 Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) would rank #22 on starting qb's Bill- your out of touch with the NFL today Polian which is why the Colts dumped you 7 years agoHave to agree. Dont need this guy coming back to Buffalo in any sort of advisory role.Keep ragging on Romans offense, even with the #1 rush offense running the ball all the time, the All22 shows there were WR/TE running free and open all over the field every freaking week on the pass plays that were called and the QB for whatever reason didn't even attempt to get them the ball. The failures in the pass game are solely on the QB this year, nobody else. Ranked 31st because he sucks, whole lot of room for improvement at the QB position. Your kidding yourself if you think other wise. Could also get alot worse at qb. Dont kid yourself. Watch the Jacksonville game from last year. Edited December 31, 2016 by TANK2
vincec Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 In all fairness didn't Lynn basically say they had to, dummy down the playbook and get rid of half of it, let Tyrod go with what is the "easiest matchup pre snap"? That's a dumb !@#$ing QB if that's what needed to be done! No thanks i'll try something else next year. Lynn said that they can't work on the issues Tyrod has during the season, because they're trying to win. So they cater the offense to what the players do well and don't do the other things much. However, he seemed optimistic about the possibility of Tyrod developing into a more complete and consistent passer in the offseason.
Big Gun Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Elway's offense when he was QB was simplified. Jim Kelly's offense was dumbed down too. They simplified it and it started kicking ass because it was much easier for everyone to be on the same page and just outplay their opponent. I think they ought to simplify Roman's offense even more. Dummy QB my ass. I used to think you were reasonable. Why because the dumb QB you support still can't understand it? I guess similar minds think alike eh!
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) In all fairness didn't Lynn basically say they had to, dummy down the playbook and get rid of half of it, let Tyrod go with what is the "easiest matchup pre snap"? That's a dumb !@#$ing QB if that's what needed to be done! No thanks i'll try something else next year. Elway's offense when he was QB was simplified. Jim Kelly's offense was dumbed down too. They simplified it and it started kicking ass because it was much easier for everyone to be on the same page and just outplay their opponent. I think they ought to simplify Roman's offense even more. Dummy QB my ass. I used to think you were reasonable. I don't think it's particularly complex from a route concept perspective. Lynn said instead of preparing 40-50 plays per week they would prepare 20-30, and utilize them out of multiple formations. The issue was lining up in formation, and getting to the line quicker so we could execute pre-snap motions. This was as much for the running game as the passing game. Play calls were coming in too late, and our team was having issues lining up - causing penalties and miscommunication. Edited December 31, 2016 by dneveu
colin Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 So did anyone besides me think rex wasnt fired until the d took a sheet vs miami? Given that they didn't bench tyrod then, even with the injury clause, i figure miami was the last shot for rex to save his butt, and 200 yards to ajai, and losing to the back up, he was cooked.
VanCity Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Personally, I think something like ANY/A from Profootball reference is a better indicator of production. Just measuring total yards doesn't really tell you everything, since two equally talented QBs could be ranked different depending on play calling. ANY/A rankings have Tyrod at 9th and 19th, averaging out to just about average. Which, the eye test tells me lines up. This year is down, imo, partially due to missing WRs for multiple games, especially deep threats. Do I think Tyrod is a guy who can carry a bad defense? No. Do I think he is a guy that can win with an average to good defense? Yes. We have talent on the defensive side (at least I think so). If our new DC can convince the FO that the defense will improve, I could see Tyrod coming back. I am on board 100% with this philosophy. Look at the available options. Could Tyrod have us in the playoffs had our defense been pass-able this season? Absolutely. The O scored a lot of points and he, despite his passing numbers, was a big part of that. The Bills lost when he had to try and come back from deficits every week and he is just not the Stafford/Ryan/Rodgers kinda QB that can pass a squad back into the game, but let's not pretend that he didn't have the O moving the chains in a lot of games with his legs. He's a unique proposition. Not the answer, but not the true question on this team. That lies 100% on the defense.
yungmack Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Oh no. How will we ever make it 8-8 without him ?With even a top half of the league D, this year's record would have been at least 10 wins. Would that be enough success for you to want Taylor back? If not, what would it take for you and others of your ilk to finally realize that, at least this year, the problem was the D, not the O? Not claiming he'll ever attain "greatness," just asking for reality-based judgments.
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